Hell, if every government on earth stopped spending insane amounts of money on national defence, not only could we end world hunger, but there would be plenty left for space exploration.
The Big Picture: Once Upon a Time in The Future
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
The S.S. Mountain Dew?
Bob, I dislike trolling but, you are an idiot. Yeah, we should focus more on space travel, simply because if we don't then we'll die here on this planet of stagnation. But this childish tantrum isn't going to change anything, if you want to change something, then get off your ass and do something about it.
Lots of people look at the escapist, so I'm sure you were figuring, hey, if I talk about how I feel here then lots of people will see it, thereby spreading the word. That would be wonderful. If you didn't sound like a whiny fourteen year old prepubescent who just found out that he wasn't allowed to stare at boobs during conversation.
Grow up, and present your argument with the right balance of passion and creativity; or, failing that, logically and sensibly. Not this idiotic rant.
Bob, I dislike trolling but, you are an idiot. Yeah, we should focus more on space travel, simply because if we don't then we'll die here on this planet of stagnation. But this childish tantrum isn't going to change anything, if you want to change something, then get off your ass and do something about it.
Lots of people look at the escapist, so I'm sure you were figuring, hey, if I talk about how I feel here then lots of people will see it, thereby spreading the word. That would be wonderful. If you didn't sound like a whiny fourteen year old prepubescent who just found out that he wasn't allowed to stare at boobs during conversation.
Grow up, and present your argument with the right balance of passion and creativity; or, failing that, logically and sensibly. Not this idiotic rant.
Actually, the european space agency has commited enourmous funding towards a manned mars mission by 2025
I do feel a little sad that manned space flight is sounding its death-kneel. However, if the last twenty some odd years have taught me anything MovieBob (or is it BigPictureBob now?) it's that humanity does NOT deserve to see what wonders lie elsewhere in the universe. Not only do all those other problems still exist, they actually seem to be getting WORSE.
As such, if I made first contact? I would probably tell the aliens to come back after the radiation from World War III dies down and maybe they'll find some intelligent non-selfdestruvtive lifeforms worth talking to.
As such, if I made first contact? I would probably tell the aliens to come back after the radiation from World War III dies down and maybe they'll find some intelligent non-selfdestruvtive lifeforms worth talking to.
And? Read the rest of the post, maybe.Don Reba said:
Maybe I oughtn't have written 'one word', but that's pretty nit-picky. The point is that private firms aren't the blight the video rant was making them out to be. They have the potential to do things far greater than NASA was even planning to do.
The mention of Skylon's just an address to the space shuttle and the perceived consequences of the supposed lack of replacement and, as others have said, the European Space Agency's aiming to go to Mars by 2025. Indeed, the Dragon orbiter is, in theory and with further development, capable of doing everything Constellation's orbiter could have done - and it's further along in development, too. Combine that with Skylon, or whatever else among the various private projects wins out, maybe? There you go, theoretically capable of reaching Mars. Just like Constellation.
The Constellation program was just as viable as the private start-ups. And besides that, I forgot to mention that the 'S.S. Mountain Dew' argument fundamentally misunderstood (or deliberately mis-portrayed) the role of the private firms. They don't build and launch their own spacecraft, they compete for and perform work on behalf of government space agencies, often using tools of their own design - be those tools factories, R&D staff, or spacecraft.
Even before private firms were trying to build their own vessels, they were doing this sort of thing - I hope you don't believe NASA built all the different parts of the shuttle fleet themselves. Of course that meant the shuttles were COVERED with advertising for those firms and.. oh wait.
I'd like to write a novel about how I agree, add some more points and in general just discuss what you took up... buuuuut I'm a little bit short on time and frankly I'm not at my minds best right now (No, no alcohol, I'm a sobersit, just a bit tired) so all I'm gonna say is, I agree on all the points and I'd do the same.
Seriously, how long would peace actually hold? And yes, I'm a "bad guy" too, I prefer spacefaring instead of feeding kids in farawayistan, sorry for that.
Seriously, how long would peace actually hold? And yes, I'm a "bad guy" too, I prefer spacefaring instead of feeding kids in farawayistan, sorry for that.
People are all fairly unanimous in the 'one day we'll live in space' thing. I bet if you asked any child what life will be like in the future they'll say 2 things: Flying Cars and Living in Space. So if we're all so damned sure that we will get there as a species why is no-one making the actual effort to do it? It's like me saying 'I'm going to have a 6-pack in the near future' but never getting around to the actual sit-ups part of it.
no I wouldnt say unethical, and not even eye for an eye. he is talking about "himself", that he is so bad, that he wont change, because hes bad. he is society. thats why his nihilistic way is in the far beginning illogical.dark-amon said:
well the americans were the first to land on the moon, and they won in that race. (it doesent mean that the moon belongs to the americans
)but they have other things they want to concentrate on. humanity hasnt shown him kindness, ha. and now is the time humanity wants to be kind, but he doesent want them to, because space travel is way too cool.well, and if the americans want to stay a part of the space traveling programm, they will have to contribute. but they dont have to be the ones who make it happen. there are other countries who could take the lead (like he said). the main thing is that they have to work together, so the americans wont lose any new information.
Well I can cure world hunger pretty easily, all the world has to do is give up eating beef, the feed that goes to cows could easily feed the world. But it involves us actually giving something up to solve a problem and anyone who tries to push for that is commiting political suicide, so they just rag on NASA.
Anyways guys don't worry about it, in 2012 when the interdiminsional computer aliens phase in from dimension 10 and appoint me manager of the universe, I'll have all the reality TV douchebags fired into the sun. Then we can get down to the only true business; SCIENCE!
Anyways guys don't worry about it, in 2012 when the interdiminsional computer aliens phase in from dimension 10 and appoint me manager of the universe, I'll have all the reality TV douchebags fired into the sun. Then we can get down to the only true business; SCIENCE!
What I find funny is that Bob is (rightfully) crying over this, yet he didn't get the launch date for Discovery right [http://www.nasa.gov/missions/highlights/schedule.html]. It's probably because I live in Florida and have a sister trying to go see it, but the beginning of the movie made me double-check and make sure I didn't hallucinate the beginning of November.
Anyway, Bob, the reason why a lot of people aren't concerned over this anymore? It's old news. Old hat. The controversy has come, and people are done complaining about it, except for the people directly affected by it--employees for NASA, people who calculate their payroll (like my aunt), and students going into the aerospace sector. Everyone else has moved on because it has no short-term consequences and the long-term goals aren't readily apparent nor direly needed. The controversy is a dead horse, Bob, and you're only poking it with sticks.
Anyway, Bob, the reason why a lot of people aren't concerned over this anymore? It's old news. Old hat. The controversy has come, and people are done complaining about it, except for the people directly affected by it--employees for NASA, people who calculate their payroll (like my aunt), and students going into the aerospace sector. Everyone else has moved on because it has no short-term consequences and the long-term goals aren't readily apparent nor direly needed. The controversy is a dead horse, Bob, and you're only poking it with sticks.
I don't know if colonising the moon or Mars is such a good idea with humanity in it's current social state. I don't think MovieBob was too far off the mark when he made reference to the "USS Mountain Dew". The last thing we want is a corporate entity making planetfall first and effectively claiming ownership and then charging insane amounts for anyone who turns up subsequent. The idea of individual nations claiming them isn't much better, and will likely create new tensions here. Best would be some kind of UN-like organisation developing and promoting space travel and extra-terrestrial colonisation.
If the human race is going to go into space, we need to get over our own petty smeg and realise the only way to face the final fronter is together.
If the human race is going to go into space, we need to get over our own petty smeg and realise the only way to face the final fronter is together.
Well you held off the insult as long as you could.Emergent System said:
If I make a statement I stand by it. Human accomplishment is... well I probably should have just said "getting boring" for clarity's sake. Your first point seems to suggest you didn't read the post in its entirety because I addressed our longer lifespans. Look, I do think that longer lifespans is great - moreso if we knew what to do with them. What's one of the western world's greatest concern right now? Our aging population. We've got a fuck-load of baby-boomers on the doorstep of superannuation and we're realising that, holy Hell, they're going to live a lot longer and we don't know if the rest of us have the resources to cater for them. Also longer lifespans have seen an increase of degenerative diseases like Alzheimers because while we're living longer our bodies are still giving out and we haven't quite got to addressing that one yet. Like I said, living to 120 would be great if 40 of those years weren't spent being tended to by a nurse. Have you ever worked in a hospital? Most resources are spent keeping alive people who should have died a long time ago. While you hold our increased lifespan up as an accomplishment I see it as a mixed blessing at best. I get excited when I hear about medical breakthroughs but that's coupled with the realisation that these things get tied up in trials and red tape and the great majority of them, never see the light of day outside a laboratory. Maybe I'm just a pessimist.
I don't quite get your point on changing culture so I'll refrain from going into too much detail because I've probably misinterpreted you. Consider this a side point in that case: I can see technological advancements, I know that many of us carry around touch-screen communication devices, I know that games have near-to-life graphics and physics and some advances with movies would blow the mind of any film maker as recently as twenty years ago. I see wars that can be fought by remote control. But really? Is that all we're good at? New gimmicky electronic devices, entertainment and more efficient ways to kill each other? It's getting a bit dull, I want something we can really get behind and space travel is a biggie. And again like I said, the potential is there, we have reached a point where we can do some bloody exciting things - but we're not. Why? Because the slight improvements to the next iPhone will make more money. God dammit humanity, you used to be cool. What happened to funding missions to climb unclimbable mountains or races to the moon?
(Every now and then there's a sliver of light. That Skylon thing looks interesting but what's the bet the project will collapse before anything comes of it. I'm such a pessimist. :/)
Obviously our opinions differ on what defines accomplishment. Really though, am I so wrong to say that things are getting a bit dull or am I just unappreciative of the fact that I live in the future?
I don't believe my opinions are daft or my name is ironic but I do agree that it can seem that way.
Damn it Bob, This is flamebait again.
Humanity hasn't shown you any kindness? Buddy thats downright offensive, I dont know how much of the world you've seen but seriously you sound out of touch.
And praising China and India for wanting to go to the moon is kind of dodgy too, As someone who lives in one and has been to the other I can tell you that both countries shouldn't even be thinking about the subject while so many of their people suffer every day.
Besides you're being way too pessimistic. Sure the bloated government space program that was established as part of a cold war pissing contest is gone, but at the same time we've still got scientists doing amazing things that will help us get to Mars one day (antimatter anyone?).
Space travel will happen when it happens (when its rewards and benefits outweigh its costs and risks), it doesn't need to be pushed by governments who's only real motivation for space exploration is showboating or (god forbid) conquest.
Humanity hasn't shown you any kindness? Buddy thats downright offensive, I dont know how much of the world you've seen but seriously you sound out of touch.
And praising China and India for wanting to go to the moon is kind of dodgy too, As someone who lives in one and has been to the other I can tell you that both countries shouldn't even be thinking about the subject while so many of their people suffer every day.
Besides you're being way too pessimistic. Sure the bloated government space program that was established as part of a cold war pissing contest is gone, but at the same time we've still got scientists doing amazing things that will help us get to Mars one day (antimatter anyone?).
Space travel will happen when it happens (when its rewards and benefits outweigh its costs and risks), it doesn't need to be pushed by governments who's only real motivation for space exploration is showboating or (god forbid) conquest.
I disagree, Bob, not because I feel space travel is unimportant, but because I feel it is not the next level of human evolution. The next level of human evolution is in cybernetic and genetic manipulation and enhancement, and we've made some huge strides in the past 10 years (see the "Korea makes glow in the dark kittens" story of your choice). Space travel is a means to an end, and one we'll persue when we need the space. But currently, enhancing what it is and what it means to BE human is whats important.
Moreover, I feel we as a species are finally struggling through the last testosterone enthused throws of puberty. We're confronted by consumerism and wastefulness, yes, but we're having a logical debate about it now. The vast majority of opinions, reguardless of social strata, is that waste and overpopulation and tyranny and opression and genocide and all that other stuff is BAD. Compare that to the world a hundred years ago! In general humanity is SLOWLY becoming more culturally and philsophically evolved and we consider more complex issues. We're still not mature, and the vast majority of us are mouthbreathing overweight followers (I certainly am one), but enough of us AREN'T that they're starting to become audible over the drone of the self absorbed, vapid masses concerned only with feeding themselves and surviving to the next day.
We may not see these things in our lifetimes, but I think in our grandchildrens lifetimes we will see what it fundamentally means to be human change, or the concept of governments as we know them change.
Moreover, I feel we as a species are finally struggling through the last testosterone enthused throws of puberty. We're confronted by consumerism and wastefulness, yes, but we're having a logical debate about it now. The vast majority of opinions, reguardless of social strata, is that waste and overpopulation and tyranny and opression and genocide and all that other stuff is BAD. Compare that to the world a hundred years ago! In general humanity is SLOWLY becoming more culturally and philsophically evolved and we consider more complex issues. We're still not mature, and the vast majority of us are mouthbreathing overweight followers (I certainly am one), but enough of us AREN'T that they're starting to become audible over the drone of the self absorbed, vapid masses concerned only with feeding themselves and surviving to the next day.
We may not see these things in our lifetimes, but I think in our grandchildrens lifetimes we will see what it fundamentally means to be human change, or the concept of governments as we know them change.
& the extra 40 years brings massive issues in mordibity & the consumate cost of that morbity. In addition it allows extra people to be born who consume more resources. Individuals in America and the UK consume x10 to x100 times more resources than the rest of the world who exist in disease, poverty & squalor. They replace phones on a yearly basis burning through huge quantities of resources as a gesture of social oneupmanship rather than neccesity.Emergent System said:
We continue to wage wars over valueless territory/religion/ideaologies. Governments are opaque and distract the populace with mindless consumerism and distractions. No effort is made for universal education and tolerance.
Where exactly are your advances in civilzation? Oh wait are you a child who measures a civilzations accomplishements in technological innovation that are intrinsically irrelevant and will be obselete in a short period? Civilization is not technology it is attitudes. Read a book.
A lot of the cancellation of the shuttle program is owed to NASA beginning to run low on Plutonium 238, which is the radioactive Macguffin needed to launch a shuttle. All of ours came from Russia, who had it in excess after the Cold War. As it is, we don't really have the facilities or resources to make it. It would take about 5-10 years until we did, assuming we started now with prime funding, which...ha. Yeah.
The question that had to be asked in THAT case is: what has the shuttle program contributed to scientific advancement lately? The answer? ...not a whole hell of a lot. So while it may be a shot to my starry-eyed nostalgia and yours, I'd much rather invest my emotional energy looking forward to unmanned exploration that exceeds our own abilities, terraforming, modular moon-lander bases, etc.
And besides, the privatization of space exploration is the best thing that could happen for it.
Be at peace! The future is bright!
The question that had to be asked in THAT case is: what has the shuttle program contributed to scientific advancement lately? The answer? ...not a whole hell of a lot. So while it may be a shot to my starry-eyed nostalgia and yours, I'd much rather invest my emotional energy looking forward to unmanned exploration that exceeds our own abilities, terraforming, modular moon-lander bases, etc.
And besides, the privatization of space exploration is the best thing that could happen for it.
Be at peace! The future is bright!