The Big Picture: The Fall of Kevin Smith, Part III

[Redd the Sock]

Hmm. Different interpretations I guess.

I said it 2 weeks ago, the only reason Clerks worked for me at all was it's end message of "hey, you self proclaimed super advanced nerd person, if the best you can do is bad store clerk, you probably aren't as advanced as you think you are" (a message I think should be taken to heart by anyone posting online content without a harsh editor). By the time Clerks 2 came about, he'd seen the pressures of success and realized that going for the big success isn't all it's cracked up to be.Hence, and end message that so long as you're paying your bills and doing your best, finding the small place you're happiest with isn't inherently bad just because society tells you you must strive to be the biggest success possible to be worth anything.

I suspect this because that was largely the point of Jersy Girl: Big success isn't worth it if it costs you to lose what makes you happy. Of course it did the cardinal sin of not using business success as it's template for the formulaic film, but hollywood, so I imagine it didn't sit well with every amateur film maker thinking of blockbusters and oscars. Hence, I can understand a sense of betrayal from fans that looked to him as the guy that was going to prove nerd triva and dirty jokes can make you a mainstream success, only to have him say he'd rather raise his daughter and do the films he wants to. What following not being good killed what interest any of us that didn't see him as a messiah had really just reducing him to a small film maker or things that while aren't good, but not be as savaged if his name weren't attached.

Me, I think he should keep with comics. His deadline problems notwithstanding, the man gave Daredevil live, made Mysterio something other than a joke, and gave me a great Green Hornet series.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

I don't care what people say, Cop out was hilarious.

 

[darthdenim]

So the closest thing Bob gets to having a point is that since he decided that Kevin Smith represented his generation, Smith's failure to live up to his potential is some kind of biting indictment of his entire generation?

I am disappoint.

 

[Jacco]

Red State could have been a good movie, but it was just too all over the place. Too much going on and not enough narrative to tie it all together.

 

[Kameburger]

At this point I would say, well fair enough he didn't live up to the expectations of a particular group of people in a particular generation, but than again, who does really? Some people who we hail as near gods presently much less grand reputations not so long ago and vice versa. I would like to see one of these on the fall of Tim Burton, or the rise of Joss Whedon.

 

[Groverfield]

Before that he was the lead antagonist in The Neverending Story 3.

Also, the best thing JB's done was that mock movie Jim, Pam and Andy were watching in The Office where he's in love with an old lady.

Can't remember, but wasn't his episode in the X-files before that? From what I've seen of the Neverending Story 3, Jack Black pretty much hijacks the movie and turns it into a proto-Tenacious D plot. I can't say for certain since I can't find it anywhere which is a shame because even without seeing it, I know it's gotta be better than the 2nd one.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

I felt Kevin Smith found whatever huge goal he thought "making it" was actually turned out to be less fulfilling than he wanted and returned to what made him feel better about himself. Its great for folks to do things outside of their comfort zones but it also exposes us to things we may not enjoy. I used to love working with computers, and spent 15 years staying as on top of cutting edge tech as I could. I went through security, web design, building networks and administrating them, up to the point where I found my hobby that I loved had turned into a "job" I hated. So I quietly closed my doors, referred all recurring customers to various associates and faded away. My stress level has dropped and I still do favors and work for folks I know, but nowhere near what I used to do. I may not make as much money now, but damn am I happier.
A lot of life is finding out the things we wanted when we were young turn out to be not as glamorous or cool in reality was we thought or envisioned.
I've always liked Kevin Smith's movies, with a few exceptions.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

But thats the problem with directors that peak at their first movie, they have no reason to get better at their craft. Their ego gets in the way until they have to chase that first success because they never make another movie as good. Its why the great directors like Spilberg, Cameron and Scott are at the top of their game now.

Next could we have a vid about GotG as its coming out soon. Maybe more indepth look at the characters and villians.

 

[Daniel Janhagen]

I don't understand the hatred for Red State, though. I rewatched it a couple months ago and thought it was even better on second viewing, especially while in the occasional cranky don't-trust-the-government mood I get in from time to time.

I don't either; I've seen it 5 or 6 times and it's awesome. Awesome awesome awesome.

Cop Out really was terrible, though. Jersey Girl is ok.

Captcha: fade away - Better to burn out, I heard?

 

[darthdenim]

Who is it exactly that Bob wants to prove to that he and his generation aren't just a bunch of lazy bums?

Is it the "old guard critics" he loves to deride?

 

[Taunta]

Why do people dislike JB? I find him constantly funny, and the music references are always a bonus.

I think it's probably more he's just not their style of humor. If you like his humor, you're going to like his movies, but if you don't, you won't like any of them, because they're all kind of the same style, for lack of a better word.

That being said, personally I can handle JB in very small doses. I really liked the Kung Fu Panda films, because while his style comes out a little bit, it's kept mostly contained.

 

[Pedro Negrin]

I started watching Kevin Smith films a year ago. Started with Clerks and went on from that. I think he is a really talented writer and I will defend Jersey Girl and Zack and Miri as good movies (maybe not exceptional like Dogma or J&SBSB but still). Cop Out was bad (especially with The Other Guys being a better version of what Cop Out is). I need to see Red State and I'm looking forward to his future works. Overall as a mid 90's guy I don't find his work disappointing, I wish he would have been successful without the Askewniverse (and Zack and Miri really should have been) but I hope he does well and continues to entertain, may it be with podcasts, films, comics or whatever.

 

[Pedro Negrin]

I started watching Kevin Smith films a year ago. Started with Clerks and went on from that. I think he is a really talented writer and I will defend Jersey Girl and Zack and Miri as good movies (maybe not exceptional like Dogma or J&SBSB but still). Cop Out was bad (especially with The Other Guys being a better version of what Cop Out is). I need to see Red State and I'm looking forward to his future works. Overall as a mid 90's guy I don't find his work disappointing, I wish he would have been successful without the Askewniverse (and Zack and Miri really should have been) but I hope he does well and continues to entertain, may it be with podcasts, films, comics or whatever.

 

[walsfeo]

Meh, I don't remember that kind of satire being prevalent at that point in time. Having been raised Catholic, DOGMA stood out to me.

Which means most of your knowledge comes after the alliance between Catholic Bishops and Evangelical Protestants did a proverbial halting of active demonizing in the name of the prolife movement. You should probably read up on the very long history of anti-catholic [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism_in_the_United_States] hate in the US. Your parents or catholic grandparents would probably be familiar with how venomous it was, and for many still is.

I certainly remember the story about my Great Grandparents having a cross burned in their yard, but I wouldn't exactly call that satire.

 

[Mr. Q]

First of all, that last bit about the 16 part Jack Black Retrospective was funny as hell. I don't hate Jack Black, he's just fallen off my radar as of late (unless there's another Kung Fu Panda sequel coming up or a Tenacious D reunion tour).

Second, Escapist is going to Comic Con but Bob isn't coming? Really?! Are people gonna be so heartbroken that there wasn't a review for either The Rock's version of Hercules or Lucy?

Actually, I'm more curious to see if Lucy is good or not. The idea of Scarlett Johansson tripping balls on some experimental drugs and then going full-on Akira on the planet (minus the icky techno-organic bit at the end... I think) is an interesting yet goofy premise.

Getting back on topic, I actually like Smith's Jersey Girl. It has a nice premise with some good casting (George Carlin as the blue collar grandfather just pushes my buttons). The only problem it has was mostly due to the "Bennifer" backlash the tabloids and Hollywood was beating to fucking death. It's definitely one of those movies that needs a second chance instead of being lumped in with Gigli.

Clerks 2 was a good wrap-up to the Skewinverse with some funny but cringe-worthy moments. This scene alone got me laughing so hard, I had to exit the movie theater just to catch my breath (WARNING: NSFW).

Spoiler

I do have to disagree with Bob's analysis on Clerks 2 on the main characters returning to their original jobs. Not everybody on the planet is looking to be rock stars or millionaires. Some people are rather content on operating a small business or spending most of their lives in their home town. I'm not gonna begrudge them for that.

Zack and Miri Make a Porno was OK but not one of my favorite Kevin Smith films. I haven't seen the rest of his films after Zack and Miri but I've heard the stories. Cop Out just didn't interest me, mostly due to the trailer being Tracy Morgan acting like a horses ass throughout most of it. After hearing the behind the scenes stories, this movie makes me think of Sam Raimi's misadventures with Crimewave aka The XYZ Murders; a complete victim of Murphy's law from beginning to end. Between Bruce Willis acting like a fucking diva and Tracy Morgan going off script through the entire film, Cop Out was doomed from the start. The big difference was that Raimi's Crimewave was his second movie while Smith's Cop Out much later in his career. The failure of that movie may have done more damage to Smith spiritually at that point of his career. But I'm just speculating.

As with Cop Out, I haven't seen Red State but the reviews (from both critics and fans) and the madness behind the scenes (Smith losing his fucking mind, to make a long story short) has made this one a pass. So far, the only things Kevin Smith has put out that I look into are his comics and Comic Book Men. Everything else he does, I just shake my head and let out a depressing sigh.

IMO, Bob's retrospective of Kevin Smith can be summed up as a promising filmmaker with great potential squandered. Not all of it is Smith's fault, half of that is due to circumstances beyond his control. The other half of the blame falls on Smith for not being able to overcome adversity and allowing his ego to poison everything else after his decline. Much like his stories regarding Prince and that nut job producer behind the failed Nic Cage Death of Superman movie project, Kevin became an out-of-touch talent lost in his own world. A rather sad tale of tragic irony IMO.

I honestly believe there is a chance for Kevin Smith to make a comeback but he desperately needs an intervention. He has to learn from his past mistakes, realize that failure is not the end of the world, and not let the vices that have tainted his legacy to get the better of him again. Until then, all we can do is move forward.

 

[Exley97_v1legacy]

As with Cop Out, I haven't seen Red State but the reviews (from both critics and fans) and the madness behind the scenes (Smith losing his fucking mind, to make a long story short) has made this one a pass. So far, the only things Kevin Smith has put out that I look into are his comics and Comic Book Men. Everything else he does, I just shake my head and let out a depressing sigh.

Um, Smith supposedly "lost his mind" after making Red State -- it was that whole Red State auction episode that led people to start claiming he was having a nervous breakdown or whatever. It was a basically a cruel whisper campaign against Smith by people who were pissed that he was bucking the Hollywood system. Furthermore....does behind-the-scenes drama usuallyy keep you away from other films or just Kevin Smith stuff?

I honestly believe there is a chance for Kevin Smith to make a comeback but he desperately needs an intervention. He has to learn from his past mistakes, realize that failure is not the end of the world, and not let the vices that have tainted his legacy to get the better of him again. Until then, all we can do is move forward.

Good lord...an intervention? Do tell, doctor. Learn from his past mistakes? Like, I dunno, him saying that he's not going to make generic comedies or movies he doesn't feel personally invested in? You can check those boxes, dude. And vices? To what vices are your referring?

 

[Ralancian]

or the rise of Joss Whedon.

Yeah not entirely sure it's much of a ride he's been pretty much the chosen one using Bob's analogy of geekdom since Buffy, held in far higher regard than Smith. Hasn't really put a foot wrong since except in Fox exec perspective...

I mean before Buffy he co-wrote fricking Toy Story!

I think it's safe to say minus a couple of bumps it's been pretty much plain sailing for Joss since he really burst on the scene.

 

[Tradjus]

Sorry Bob, but now you have to do a retrospective on the carer of Jack Black.
It's not even a choice at this point, you opened this Pandora's box, now you must close it.

 

[Drake the Dragonheart]

Totally up for the Jack Black retrospective. Not 16 episodes mind. And not for a while. Need a few episodes about 80s cartoons to cleanse the palate first. Sharky & George or something.

I am still waiting on the Jaberjaw episode he teased at the beginning of his big picture video about tropes vs. women and she who must not be named.

 

[lukesparow]

I'd really like that Jack Black series