The Big Picture: Skin Deep

Recommended Videos

ReiverCorrupter

New member
Jun 4, 2010
629
0
0
Sean951 said:
ReiverCorrupter said:
Sean951 said:
But the current immigration problems are very much the issue of those alive today. I brought up the past because you claimed that Europe helped all it's foreign colonies.
snip...

3) As far as immigration issues go... America and Europe are in two completely different situations. Europe has countries with long standing cultures where the people have been there for thousands of years. No one has a right to their country just because they're wealthy. America, on the other hand, is #1 FUCKING HUGE and can accommodate a lot more people, and #2 is founded by immigrants (well, except for the Native Americans). If the French say you have to be French to be in France, then more power to them. But America is founded on the principle of:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

So yeah, two different situations entirely.

4) Would Africa be better off if we stayed out of it? Do you think that American black people are better off now even though they started off as slaves? I don't think Africa would have had the industrial revolution on its own, it just wasn't heading that way. I'm not saying that justifies slavery, but it does seem to suggest that slavery did have some good consequences as well. I think if you asked most black people today if they could go back in a time machine and stop slavery, but if they did they would come back in an Africa untouched by European influence most of them would resoundingly respond: "FUCK THAT SHIT, I LIKE RUNNING WATER!"

5) I'm going to go out on a limb here and people might call me racist, but I'm going to say that race is no longer the primary issue. Sure, it might keep some people from getting the jobs that they deserve, but I think the thing that overwhelmingly keeps black people down in America is... POVERTY. Duh. Middle class black people don't have much to worry about. Hopefully they live in an area like San Francisco or New York where they won't be discriminated against.

Poverty begets poverty, and black people started off poor, so now they have to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. I don't think the answer is to be focusing all of our attention on getting more black actors roles, or telling white people how they're privileged. That simply isn't going to accomplish much of anything. The fact of the matter is that we need to increase taxes and improve the education system in poor communities so that people can escape poverty.
snip...

3) I really don't see how that matters in the slightest. So what if America is founded as a nation of immigrants and Europe wasn't. Institutionalized racism is still racism and I reserve the right to call it that.

4)Yes, yes it would. Africa produced some amazing empires on it's own, such as the Great Zimbabwe, Ethiopia (which was never colonized), Mali, the Gold Coast, The Fatimid Caliphate, the Almoravid and Almohad caliphates, Egypt, Carthage, etc. Yes, I pulled some of those from ancient times, but the point is they were entirely capable of forming their own kingdoms and, had they not been largely subjugated from 1600s-1900s, they could have pulled of their own form. If nothing else, it would have been done through contact, as even the people of Southern Africa traded with China.

5) Well... I tend to agree on this, Racism still exists and will keep certain people from getting jobs or houses or what have you, but the main thing keeping the poor people poor is the "culture" that you find in the more poverty stricken areas. The "gangster" lifestyle has it's appeal and many of the role models of people who escaped such situations are pro athletes. This isn't to say that poor people can't get out of the ghettos, but it takes a significant amount of work.
3) Tautology is tautology? 'American' isn't an ethnicity (well, Native American is but I'm talking about the rest of us who inhabit the country). 'French' however, is an ethnicity. Is somebody who passes a test and gets a piece of paper really as 'French' as someone whose family has lived in France since back before the Roman Empire? If so, then being 'French' is rather meaningless, isn't it?

I don't buy it. By comparison, being American just means holding that piece of paper. If, say, 100 million Chinese people moved into France, became citizens and then over the course of a couple decades changes the national language to Mandarin and most movies and public media are derived from traditional Chinese culture as well as the architecture, food, and everything else, then I hate to break it to you, but the geographical region of France would cease to be 'France' in any meaningful sense of the term. Are they really an evil bunch of racists for trying to preserve their culture? Why does everyone else in the world somehow have a right to come to their country and claim citizenship if their native population isn't for it?

4) Maybe. Maybe some regions would, but I doubt all regions would. Europe was pretty lucky in stumbling into its technology. Even extremely well organized civilizations like Japan and China with great potentials for scientific discovery and industrial complexes didn't develop the printing press on their own. Sub Saharan Africa has been far less organized than them, so they'd be even less likely. (Sub Saharan Africa doesn't include North Africa, which I openly admit has traditionally been fairly advanced. At one point Alexandria was basically the center of world culture.) There's no way you can claim that it would though. Hegel is full of crap, history isn't teleological: it's a conglomerate of blind forces above all else.

5) I think we're agreed. Part of the problem is that black people were deprived of their original culture when taken to America and the culture that developed has strong self defeating attitudes instilled into it by the pessimism that inevitably arose from their situation. Part of that includes a disdain for education and professional success because it used to be the case that a black person could only get those by 'sucking up to the man' and thus people who did so were seen as traitors. I think Malcolm X had it right when he saw that it would not only take political upheaval in America to uplift black people, but social and cultural upheaval within the black community as well. (And also adequate support of basic needs from the government like health care and education.)
 

LazyAza

New member
May 28, 2008
716
0
0
Very very good video Bob, couldn't agree more with all of your points. I tip my hat to you good sir.
 

HyenaThePirate

New member
Jan 8, 2009
1,412
0
0
I think I'm going to start a petition for Denzel Washington as Superman. I'm sorry, but that would just flat out be cooler than Jesus.

While I'm at it, Common as Batman wouldn't be a bad recast...

And in the interest of fairness, Vin Diesel can play Luke Cage.

Fair trade?
 

Lunar Templar

New member
Sep 20, 2009
8,221
0
0
>.>
doods, i could totally go for a 'samurai pizza cats' ep, XD would be kinda awesome in a very odd way
 

tl333s

New member
Nov 17, 2009
8
0
0
This is gonna get lost in the amazing sea of replies, but I wanted to say two things:

1) Heimdall was the MAN. I don't think we would have gotten as awesome a performance out of another actor. Screw the nay-sayers.

2) LOL, Equestria is a perfect world! Which is funny, because there's actually an undercurrent of racism there as well. I'm looking at you, Rarity.
 

Alphamarigi

New member
Mar 22, 2009
12
0
0
'Cept in Heimdall had NINE JOTUN MAIDENS FOR MOTHERS which are pale as hell because they live in ice so it makes no sense. Though this is in the myth I don't know much about comics.
 

SlugLady28

New member
Feb 24, 2011
95
0
0
Great show Bob! Don't agree with your opinion on double standards though. I personally, don't want them around. Yes, I know there are double standards, I just don't think we should accept them.

Now i know that not everyone will agree on this, but here's my opinion on the whole race in movies thing. I only disagree with changing a persons race in a story, if race actually factors into the story.

For instance: Last Airbender. I did mind that Katara and Sokka were white, because inuit culture was a factor in their character creation, and everyone else in their tribe was inuit. I guess you could argue that they're grandmother was from the Northern Water tribe, where there were mixed races, but that fact was glossed over so fast, I don't know if anyone remembers that part. And it really WOULD seem racist to say that the prosperous tribe is the one full of white people. Ya.

But I did not mind that Aang was white, because you don't have to be from an eastern culture to actually become a monk and the monks in the movie did have different skin types anyway. And, he looked like Aang. Technically, Chinese, Arabic and Inuit don't actually exist in the Avatar world, they were just inspirations for it.

The Fire nation i didn't mind, because i also had a bit of mixed races, and you still had those eastern influences (though casting the VILLAINS as arabic my not have been a smart move with everything going on in today's world)

And even then, i might (keep in mind that that is a very, very slim "might") have still been okay with it if the actors were actually GOOD.

Also: Goku is an alien, Nick Fury is black in the Ultimate Comics and therefore has a different backstory, Michael Clarke Duncan was great as Kingpin and his backstory never came into play (so i don't know if his nationality was a factor in his backstory), and to flip to a different subject: I don't agree with Angela Bassett playing Amanda Waller because her size is actually a character trait and she's the only other character in the DC universe besides Candy who doesn't look like a super model.

And to end what now looks like a rant: We need to stop with the white guilt. Please. Because it won't make things better. One of the arguments going on in Canada is that the First Nations continually ask for more and more, guilting everyone else into giving it to them-- to the point that some have become lazy and greedy (and before you call me racist for that, i learned about this from someone who is First Nations)

(Hopefully, all of that made sense. I'm not the best at conveying my thoughts. And please don't hate me if i got some nationalities wrong)
 

tyriless

New member
Aug 27, 2010
234
0
0
Wholly crap...a Black Superman would freaking rock! Chisled Ebon-steel Chiwetel Ejioforone for the lead! I can't say his name but I don't care: he is awesome.

Morgan Freeman as Jor-El. Yeah, this idea is crazy, but its the kind of crazy I like.
 

twm1709

New member
Nov 19, 2009
477
0
0
When Sam jackson turned out to be Fury, most people were okay with that because there was a black Nick fury in the ultimate universe.
Honestly I could care less about a black heimdall, but even I admit if that same actor would have been cast as Thor instead, I'd been skeptical at best about how faithful it is to the source material.
It's intriguing that I was thinking about this very issue while I was watching the Escape to the movies video last Friday, and now I get to hear bob's version of it, which I actually agree with a lot for a change.
 

Loop Stricken

Covered in bees!
Jun 17, 2009
4,722
0
0
PONIES!
Ponieeessssssss...!!

And... well I think a black Superman would be kinda cool. Oddly enough I don't really know why.
 

wfpdk

New member
May 8, 2008
397
0
0
it's called a two parter,
instead of crammming everything into one video, you make two. it's obvious you didn't have enough time to say everything you wanted, so why not have an extended episode on your personal site, or just say to be continued next week.
 

KiraTaureLor

New member
Mar 27, 2011
210
0
0
This may be off topic, but The only reason I did not like the movie version of dragon ball, was not because everybody was white, it was because the plot setting was in a maistrean American pop culture society, and that completely ruined the whole story, and character development.
 

xerounlimited

New member
Oct 5, 2010
41
0
0
A quick thought: I do like it when they stick to continuity, but in the end all that matters is if the actor gave a good performance.
 

Harry Mason

New member
Mar 7, 2011
617
0
0
100% agreement, Mr. Bob. I usually like your videos better when I disagree with them, but I both agreed with and loved this video.
 

Mister Linton

New member
Mar 11, 2011
153
0
0
Double standard is just a nice way of saying hypocracy. Saying the world is not perfect is a pretty pathetic excuse for being a hypocrite.

That being said, I really don't have a problem with a black actor being cast in a traditionally white role as long as the motivation is the actor's talent and not the color of his skin. I am against racism of all kinds and supporting anything to do with "affirmative action" would be hypocritical.
 

zelda2fanboy

New member
Oct 6, 2009
2,172
0
0
You rock my world, MovieBob. Great shows and great insights. May you rule over your small portion of the internet for years to come. I have to admit (anonymously, on the internet) that inaccurate racial casting doesn't bother me one bit one way or the other. I'm not an actor, I'm not a minority, and I really don't care. Hell, I'll go so far as to laugh at it when it's especially ridiculous and over the top. But even when it's really egregious in an otherwise pretty good movie (see Breakfast At Tiffanys), I hardly even notice. I didn't know until I was in my 20s that Ben in Short Circuit 2 was played by a white guy. And even when I saw the movie again recently, I loved the character so much that I still barely noticed or gave a shit who was playing him. If this either makes me insensitive or racially colorblind, I'm not sure which one it is.

Speaking of good movies, anyone ever see CSA (The Confederate States of America)? It's a brilliant little satire / sci fi piece about what would have happened if the South had won the war. It's told in a mock TV documentary style and it's alternately funny, uncomfortable, and entrancing. Well worth your time.
 

Fetzenfisch

New member
Sep 11, 2009
2,454
0
0
Interesting. Strangely, still i share your point and yet I disagree. There should be no political or ethical reason behind casting, whatever some fundamentalist pilgrims and their kids did to whoever.
I am for a believable casting. Luckily we are talking about spacevikings in tights here. Where casting a great actor without regarding his skintone is no big problem.
Would it be a film based on the real myths. I would be pissed. Lets say a real life version of the cartoon classic Valhalla
Great piece of art. But a god in that movie not beeing white as snow? no i wouldnt accept it.
As i couldnt accept a whiter than snow dude playing jesus in that mel gibson movie. He lived in a damn desert. He was , if ever existant, brown as everyone living there now.
Casting for a film always always and always, has to do not only with talent, but with phenotypes. You wont cast the tall thin dude to play the tiny fat one. You wont cast a great actor as christopher lee to play a 23year old. And you wont cast a white guy, jackie chan and a woman to play 3 black men.
Just get over all that stuff. It just doesnt work in movies like it does in theatres.
A theatre play is about pure acting, mixed up and filled with the things invisible, nonpresent, added by the imagination of the viewer. Here all that matters is talent. A movie has to present the perfect Illusion, everything has to fit and work.
 

RTR

New member
Mar 22, 2008
1,351
0
0
Very insightful. You know, I never had a problem with AHHH PONIES!! ESCAPE!!!