The Big Picture: Waterworks - Darren Aronofsky's Noah

[templar1138a]

This is the first I've heard of this movie, and I'm not interested in seeing it. I can't deny I'm pretty hostile towards Christianity given their history of persecution and the undue resistance its followers put up in the modern sociopolitical sphere, but with that aside, I'm not going to see the movie because of Russell Crowe. I don't want to see ANOTHER movie of him as a stubbly protagonist who switches between gravelly whispers and full-mouthed shouting.

 

[RoonMian]

Very interesting piece, your best since your one the historiography of Satanic mythology. Those two asides of yours were of particular interest. As for that reference to Joseph Campbell; well I for one had never heard of the man before, so thanks for that.

Joseph Campbell came up in one of Moviebob's earlier videos. Here: http://www.screwattack.com/shows/partners/game-overthinker/game-overthinker-episode-29-continuum

 

[Merklyn236]

Being a fan of many of 'old' Hollywood's takes on big Biblical stories (or associated ones like Ben-Hur) I've been very interested in this film. Not just because it's Aronofsky, but because I was genuinely curious to see what kind of movie they would make out of this. I guess I was curious if this was going to be like classic films, The Prince Of Egypt or The Passion. (Hoping towards one of the first two PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.)

The only thing that gave me pause was when they started talking about it being an environmental message movie. I didn't want to see Al Gore's An Inconvenient Flood thank you very fargin' much. No offense, but message movies give me gas and don't get my money.

But I have to admit I hadn't heard about the 'reverse' controversy? I mean, it makes sense in a way, but I didn't expect that one.

 

[tzimize]

As always, an absolute joy to listen to you get into things Bob. In some ways, I gotta say, you're more of a journalist than most "regular" journalist. Pieces going in depth on different issues are gone and have been replaced by clickbait (even here). So thanks for keeping the standard up Bob, wish there were more journalists like you out there.

 

[rcs619]

I've always been intrigued by the idea of "Christianity/Judaism as straight Mythology" so despite being one of those irreligious types I intend to check it out... so like Moviebob I'm hoping that this is something at least thought provoking...

Though last time Aronofsky worked with a budget we got The Fountain... and that was weird...

Honestly, a lot of it is more fantastical than you'd expect. Most of the 'mainstream' biblical stories and imagery has been heavily sanitized and revised over the years. You just don't hear about a lot of the wars (a few of which ended in the people on God's side slaughtering every man, woman and child in said conquered land/city), or the sex, or even the monsters. You can argue that nephilim and such are non-canon because the people who decided what went in the bible decided they were, but there's a good bit still in there. A lot of angels are downright lovecraftian in how they are described. There serephim are just these huge balls of wings used to keep their true bodies hidden, and then there are the Thrones, the most powerful of the angels. They're described as flaming wheels within wheels, covered in eyes. And that's not even getting into the clusterfuck of WTF that is the book of Revelations.

The idea that Jesus is a blue-eyed white guy, angels are these beautiful winged humans, that Satan is some sort of goat-man, and that the bible has less weirdness and violence than any other religious text are more modern constructs. Largely as an attempt to try and sanitize it all.

This makes it sound like Bayonetta might be the most accurate version of Old Testament scripture that's available.

Haha, in a lot of ways, Bayonetta did things right. The angel designs in that game were just great (especially the dragon with the huge upside-down face on its body), and in a lot of ways, were closer in spirit to the way a lot of them are described in the Bible than how they are often depicted (especially the higher-tier angels that get so very, very weird). lol, in a way, the angels in Evangelion (for all the massive faults of that show, I do love the visual design) were closer in spirit to biblical angels than the pale-skinned, winged humans you see all over cathedrals. I get why angels being depicted as humans is a thing, and I don't have an issue with it, but I do wish more games, movies and novels would have some fun with angels. Stick closer to some of the way they're depicted in the bible, make them a bit more abstract and monstrous.

 

[MCerberus]

I'm going to pass on this one.

Because it's a CGI wank filled with yelling dudes, blue/orange contrast shots, and gritty "everything's too dark" lighting.

 

[Wandrecanada]

As with any consumable item I purchase it's not always the quality of the item I feel the need to question but the organizations who profit off these items. Conflict Diamonds might have extremely high quality but you should still avoid purchasing them when possible.

In this case, with religious films, it's important to know where the money is going.

 

[scw55]

I do wish unreligious people would be open minded to seeing the stories from the Bible as stories rather than an insult.
The Bible is basically a very long Lord of the Rings, which happens to have a major religion associated with it.

I'm a probably a Christian and I am aware the Bible has been written by man, and thus was vulnerable to corruption during various rewrites. Doesn't stop me enjoying some of the stories as stories (mainly the Old Testament. I don't enjoy the New Testament as much because it's quite dull and most of the stories are recited by Jesus and are stated as metaphorical-made-up. That sort of takes away my interest because it's just make-believe. The stuff cited as being real is more interesting because a part of you believes it 100% happened, due to imagination*.)

*It would be like periodically during Lord of the Rings there was a massive disclaimer scattered throughout saying THE FOLLOWING IS 100% FICTIONAL. You know it's fictional, but when you're reading the book, you momentarily believe it's real. It's like that with the Bible, but with Jesus starting another metaphorical story.

As with any consumable item I purchase it's not always the quality of the item I feel the need to question but the organizations who profit off these items. Conflict Diamonds might have extremely high quality but you should still avoid purchasing them when possible.

In this case, with religious films, it's important to know where the money is going.

Might as well carry that mantra to all Hollywood films. Then you might not watch any. Humans are easily corrupted creatures. Ironically, that's what's established in the Bible.

 

[Jman1236]

I'm a lutheran and I didn't know about this whole debate about stories set before noah's flood were metaphors.

National Geographic did a show about what would happen in a noah's flood senario in the modern age however they brought up the point that there isn't enough water on earth to flood the world. There answer, a giant ice asteroid hits the moon forming a disc of debris around the earth that over 300 years falls to earth as rain causing the oceans to rise to over 13,000 feet. You can find it on youtube under "How to surive the end of the world" and they also have done other sernaios but they set the bar WAY too high with there first project Evacuate Earth about trying to save a faction of humaninty from a collision with a rouge neutron star 75 years from now.

I've heard some interesting theories that deal with how water enough for a global flood might have gotten here, but few seem to take on the more difficult proposition of where the heck it all went. Did the NatGeo show deal with how the water receded and where it receded to?

No it just dealed with how the world would deal with this senario but one thing I notice is that the show has an attitude against the 1%, in Evacuate Earth, the super rich built there own ship to save themselves and it used an anti-matter engine and it blew up on the launch pad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkMjvzHeZLA - part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guXPuRZGlkM - part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTU3Yt9J--A - part 3

For those that are curious about evacuate earth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhJD1UrJXKM

 

[Cabisco]

This movie ain't got a chance I sadly feel. A huge number of people at least here in the UK has dismissed it as 'religious shit' no matter how hilariously insane it looks.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Still not that interested in it. Will rent it from lovefilm.

 

[Kuredan]

As a believer who:
- Believes in the Big Bang and evolution
- Doesn't take the whole Old Testament literally and takes a Barthian approach to the rest of scripture (Christo-centric, rather than dogmatic)
- Is somewhat socially liberal or at least libertarian enough not to want to suppress different ideas.
- Takes an almost univeralist approach to the afterlife

I have to say I'm kinda curious about this Noah movie. I loved El Shaddai which is about as inaccurate you can get with apocryphal literature (wrap your head around that one). As long as the essential truth or moral of the Noah story is intact, I'll be fine. If you leave that out, the story has no purpose and really no connection with Noah other than using names and setting. You might as well make it a disco zombie musical.

 

[walsfeo]

Gotta say, I was going to overlook this movie until watching this episode of Big Picture, so I think you can rest assured that this particular episode has served it's purpose.

I'm still not sure I'm going watch it, but now it's less of knee-jerk reaction an more of a "this looks pretty bad" reaction.

 

[Rad Party God]

Thanks for making half of this episode impossible to understand for non-native English speakers. T_T

I'm even not sure if native English speakers can understand those quick asides.

I'm not a native english speaker, but I could understand most of what he said... Yahtzee kinda trained me upon the art of "rapid speaking".

OT: Bob... Thank you... Thank you for not generalizing christians (catholic in my case) into a single mindset. That said... well, it's Russell Crowe, I guess he couldn't find a better acting role after Gladiator and yes, I know he's in Les Miserables, but... ugh... have you tried to listen to him singing!?.

As for the movie itself... well, it kinda looks like 2012, where it's a tasteless CGI-fest, designed to be showcased on big HD TV screens at your local Best Buy, I know, because that's the kind of films we used to showcase those TVs.

 

[PunkRex]

It still surprises me just how different Britain, for the most part, differs from America when it comes to the religeous debate. It still exsists here but it seems very much behind closed doors. I bet Noah will proberly do quite well here and the religious aspect will have little effect on it, or maybe thats just me being hopeful. I'm studying Palaeontology and the reaction you can get from my lecturers and peers by simply mentioning Creationism is really something yet what few i've asked about this film seem fairly into so... *shrugs*

I'm not religious myself, I just think the stories are kinda neat.

 

[V4Viewtiful]

I'm hoping this movie is good too, because I liked all those old epic movies, and I've read some of the oldest interpretations of the old testament and other tales, and you thought the comic industry was outlandish!

 

[EXos]

<<Snobby intellectual here.

Okay Bob you made your point.

My first thought was "yeah... not gonna watch that..." but now; I'll give it a shot.

 

[Darth_Payn]

The makers of Noah should have the same disclaimer that precedes each Assassin's Creed game. The one about being made by a multicultural team of various nationalities and beliefs to put everyone at ease.
I liked the use of Brian Griffin as the visual shorthand for "reflexive atheism", especially since the 2008-9 season of Family Guy. Jaysus, that one did suck.

Wow Bob... you trying to go for the Mcro Machines Man's Record?

When Bob said "QUICK ASIDE", he meant Quick. And it was awesome!

 

[ecoho]

ok im catholic (yes there is a deference) and ill say im going see this movie im probably going to like it, and there a good chance one of my priests is going to see and like it too. I really don't like talking about religion but in my experience you get more trouble from protestants and atheists(well a certain type of these) with films like these then from main branches of religions.

 

[Hutzpah Chicken]

I'm thinking this might be an interesting movie. It looks like it'll be enjoyable to watch and Bob's schpiel bolsters the appeal. Once again, I haven't heard about any controversy looming over this film, but then again, I never hear about the big controversies that Bob mentions or discusses.