The Big Picture: Waterworks - Darren Aronofsky's Noah

[Bruce]

Most of the buzz on this movie I have seen from atheist sites has been more or less laughing at the evangelicals for calling it inacurate.

A little clue for all you "I'm not a fundamentalist" type Christians, we atheists don't much mind you lot making movies about your religion provided they are good. Nine times out of ten? They're not good.

The fact that the Bible isn't true isn't the same as saying it isn't entertaining in places, it is just that a lot of religious movies are utter dreck.

It is a bit like avoiding movies based on videogame franchises - it doesn't mean you don't like videogames, it means you've noticed that most of the time those movies suck.

What we do mind is when you start jacking off in precisely the same manner as you accuse the religious right of doing, and in precisely the same manner you accuse atheists of doing, to the assumption that you are better than anyone else.

 

[Gorrath]

I've always been intrigued by the idea of "Christianity/Judaism as straight Mythology" so despite being one of those irreligious types I intend to check it out... so like Moviebob I'm hoping that this is something at least thought provoking...

Though last time Aronofsky worked with a budget we got The Fountain... and that was weird...

I'm one of those snarky, atheist, intellectual sorts and I freakin' love mythology. Abrahamic mythology is some of the best and most interesting out there. Also, I enjoyed The Fountain thoroughly, the critics be damned.

OT: I don't think the snarky atheist sorts give Christian based movies a miss because they are snarky atheists. I think they do it because of the fact that they tend to be sanitized, preachy works that are more about message mongering than being entertaining. That may be fine for the audiences they are intended for, but I'm not spending cash to be bored by a Sunday sermon. This is Darren Freakin' Aronofsky though, who is one of my very favorite directors. I'll be seeing this.

Still some of the message mongering ones can be entertaining. Not sure if condemning my point but Evan Almighty comes to mind. Yes it was a PG "be kind to all" type of story but it had Steve Carell who is rarely not funny. Morgan Freeman is God as he rightfully should be (seriously only him and Liam Niesan have voices that I would call godlike). It was a fun romp with a good and to me at the time clever message in the ARK. Yet apparently the "super-christians" that Bob talked about in his video took issue with the movie. "You can't take a biblical story and turn it into a family comedy!" Me and my family were just all shaking our heads and we all consider ourselves pretty devout catholics. If the movie gets a message you want spread across the world anyway why take issue with it?

See I don't think Evan Almighty is all that big on the message mongering side of things. It has a point and makes that point through a humorous play of events. That's quite a different animal from things like Fireproof. I rather liked Evan Almighty because it wasn't so heavy-handed with the "Christianity is the only thing that can save the sinner" stuff. I think there's a marked difference between a movie about a good message (be kind to all, ect.) and one that serves as an advertisement for a specific religious view (Christianity is the one and true religion, ect.) There's a lot of grey in this assessment of course, so one's mileage may vary. But I don't fault Atheists for not dropping 15 bucks to go see a movie they think they might end up just rolling their eyes at.

 

[marioandsonic]

As a nonreligious person, I don't buy the Bible as a moral guide. However, as others have said, I do enjoy the mythological parts of it.

The idea that the pre-Noah world was full of angels, demons, and humans all practicing sorcery? I could get behind that. Sounds like the Bible crossed with World of Warcraft.

EDIT: And yes, Fireproof was godawful. And Kirk Cameron is an insufferable douche.

 

[KazeAizen]

See I don't think Evan Almighty is all that big on the message mongering side of things. It has a point and makes that point through a humorous play of events. That's quite a different animal from things like Fireproof. I rather liked Evan Almighty because it wasn't so heavy-handed with the "Christianity is the only thing that can save the sinner" stuff. I think there's a marked difference between a movie about a good message (be kind to all, ect.) and one that serves as an advertisement for a specific religious view (Christianity is the one and true religion, ect.) There's a lot of grey in this assessment of course, so one's mileage may vary. But I don't fault Atheists for not dropping 15 bucks to go see a movie they think they might end up just rolling their eyes at.

It was the last "message mongering" religious film I think I've seen. Either I've just been lucky or they haven't made that many until the last few years or so. The ones that do say Christianity is the only way to go I'm glad I haven't seen or heard of. Like Fireproof. I hadn't heard about that until now. I don't blame them either for not wanting to drop money on something that they would just have eye rolls at. I think this will be good. I want to go see it with my mom actually as she is probably the most religious in my family. She's like a step or two above average joes but a few steps below crazy psycho obsessive. I need to read up though on some of the pre flood stuff as I'm almost certain I know what she is going to say.

This movie deserves the benefit of the doubt. Great director, great lead, and if you just need some eye candy its got Emma Watson in it which its nice to see her in movies. I kind of what the Harry Potter kids to keep acting in big budget Hollywood films.

 

[Gorrath]

This movie deserves the benefit of the doubt. Great director, great lead, and if you just need some eye candy its got Emma Watson in it which its nice to see her in movies. I kind of what the Harry Potter kids to keep acting in big budget Hollywood films.

You'll get no argument from me on that. Anyone who gives this a miss just because it's based on a Bible story is doing themselves and the movie a disservice. I've never seen an Aronofsky film I didn't love, and in my opinion, Black Swan was a straight up masterpiece of film making. As you say, everything about this movie deserves the benefit of the doubt. Cheers.

 

[Antsh]

I might check it out.

I've been kind of ignoring it, assuming it was another disaster cash-in like Pompeii but with a biblical tone to get more people in, like The Passion.

Meh, I'll pay money to watch half-angel giants wreck stuff.

 

[Chris Moses]

I'm going to try to make this as short as I can.

My problem with religion comes mainly from not only that they might take the most evil & maybe even false claims that they declare good & must be real to them. But they then try to force their political beliefs on everyone too.

To put it this way I now believe Spider-Man is real. And With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility! I take that in a political way that declares if you have the power to make babies then it's your responsibility to make babies. By doing that I probably angered Homosexuals & Pro Choicers who probably don't want to have babies (or would rather adopt). So by then even if they find Spider-Man to be fake I now have a group of people who now hate Spider-Man no matter what.

On a brighter note.... I like God Gundam even though the dub changed it to Burning Gundam....

Only it's not the problem with religion, i'ts the problem with religious people. At it's core Christianity has a good set of rules - love thy neighbour, thou shalt not kill, thouh shalt not steal, et cetera. And as all good things it's being used by nutjobs to control other people. But it's not the religion's fault, it's the fault of said nutjobs.

Only no it does NOT. At it's CORE, Christianity is vile, hateful, and atrocious. It fails to condemn slavery but say's if you fail to honor your father you go to the worst possible hell imaginable. It fails to say rape and torture is wrong, but says if you worship anyone else but the right God, you are raped and tortured in Hell for eternity. At it's core, it says you must kill a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night. It says you must condemn gays and homosexuals. And the Bible explicitly condones, not condemns, owning other human beings, and teaches how to beat them. Fuck the Bible, fuck the Quran and fuck the Torah.

The Bible I read said rape was a sin. You are right on about slavery, however.

There are a number of modern and moderate Christians that see the salvation of Christ as an antidote to all many of the punishments, condemnations, and abominations listed in the Old Testament. The OT doesn't have a handy way to absolve one of one's sins so it's easier to condemn people in this life (on this plane of existence). With Jesus comes the question "is he going to be saved?" and thus allows (or should allow) for people to wait for God to pass ultimate judgement on them.

Also the Bible is not clear on the existence of hell. Jews, I am told, don't believe in hell. There is some question as to whether those with unabsolved sins simply "wink out" of existence (something atheists believe happens anyways) or are condemned to hell or even purgatory. The New Testament at different times supports all 3 possibilities.

 

[JimB]

Yeah, I agree, Bob, modern-day atheism is pretty bad. "This movie isn't about pissing off Christians? Trash!"

Except, of course, that doesn't represent modern-day atheism at all.

I'd argue nothing represents modern-day atheism, since atheism is not a creed or a philosophy or a movement with some kind of binding belief system but rather a lack of belief in deities. That isn't to say I disagree with your post, though. Someone whose lack of belief in a deity requires them to want to piss off believers is probably better described as a maltheist than an atheist, or maybe as a prick.

 

[JonSherwell]

This video was well presented, well researched, and really accurately portrayed views of modern Biblical scholarship. I am really looking forward to Noah, especially hearing that there may be influence from Apocryphal books. Honestly, reading books like Enoch is really colorful and deeply interesting.

 

[Norix596]

Late comment but relevant - I had been mentioning this movie to my friends and got exactly the reaction that Moviebob was talking about - complete dismissal - regardless of my efforts to convince them it was a good movie - and that a good movie is a good movie whatever the subject matter, none of them seemed to be able to get past the "bible-movie" association.