The Big Picture: The Fall of Kevin Smith, Part III
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
Well, having seen all three parts of this Big Picture I still think Bob and those like him simply overestimated the talents of Smith. I actually watched "Dogma" a couple of days ago out of curiosity and didn't think it was all that funny or insightful. Maybe it was "edgy" for when it came out but for me the film was just a standard "let's make fun of catholicism" affair.
I don't think we can say Black has fallen. I mean he was first pick for the new Weird Al video "Tacky" and he pulled off Jack Black as a brand pretty well.
Maybe he's just not what people of a certain age watch anymore?
Maybe he's just not what people of a certain age watch anymore?
That's almost like saying Lord of the Rings is cliche. Yeah, it may be, but it rode the front of that wave. Making fun of religion was a bit edgy back then.Uriel_Hayabusa said:
Still, I wish this had just been one or two episodes. I wouldn't mind a geek-list celeb episode now and again, but three is a bit much.
It's kind of hard to really dislike Kevin Smith. As Bob said, in his position we would've all probably done the same. Think about it: He works on movies and comics, is married to an ex-model, and gets a steady supply of cash as long as he doesn't deviate too much from the stuff that he already likes doing .....
????
Profit
Look at his later movies: You can see that they're not his usual stuff, so fans can avoid them. It's basically on the cover.
His Q&A s are pretty interesting, but they also give Smith a platform to explain away all the "bad" stuff he's done. The family film because he has started a family now, the Bruce Willis cash-in because he admires the legend, etc.
Normally, explanations like this would be given out to the press, and the single "apology" would be quickly drowned out by fan-shouting on the internet.
Smith's genius is that with his Q&A sessions his fans get appeased by the apology, they further get something that they want, ie more of Smith's stories, and Smith gets freaking payed. You rescue your movie making career and you get payed doing it. That's genius.
????
Profit
Look at his later movies: You can see that they're not his usual stuff, so fans can avoid them. It's basically on the cover.
His Q&A s are pretty interesting, but they also give Smith a platform to explain away all the "bad" stuff he's done. The family film because he has started a family now, the Bruce Willis cash-in because he admires the legend, etc.
Normally, explanations like this would be given out to the press, and the single "apology" would be quickly drowned out by fan-shouting on the internet.
Smith's genius is that with his Q&A sessions his fans get appeased by the apology, they further get something that they want, ie more of Smith's stories, and Smith gets freaking payed. You rescue your movie making career and you get payed doing it. That's genius.
Did Jack Black rise and fall or just run his course? I don't think he's at a point where no one will touch him. I just think he sort of ran his time as a comedic actor which almost every comedic actor does. If you check Rottentomatoes no their isn't some downward slide in the quality of his films, about 25 percent are good, 50 percent are average, and 25 percent are fucking terrible. Even juggernauts like Will Ferrel, and Jim Carrey come and go.
It doesn't make fun of "religion". It makes fun of Catholics. Which has been the tried and true tradition of the Protestant US for many generations even before the US was founded. That's really why electing Kennedy was such a big deal in US History. And for all the Catholic bashing it did a large portion of Religious Right Wing America could look past it because that's all it was. Catholic Bashing: An American Tradition Since December 1620walsfeo said:
Guess I was fortunate to have little interest in the stuff that wasn't part of the Askewniverse. To varying degrees I've enjoyed the first 5, Clerks animated and Clerks 2.
oh man, Jack Black.
So, once upon a time there was a movie called Crossworlds, which had a pre-stardom Jack Black in a story that's basically a DIO album for all the modern-guy-thrust-into-high-fantasy thereof. AND THEN THEY CAST JACK BLACK AS THE MAIN CHARACTERS FRIEND WHO IS ONLY IN TWO SCENES. Talk about wasting your Jack Black.
So, once upon a time there was a movie called Crossworlds, which had a pre-stardom Jack Black in a story that's basically a DIO album for all the modern-guy-thrust-into-high-fantasy thereof. AND THEN THEY CAST JACK BLACK AS THE MAIN CHARACTERS FRIEND WHO IS ONLY IN TWO SCENES. Talk about wasting your Jack Black.
Eight Awesome Angles of youtube.Rabidkitten said:
When it comes to Kevin Smith...I like Comic Book Men. That's about it. I like the guys from the Secret Stash, but Kevin isn't even usually around for that part. He's usually just in the podcast booth with them where it's implied he's more or less listening and responding to them telling the stories of the shop. I like him just fine in that though. But yeah, Kevin Smith just isn't a director whose name gets me into movie theatres anymore. He and Tim Burton are no longer reasons for me to go see movies.
Though honestly now I tend to pick my movies based on series or studio rather than the people in them or who actually worked on them. I will go see every new Pixar film, every new Marvel Cinematic Universe film, and pretty much any Kaiju movie that comes out, which thanks to Pacific Rim and Godzilla will probably be on the rise in the next few years. Aside from that I just kinda pick and choose my movies on "This looks good" (the Lego Movie being the most recent example of this)
Honestly though, why haven't WB or Marvel tried to scoop up Smith to direct one of the comic book movies? I am curious how he'd pull off a story like that. I mean even when his films are duds, he's not necessarily a bad director.
As for Jack Black...
I occasionally ask people what their favorite Jack Black movie is. Their response is 98% of the time (pulling that number out of my ass, it's just really really really common) School of Rock. Which I agree with. Even watching it now, School of Rock is a decent comedy and fun to watch.
Then I ask them "Name 3 other good movies Jack Black has starred in." occasionally I get people saying King Kong or the Tenacious D movie, but that's usually about it. Jack Black is one of those actors I do really like. He seems like a cool, funny guy. I would like to just hang out with him and watch Netflix or something...I just tend not to like the movies that he's in.
Though honestly now I tend to pick my movies based on series or studio rather than the people in them or who actually worked on them. I will go see every new Pixar film, every new Marvel Cinematic Universe film, and pretty much any Kaiju movie that comes out, which thanks to Pacific Rim and Godzilla will probably be on the rise in the next few years. Aside from that I just kinda pick and choose my movies on "This looks good" (the Lego Movie being the most recent example of this)
Honestly though, why haven't WB or Marvel tried to scoop up Smith to direct one of the comic book movies? I am curious how he'd pull off a story like that. I mean even when his films are duds, he's not necessarily a bad director.
As for Jack Black...
I occasionally ask people what their favorite Jack Black movie is. Their response is 98% of the time (pulling that number out of my ass, it's just really really really common) School of Rock. Which I agree with. Even watching it now, School of Rock is a decent comedy and fun to watch.
Then I ask them "Name 3 other good movies Jack Black has starred in." occasionally I get people saying King Kong or the Tenacious D movie, but that's usually about it. Jack Black is one of those actors I do really like. He seems like a cool, funny guy. I would like to just hang out with him and watch Netflix or something...I just tend not to like the movies that he's in.
I'm relieved this is over. Not that I hate or like Kevin Smith. Kevin Smith is okay & I liked Dogma when I saw it on Comedy Central.
Part of me just wants to see The Big Picture chime in on more current news.... Which was an unknown basically before this 3 part Kevin Smith commentary.
Maybe its too late for a Marvel one though because as of about next week that'll be news from half a month ago.
In particular is it okay for Marvel to commit sacrilege on Norse Mythology when Marvel wouldn't do that to Christianity? And would it be bigoted if Marvel refused to make a Super Hero Jesus who then had to be replaced by someone else?
Or how about Marvel scrapping a guy who unfortunately grew up in a still sexist & racist WW2. Who would then do anything for the betterment of his country even when his country was on the wrong side. The kind of guy who would've proudly taken a bullet for JFK or MLK or at least mourned at their funeral's if he wasn't frozen in ice. The kind of guy who would stand up for minorities even if he isn't in one.
If they retconned everything into Marvel Now they could've at least made him homosexual at best. Explaining that he had his own fears & his own reasons for fighting in WW2. Even going as far as now wearing a pink triangle. And they could've done the story to revolve around America's now scrapped "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" rule.
But instead it seems Marvel is more determined into repeating stuff they retconned out.
And yeah.... I'm still venting.
Part of me just wants to see The Big Picture chime in on more current news.... Which was an unknown basically before this 3 part Kevin Smith commentary.
Maybe its too late for a Marvel one though because as of about next week that'll be news from half a month ago.
In particular is it okay for Marvel to commit sacrilege on Norse Mythology when Marvel wouldn't do that to Christianity? And would it be bigoted if Marvel refused to make a Super Hero Jesus who then had to be replaced by someone else?
Or how about Marvel scrapping a guy who unfortunately grew up in a still sexist & racist WW2. Who would then do anything for the betterment of his country even when his country was on the wrong side. The kind of guy who would've proudly taken a bullet for JFK or MLK or at least mourned at their funeral's if he wasn't frozen in ice. The kind of guy who would stand up for minorities even if he isn't in one.
If they retconned everything into Marvel Now they could've at least made him homosexual at best. Explaining that he had his own fears & his own reasons for fighting in WW2. Even going as far as now wearing a pink triangle. And they could've done the story to revolve around America's now scrapped "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" rule.
But instead it seems Marvel is more determined into repeating stuff they retconned out.
And yeah.... I'm still venting.
I forgot he was even involved in Cop Out. Man, he really fell off my radar when he wasn't doing Jay and Silent Bob movies.
I'd be fine with another Clerks. Smith is a cult hit basically playing to his cult. And that's fine. I probably will not enjoy it as much as his previous Askewniverse films, but will still find plenty to enjoy in it.
I'd be fine with another Clerks. Smith is a cult hit basically playing to his cult. And that's fine. I probably will not enjoy it as much as his previous Askewniverse films, but will still find plenty to enjoy in it.
medv4380 said: