So again "yada yada yada, DC comics bad, Marvel Awesome" huh?. meh I knew kind of expected it, the only reason why I don't care is because, well i like she-hulk even when I'm not a huge fan of marvel but meh, bob should change his show name to marvel time or something like that, it jus seems more fit.
The Big Picture: She-Hulk Shaming
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
Mave said:
Marvel movies are really killing at the box office and DC hasn't had a hit since the dark knight. Talking about superhero movies in any sort of business context is discussing why DC hasn't been able to get it's act together.
She-Hulk is a cool character. But She-Hulk alone can't carry a movie. Why? Because her most interesting fights are usually as a part of a team. And the villains she fights solo usually are not that interesting on their own.
Can She-Hulk be a great addition to the next Hulk movie sure. Can she be a great supporting character in the Avengers, or Agents of Shield show? Yeah. But her having a movie on her own without a good setup from a hulk movie? I don't see that working well. And if She-Hulk did make it to the silver screen do not expect that promiscuous nature to follow her.
Can She-Hulk be a great addition to the next Hulk movie sure. Can she be a great supporting character in the Avengers, or Agents of Shield show? Yeah. But her having a movie on her own without a good setup from a hulk movie? I don't see that working well. And if She-Hulk did make it to the silver screen do not expect that promiscuous nature to follow her.
As opposed to, what, Ant-Man and his widely known cast of... um... I don't know, Ultron (who isn't even fighting Ant-Man). Guardians of the Galaxy are going off against Ronan the Accuser. Iron Man faced off against Iron Monger and Whiplash and still made serious bank.Lex Darko said:
I could easily see She-Hulk and Titania going at it.
However, I instead see her co-STARRING in a HULKS (plural) movie. Not as a supporting cast-member (like Falcon was in Captain America), but as a co-lead with just as much screen time as her male counterpart.
I mean, develop them both that way. Comic origin has her created when Bruce saves her life with an emergency blood transfusion... so he'd have to be involved anyway. Compare and contrast the two different hulks (one wild with rage, the other calm and intelligent). You could even go all out and have Hulk on a rampage for some reason, and only She-Hulk can both fight him off and calm him back down (due city-wide destruction). She could even be the Avengers' personal speed-dial lawyer when property damage and lawsuits start flying.
What makes a female character strong, complex, or independent? I ask this question because I don't know the answer, neither does the internet reviewer who labels themselves as a feminist, nor Goyer who thinks he's an intellectual for making those statements about She Hulk.
I still stand by my thought that Goyer got the wrong end of comic elitism. He's not mking a Hulk movie, he's making other character movies, so I can't completely fault him for not knowing 30+ years of a character's history on the spur of the moments, especially one who, unless you did read her specific series, really could see her as just strong eyecandy in Avengers, Fantastic Four and Hulk books. Factor in that there are still sects of feminists that are against pinups without care for other development, and he kind of got to a point that isn't as unreasonable to come to as we'd like to think.
I mean, I subscripe to more sex-positive feminism myself, so a character that says "I'm 6'7, stacked, have good sex life, and I like it that way, and if you have problems, kiss my green behind" is more than welcome in my book. I left the theatre of The Incredible Hulk talking about how to get She-Hulk into the next movie.
I mean, I subscripe to more sex-positive feminism myself, so a character that says "I'm 6'7, stacked, have good sex life, and I like it that way, and if you have problems, kiss my green behind" is more than welcome in my book. I left the theatre of The Incredible Hulk talking about how to get She-Hulk into the next movie.
Unless I missed a lot of issues, this was made up by a sole writer and didn't reflect any actual history of the character. It's basically like if in a Superman comic we saw someone say "Hey, remember that time you killed all those guys?" It implies that Supes killed a ton of people, but we've never seen it, and doesn't really fly with the character.Arqus_Zed said:
Anyway, Goyer is an uninformed nutjob at best. His comments about the Martian Manhunter proved that. Claiming anyone who knows who the Manhunter is is thus a virgin is insane considering the huge popularity of the JLA cartoons, in which he was a main character for years upon years.
The 'Hulk' condition turns you into a muscle-bound giant green person, controlled by your strongest emotions. Bruce Banner has serious emotional problems, and it is the repressed anger guiding said giant that makes him a rage monster.Blue Ranger said:
Jennifer Walters doesn't have those emotional issues. Hence She-Hulk not being an 'ogre'.
Well, in short, She-Hulk is strong physically (stronger than 99% of all the Marvel universe), but also a character with inner strength to fight for justice not just on the street but in the court room, even defending the very criminals she fights from corrupt judges and mob ruling. She'll fight for a fair trial, no matter who she's defending, and never compromises her values in the face of public pressure. Her father, a police sergeant, even feels she betrayed their family by "defending criminals". But she also pursues cases defending the mentally unstable and handicapped, minorities, and trauma victims. That resolve, to do more than just punch the problems away and to go through the proper channels, no matter what, is strength.VVThoughtBox said:
And that yields complexity, in that she is a multi-faceted character struggling to balance her life. A current cover shows her daily ordeal: waking up early, shaving her legs, making herself look pretty, stopping a supervillain, going on a date, going to court, hanging out with friends, getting attacked by more villains... She balances a normal life, a professional life, a romantic life, and an absurd superhero life on a daily basis, creating one character with several different sides of herself.
And her independence is that ability to stand on her own, as her own character. Not her father's disobedient daughter. Not as the former-Fantastic Four replacement. Not as Hulk's cousin. Not as just another girl heroine. She's unique in the Marvel U, and she is self-reliant and self-sustaining. She doesn't need a man to chase after or save her or Hulk to give her purpose and inspiration. She's even more independent than Spider-man is, not feeling like she owes it to anyone in her life to betray or lie about herself for their own good. She lives life on her terms, which makes her an independent character.
My friend and I (but mostly my friend) are hoping they'll do a Netflix She-Hulk show centered around her life as a lawyer. It'd be Law and Order, except all her cases would be centered on super heroes, their villains, and maybe SHIELD, so she'd also get to beat the crap out of someone at the end of an episode.
This is the most press She Hulk has gotten in years. Shes a c-list character at best. The thing that makes the Hulk interesting (the loss of control and the struggle Banner goes through) are missing with She-Hulk. She can change at will and has no downside. That is very boring. She is like that caveman lawyer skit from SNL, but green.
That said, physiques like hers sell books. Too bad comics are still stuck in that mold when drawing female characters.
That said, physiques like hers sell books. Too bad comics are still stuck in that mold when drawing female characters.
Strange, I don't recall reading Sensational She-Hulk for the "sex appeal". I remember reading it for the wit, humor, originality, and joyous sense of fun, along with legal drama, romantic tension, and lots of smashing stuff. I'm sure it was only boys that read She-Hulk... surely... Along with the boys buying that She-Hulk romance novel... Surely...Blue Ranger said:
The things that make Hulk interesting are also missing with all the OTHER Avengers... largely because She-Hulk is NOT just a female Hulk. If she was, she'd just be a female copycat with no identity of her own. What's the downside of being Captain America? What's the downside of being Thor? What's the downside to being Tony Stark? What makes her interesting is the OTHER areas of her life, trying to maintain a career, a love life, and her superheroics. Also, for the most part, She-Hulk is often "stuck" in Hulk form permanently... and when she isn't, she still PREFERS to be She-Hulk.HBaskerville said:
Also, so what if she's a C-lister? Remember when Iron Man was considered a B-list hero? What about Thor? Hawkeye? War Machine? ANT-MAN?! In a few months, we're getting a movie starring Star-Lord, Drax the Destroyer, Gamora, Groot, and Rocket the Raccoon... Do you really think her not being as popular as Spider-man would keep her from being interesting or not being marketable?
Beyond even THAT, Marvel has turned several C-listers into A-list success stories lately. The Guardians of the Galaxy is proof of that, along with heroes like Nova and Captain Marvel.
Going even further, whether you find her C-list or not, she holds the record at Marvel for longest running female solo series, she's shown up in countless cartoons (from Hulk to Avengers to Fantastic Four), to appearing prominently in video games (Marvel vs Capcom 3 says hi), toys, novels, crossovers... What I'm saying is, she's gotten a LOT more exposure than the likes of Ant-Man, Star-Lord, or even Thor himself outside of the movies.
As a fan of Guardians of the Galaxy, I quickly learned there are no bad characters... only bad writers. A good writer can take any lame hero and make them awesome (Wolverine is a good example... his debut in Hulk wasn't exactly intimidating, and he was originally so poorly received they were considering dropping him from the X-men until the writers turned things around).