The Big Picture: Off Target - Don't Censor Me Part 2

MovieBob

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Off Target - Don't Censor Me Part 2

Is Target censoring Grand Theft Auto?

Watch Video
 

remnant_phoenix

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Am I really gonna have my first first?

The usual misunderstanding of what censorship is and what it means by a mass of people?

Yeah... Not surprised.

EDIT: Changed "gaming culture" to "a mass of people." I didn't intentionally mean to single out gamers for this sort of misunderstanding. We just happened to be talking about a video game and so assigning this to "gaming culture" just popped out.
 

Rawbeard

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Even game news outlets I held in somewhat high esteem had "GTA V banned in Australia" headlines. Clickbait, or idiocy, I don't care, it was stupid. Bah.
 

Evonisia

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Isn't this whole Target business just a massively scaled down, highly inefficient version of what happened to the Dixie Chicks as brought up in the first Don't Censor Me video?
 

Cranyx

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Yes you can kill hookers in GTA, but do you know who else you kill? Everyone. You're not incentivized to go out and murder prostitutes anymore than you are to cause other types of general mayhem and destruction. Should Prostitutes be the one character group in GTA whom you can't kill, or is Bob taking the stance that Grand Theft Auto should remove the violence from its games?
 

lord.jeff

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So it's like the past dozen gaming controversies that have come around, every sides an idiot that's just looking to jump into a fight and gaming news outlets exaggerated the story because idiots are easy to click bait.
 

Sigmund Av Volsung

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Dec 11, 2009
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Does anyone really have to point out to Bob that GTA is a satire?

It takes all facets of society, and aggrandises them to a ridiculous level so that they can be examined in real life.

That and the game is notably misanthropic. It doesn't just dehumanise sex workers, it dehumanises everyone. Just because a story is complex doesn't mean it has to be moral >.>
 

Jman1236

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So your not selling this game? Fine I'll go across the street to gamestop, or god forbid walmart, they'll gladly take my money and future business from me unlike you.
 

JoJo

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Cranyx said:
Yes you can kill hookers in GTA, but do you know who else you kill? Everyone. You're not incentivized to go out and murder prostitutes anymore than you are to cause other types of general mayhem and destruction. Should Prostitutes be the one character group in GTA whom you can't kill, or is Bob taking the stance that Grand Theft Auto should remove the violence from its games?
Yeah, that's what I was about to say. I don't really care what Target does on the other side of the world to me and I don't believe many other people do either, I think the main grievance was that the petition writers were reheating the same hyperbolic "GTA is a psychopath-training simulator encourages players to kill prostitutes!" nonsense that the tabloids have been peddling for the last decade. There certainly are ways GTA could improve in representing female characters, but it's not helping when people exaggerate.
 

KazeAizen

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Cranyx said:
Yes you can kill hookers in GTA, but do you know who else you kill? Everyone. You're not incentivized to go out and murder prostitutes anymore than you are to cause other types of general mayhem and destruction. Should Prostitutes be the one character group in GTA whom you can't kill, or is Bob taking the stance that Grand Theft Auto should remove the violence from its games?
Having never played the games I just need to ask one question. Does killing other ordinary citizens grant you any boon in the game? Do they do anything for you? If not then there might be something to it. Bob isn't taking the stance that GTA should remove all violence but when a GTA game comes out what is the thing the news media pretty much always mentions? The fact that you can have sex with a hooker to restore your health and then beat her to death and take your money back. At this point, by the description he gave of 4 and 5, it does seem kinda stupid to keep it in there. There are better ways to have a mechanic like that that maybe doesn't involve the potential of killing the person. Its also seen as just more dehumanizing of that particular group of people.
 

MaddKossack115

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Cranyx said:
Yes you can kill hookers in GTA, but do you know who else you kill? Everyone. You're not incentivized to go out and murder prostitutes anymore than you are to cause other types of general mayhem and destruction. Should Prostitutes be the one character group in GTA whom you can't kill, or is Bob taking the stance that Grand Theft Auto should remove the violence from its games?
Well, I think the issue is less "oh, you shouldn't kill them", and more "hey, instead of using hookers as an excuse to put 'sex' in the game, perhaps we should point out the ways that being a prostitute is NOT good for the prostitute at all? Y'know, with abusive pimps, even more abusive 'customers', and getting treated like crap by everybody in society for something they were likely forced into, that sort of thing?" I don't think that sex workers should be "immune" when you suddenly whip out an assault rifle and go on a GTA-style Rampage, but it's probably best not to trivialize their portrayals to "oh these girls are just SO happy to take your money and give you sex", and just ignore all the abuse they falsely receive from virtually every part of society, especially when Rockstar is trying to give the characters of the "GTA HD-era" more meaningful depth and story than the "personified Ids" of the "GTA 3D-era".

And if you REALLY need to put optional sex in the GTA games, I personally think that the "girlfriend dating system" of GTA IV may be worth taking another swing at. True, the mechanics should be refined so the player isn't constantly nagged to drag their girls on dates every few minutes or so, but it would edge off the "sex workers as shameless whores for the sole benefit of the player" angle at least.
 

McKitten

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So, is this going to be the repeat of "Censorship" doesn't mean what most people mean with it OR what the technical definition is, but only what Moviebob, the authority on definitions of all kind says it should mean?
Yeah, i usually like The Big Picture, but the last one on this topic was so terribly i'm kinda hesitant to watch this one.
 

Chaos999

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Cranyx said:
Yes you can kill hookers in GTA, but do you know who else you kill? Everyone. You're not incentivized to go out and murder prostitutes anymore than you are to cause other types of general mayhem and destruction. Should Prostitutes be the one character group in GTA whom you can't kill, or is Bob taking the stance that
Grand Theft Auto should remove the violence from its games?
Damn those ninjas. There is always someone who has the same arguments as me.

But yes these were my first thoughts as well.
 

MahouSniper

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Once again Bob, I feel the need to remind you that censorship does not need to be from a government. Merriam-Webster defines "censor" as "to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable; also: to suppress or delete as objectionable" That is exactly what Target did. Now, was this censorship particularly impactful or relevant? No. Is Target allowed to censor whatever message they don't want because they are a private store? Yes. Is it still censorship when they ban an idea from being delivered through their platform? Yes it is.

I agree with you on how stupid this whole thing is, but it is still censorship even if it's irrelevant anyways.
 

Amaror

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KazeAizen said:
Cranyx said:
Yes you can kill hookers in GTA, but do you know who else you kill? Everyone. You're not incentivized to go out and murder prostitutes anymore than you are to cause other types of general mayhem and destruction. Should Prostitutes be the one character group in GTA whom you can't kill, or is Bob taking the stance that Grand Theft Auto should remove the violence from its games?
Having never played the games I just need to ask one question. Does killing other ordinary citizens grant you any boon in the game? Do they do anything for you? If not then there might be something to it. Bob isn't taking the stance that GTA should remove all violence but when a GTA game comes out what is the thing the news media pretty much always mentions? The fact that you can have sex with a hooker to restore your health and then beat her to death and take your money back. At this point, by the description he gave of 4 and 5, it does seem kinda stupid to keep it in there. There are better ways to have a mechanic like that that maybe doesn't involve the potential of killing the person. Its also seen as just more dehumanizing of that particular group of people.
Killing citizens gives a tiny amount of money. The amount is always tiny. Even when you kill a sex worker you just gave money to have sex with you, you will generally get a lot less money from it then you spent before. Whether sex gives you health, i am not sure but i don't think it does, though don't quote me on that.
So in the end the game doesn't incentivise killing sex workers more than any other person in the game.
 

Burnouts3s3

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Here's where I come from. Don't most of the 'hardcore' crowd that wants GTA usually pirate it through torrents, CD cracks or emulators anyway? If so, why are people fighting this so much when you can just download the game without paying for it.

And like Bob said, it's a year old game you can purchase from other outlets. As for the sex worker thing, I think Rockstar is just appealing to their demographic and what they want. Money speaks the most, devs and publishers give what the audience wants.
 

WhiteNachos

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KazeAizen said:
Cranyx said:
Yes you can kill hookers in GTA, but do you know who else you kill? Everyone. You're not incentivized to go out and murder prostitutes anymore than you are to cause other types of general mayhem and destruction. Should Prostitutes be the one character group in GTA whom you can't kill, or is Bob taking the stance that Grand Theft Auto should remove the violence from its games?
Having never played the games I just need to ask one question. Does killing other ordinary citizens grant you any boon in the game? Do they do anything for you?
When you kill a civilian sometimes they'll drop cash. The idea being that it's the money they had on their person. Relatively speaking it's petty cash. I'd argue that there's more benefit to killing cops, at least early on in the game since they always drop a gun. Then again it's significantly harder to escape the cops if you kill a cop vs. a regular civilian.

KazeAizen said:
If not then there might be something to it. Bob isn't taking the stance that GTA should remove all violence but when a GTA game comes out what is the thing the news media pretty much always mentions? The fact that you can have sex with a hooker to restore your health and then beat her to death and take your money back.
Because the news loves to sensationalize. You can have sex with her to restore your health and leave it at that, or you can kill her immediately or you can not interact with them.
 

Shadowstar38

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KazeAizen said:
Cranyx said:
Yes you can kill hookers in GTA, but do you know who else you kill? Everyone. You're not incentivized to go out and murder prostitutes anymore than you are to cause other types of general mayhem and destruction. Should Prostitutes be the one character group in GTA whom you can't kill, or is Bob taking the stance that Grand Theft Auto should remove the violence from its games?
Having never played the games I just need to ask one question. Does killing other ordinary citizens grant you any boon in the game? Do they do anything for you? If not then there might be something to it. Bob isn't taking the stance that GTA should remove all violence but when a GTA game comes out what is the thing the news media pretty much always mentions? The fact that you can have sex with a hooker to restore your health and then beat her to death and take your money back. At this point, by the description he gave of 4 and 5, it does seem kinda stupid to keep it in there. There are better ways to have a mechanic like that that maybe doesn't involve the potential of killing the person. Its also seen as just more dehumanizing of that particular group of people.
You can buy food from a hotdog vendor to increase your health and kill him to get the money back as well. Same mechanic, different dressing. And killing people in general gives you money drops and sometimes weapons and ammo.
 

Mythmaker

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Bob, please stop talking about games. I get nothing out of listening to you talk about games but a headache.

Forget your lumping every critic of this decision into the same disdained category. Ignore your refusal to comment on the actual merit of the argument presented in the petition. Don't even think about the kind of precedent this sets in a country where the status of this sort of media is already so precarious.

What bothers me most is that, when it comes to games, it doesn't look like you can actually SEE the "Big Picture."
 

Rabidkitten

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Can you boot up GTA and from the start of the game literally attempt to be a normal person. Ignore all the missions, kill no one, go on hikes, get your hair cut, or whatever. Be a normal ass person and not participate in any of the actual violence. Never progress the plot, but instead just be the first character and muck around the world map till the end of time?