The Big Picture: Stone Soup
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Well, considering that when the show went to the "Saturday morning kids cartoon" slot the show went from oddball animated sitcom to just plain weird, I can't really blame him.bdcjacko said:
*groan* You do realize you're going to be lynched for this one of these days, right?DVS BSTrD said:
I really appreciated your discussion of "formula plotting" as criticism of a film. I was thinking about that a lot myself recently. Here's a brief list of films with plots that could be considered "formulaic": Casablanca, Toy story, Rocky, Frankenstein, Star Wars, and The Lord of the Rings trilogy.
When someone describes something as formula, what I really think people mean is that the film's plot is empty. It lacks any emotional punch, so scenes feel like they are drawn from some checklist of "what the film needs," rather than created to enhance the story. So, most movies described as formula are really just being described as BAD. This seems to jive with bob's point that inexperienced reviewers tend to overuse the term.
And this doesn't even get into the Hollywood Formula, the massive genre-defying formula that has become so ingrained in the popular consciousness over the past 70 years that almost every film adheres to but no one seems to notice. Name any film that was outrageously popular, and I'd bet it used this.
When someone describes something as formula, what I really think people mean is that the film's plot is empty. It lacks any emotional punch, so scenes feel like they are drawn from some checklist of "what the film needs," rather than created to enhance the story. So, most movies described as formula are really just being described as BAD. This seems to jive with bob's point that inexperienced reviewers tend to overuse the term.
And this doesn't even get into the Hollywood Formula, the massive genre-defying formula that has become so ingrained in the popular consciousness over the past 70 years that almost every film adheres to but no one seems to notice. Name any film that was outrageously popular, and I'd bet it used this.
When it comes to formulas my favorite tends to be "Person corrects wrongs they were part of".
In Avatar it was correcting what the character had done to someone else's land.
In District 9 it was about about trying to save another race.
In Daybreakers it was about returning one's race back to normal.
In Machete it was about correcting a setup that harm another people's identity.
In Enemy Mine it was about correcting wrongs of degrading & enslaving another species.
In Iron Man its just about correcting ones A-holeness.... Even for a moment.
In Halo 2, Via The Arbiter, Its about correcting oneself when you find out your religion is wrong.
Another part most of these in formulas tends to be racial tension.
....
*Off-Topic*
*Sarcasm*
Thanks Bethesda for upholding Racism when you prevented my Female Khajiit from Marrying another Female Khajiit in Skyrim.
*/Sarcasm*
*Edit*
I was just reminded of this....
http://www.housepetscomic.com/2012/05/11/in-all-fairness/
In Avatar it was correcting what the character had done to someone else's land.
In District 9 it was about about trying to save another race.
In Daybreakers it was about returning one's race back to normal.
In Machete it was about correcting a setup that harm another people's identity.
In Enemy Mine it was about correcting wrongs of degrading & enslaving another species.
In Iron Man its just about correcting ones A-holeness.... Even for a moment.
In Halo 2, Via The Arbiter, Its about correcting oneself when you find out your religion is wrong.
Another part most of these in formulas tends to be racial tension.
....
*Off-Topic*
*Sarcasm*
Thanks Bethesda for upholding Racism when you prevented my Female Khajiit from Marrying another Female Khajiit in Skyrim.
*/Sarcasm*
*Edit*
I was just reminded of this....
http://www.housepetscomic.com/2012/05/11/in-all-fairness/
Not sure that introduction came off well, maybe a touch arrogant sounding?
With the Avengers thing, they could have done with making the formula tie up more. It felt a bit like Serenity (One of my favourite all time films) where instead of thinking about the stuff that happens and putting it there for a reason, they put stuff in that didn't have much relation to the main focus of the film (characters) because thats the stuff you put in films, rather than because it does something.
Still a fantastic film
Like the reason some people didn't enjoy the film so much because of formula, was because they noticed the formula. For them it didn't work. Whereas if it's good formula (like Phineas and Ferb!) it doesn't even occur to you that it's being formulaic or it's something objectionable
With the Avengers thing, they could have done with making the formula tie up more. It felt a bit like Serenity (One of my favourite all time films) where instead of thinking about the stuff that happens and putting it there for a reason, they put stuff in that didn't have much relation to the main focus of the film (characters) because thats the stuff you put in films, rather than because it does something.
Still a fantastic film
Like the reason some people didn't enjoy the film so much because of formula, was because they noticed the formula. For them it didn't work. Whereas if it's good formula (like Phineas and Ferb!) it doesn't even occur to you that it's being formulaic or it's something objectionable
I admit I was never a fan of the Flintstones, I would watch it on occasion, but never really got into it, though I do appreciate how long-lasting it is. Can't wait for next week to see how weird things get!
I've got three words for you:CrazyGirl17 said:
The Great Gazoo
(hmm, captcha is "dueling banjos", it feels oddly appropriate for some reason...)
Well...
I saw a production of Moliere's "The Imaginary Invalid" put on by the Oregon Shakespeare Festival a while back, and while it had its points, somewhere between a "see, this audience doesn't get references to Moliere, they're here for the fart jokes" gag and a shoehorned-in "live every minute to the fullest, life is brief" summing-up, I was digging my nails into my arm.
It didn't help that I'm painfully familiar with the tropes of commedia del arte (and, farther back, the Greek and Roman farces from which they evolved) that Moliere drew upon. It's one thing to rework old jokes for modern sensibilities, but somewhere between making jokes at the audience's expense and sitting through about three hours of jokes that might have gotten chuckles from the Caesars to be told that life is brief was a bit much to be borne.
Formula can be okay, sure. But the thing of it is, if you're going to use a formula that the audience is very familiar with, you damn well better get from the completely familiar 'a' to the quite predictable 'b' with a certain amount of style and flair. Certain cliches I have less sympathy for than others- I've commented on the "and then the man runs after the girl and/or humiliates himself in public" of many romantic comedies- but whatever the case, the more obvious formula you use, the less slack you get if you fail to perfrom with distinction within your self-created limitations.
"Avengers" did very well. But I lost all interest in ever seeing "Lock Out" without a large group of friends and copious quantities of alcohol when someone in the trailer un-ironically spouted the phrase "He's the best there is... but he's a loose cannon!"
I saw a production of Moliere's "The Imaginary Invalid" put on by the Oregon Shakespeare Festival a while back, and while it had its points, somewhere between a "see, this audience doesn't get references to Moliere, they're here for the fart jokes" gag and a shoehorned-in "live every minute to the fullest, life is brief" summing-up, I was digging my nails into my arm.
It didn't help that I'm painfully familiar with the tropes of commedia del arte (and, farther back, the Greek and Roman farces from which they evolved) that Moliere drew upon. It's one thing to rework old jokes for modern sensibilities, but somewhere between making jokes at the audience's expense and sitting through about three hours of jokes that might have gotten chuckles from the Caesars to be told that life is brief was a bit much to be borne.
Formula can be okay, sure. But the thing of it is, if you're going to use a formula that the audience is very familiar with, you damn well better get from the completely familiar 'a' to the quite predictable 'b' with a certain amount of style and flair. Certain cliches I have less sympathy for than others- I've commented on the "and then the man runs after the girl and/or humiliates himself in public" of many romantic comedies- but whatever the case, the more obvious formula you use, the less slack you get if you fail to perfrom with distinction within your self-created limitations.
"Avengers" did very well. But I lost all interest in ever seeing "Lock Out" without a large group of friends and copious quantities of alcohol when someone in the trailer un-ironically spouted the phrase "He's the best there is... but he's a loose cannon!"
Plot =/= Story
Characters can create a story just as much as any elaborate chain of events can. In fact, characters can often do it better. I can't always related to the events of a show (sci-fi or fantasy, in particular, are outside my day-to-day experience), but I know people. I can relate to the characters. I can have strong, personal feelings about them, even when the events are far beyond me.
Characters can create a story just as much as any elaborate chain of events can. In fact, characters can often do it better. I can't always related to the events of a show (sci-fi or fantasy, in particular, are outside my day-to-day experience), but I know people. I can relate to the characters. I can have strong, personal feelings about them, even when the events are far beyond me.
Aha, finally. Now, the next time people are bitching about Mario or Zelda games being formulaic, I can just point them here and say "his argument applies to the titles in question."
Man, I'd nearly forgotten about this show. I don't remember nearly any of it, but I do remember some of the weird shit that went on later. Also, does the Jetsons count as a spinoff? Or were they parallel?
Man, I'd nearly forgotten about this show. I don't remember nearly any of it, but I do remember some of the weird shit that went on later. Also, does the Jetsons count as a spinoff? Or were they parallel?
First of all, h'es not just "some guy" in glasses. He's THE "That Guy With The Glasses", the literal mascot of a site of reviewers and critics that, honestly, are being given too much of a hard time by the Internet.bdcjacko said:
Second, it's just something that always comes to my mind when it comes to The Flintstones, after he reviewed the live action movie.
Moviebob, do you understand that more than one of your own reviews invoke the same reaction you describe at the begining of this video from a significant number of viewers? I'd suggest that you take a look at your status as a film critic - you know, the fact that you run a minor weekly webseries as the sum monument to your abilities. You're only in a position to be a hypocritic when making such statements about the work of others.MovieBob said:
TL;DR - You actually are pretty bad at movie criticism, and should deflate your own ego a bit.
EDIT: Megaman stands up horribly today. I really wish you could ditch your nostalgia when talking about games, because you seem to hate anything new in games with the exception of when they haven't made any progress in the last decade.