The Big Picture: Words for Nerds

[Vanguard_Ex]

Ah, isn't hypocrisy fun?

How so?
I'm not challenging you or anything, I'm just curious as to where the hypocrisy comes in.

 

[LostintheWick]

It looks like people don't like mirrors, Bob. You've stirred the nest.

 

[BlueInkAlchemist]

I'm sorry, I'm going to need some clarification on just how my reviews are bullying anyone.

One of the problem with MovieBob's Big Picture show is that he provides no insight into whether it's a stream of consciousness or an integrated map of his thoughts. Either way, it comes across as though he's often missing the small picture.

According to MB in this show,

- referencing geek culture, even in jest, is a form of elitism we're all engaged in (Persecution Complex) - which is bullying.
- making a long, well thought out reply to something is a waste of your time.
- copy/pasting videos in lieu of context is lazy.

Problem: Most reviews here - and everywhere else - utilise this because...that's what a review is.

- Cultural references - to tie in the audience.
- Detailed explanation of the failures of the reviewed item. (To stop it being a straight number score)
- Including video clips from trailers to underline those points.

To posit MB as a bully, one only has to reference his tirade against Transformers and it's fans. (Which I may also agree with)

So he's just said "While we get paid for doing this, it's not a good thing for you or I to do"

That's the last form of geek culture, which is self-depreciation - and which I've already shown here.

Taken as the Big Picture; all of this is wrong, and personal opinion is the condemnation of another's opinion.

Taking it as a small picture; these are traits we tend to over-exaggerate. (and, like lists, over-exaggeration is one thing we always do)

The problem with this is the generalization of the term "bullying." The way MB presented his argument, it could be extrapolated that positing any form of opinion, especially when one is being paid to do so, could constitute bullying. To me, there's a huge difference that I'd like to try and illustrate as best I can.

In one post, Susan says that Skyrim is an excellent game that you should invest time and money in. People disagree, and she asks on what grounds to try and understand their argument.

In another, SexyBro69 says anybody who plays Skyrim instead of Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 is a massive ****** and ruining gaming. People disagree, and SexyBro responds by telling them they're either not allowed to tell him he's wrong because that's bullying, or lumps them in with the 'faggots' who play Skyrim instead of MW3.

I really hope I don't have to spell this out for you. There's a huge difference between putting forth and defending an opinion (and, remember, that's all a review really is) and making every effort to beat the minds of others into submission. The former is being professional, or at the very least mature and responsible. The latter is bullying.

I don't see Susan calling people names for having opinions. She is not saying people are wrong for enjoying what they enjoy. She is not, by any definition of which I'm aware, a bully.

Not everything is "in good fun." Some people enjoy the opportunity to be spiteful, cruel, and angry - and even those who don't actually mean any harm often don't think about how their words might impact the person reading them/

All a bully cares about is being right, feeling superior, getting that smug satisfaction from silencing an opponent by any means necessary, be it intimidation or shame or sheer volume. If someone is, in their opinion, wrong on the Internet, nothing matters more than showing the world how wrong they are, or failing that, how much they like having sex with the same gender. Again, I don't see any professional reviewer who puts their opinion onto the Internet behaving in this manner. Not even Yahtzee, or Confused Matthew, or the guys from Red Letter Media constitute as bullies. They stand by their opinions and are willing to discuss them even if they think the person disagreeing with them has no grounds and is a complete ignoramus. I've been amused by the opinionated reviews of these people, I've been enlightened, I've even been offended from time to time. But never intimidated, never bullied, never disgusted.

The behavior MB discusses can be and often is disgusting. The behavior of reviewers like Susan rarely, if ever, is.

 

[Susan Arendt]

I'm sorry, I'm going to need some clarification on just how my reviews are bullying anyone.

One of the problem with MovieBob's Big Picture show is that he provides no insight into whether it's a stream of consciousness or an integrated map of his thoughts. Either way, it comes across as though he's often missing the small picture.

According to MB in this show,

- referencing geek culture, even in jest, is a form of elitism we're all engaged in (Persecution Complex) - which is bullying.
- making a long, well thought out reply to something is a waste of your time.
- copy/pasting videos in lieu of context is lazy.

Problem: Most reviews here - and everywhere else - utilise this because...that's what a review is.

- Cultural references - to tie in the audience.
- Detailed explanation of the failures of the reviewed item. (To stop it being a straight number score)
- Including video clips from trailers to underline those points.

To posit MB as a bully, one only has to reference his tirade against Transformers and it's fans. (Which I may also agree with)

So he's just said "While we get paid for doing this, it's not a good thing for you or I to do"

That's the last form of geek culture, which is self-depreciation - and which I've already shown here.

Taken as the Big Picture; all of this is wrong, and personal opinion is the condemnation of another's opinion.

Taking it as a small picture; these are traits we tend to over-exaggerate. (and, like lists, over-exaggeration is one thing we always do)

I don't understand what you're saying, and don't believe you've answered my original question. This, to me, doesn't answer why you believe that "90%" of the reviews on The Escapist are bullying anyone. Pointing out why something doesn't work is not bullying. Telling someone the different ways a game may disappoint them is not bullying. We're presenting information so that the reader can decide for themselves if they want to try the game or not.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Pointing out why something doesn't work is not bullying. Telling someone the different ways a game may disappoint them is not bullying. We're presenting information so that the reader can decide for themselves if they want to try the game or not.

I agree.

MovieBob's extrapolation, on this point (as BlueInk seemed to see as well), disagrees.

it could be extrapolated that positing any form of opinion, especially when one is being paid to do so, could constitute bullying.

His criticism of critiques point to the idea that ALL non-positive reviewing is bullying, of a sort.

That's what the problem with the format is. By saying "This is what geeks do wrong" he's also condemning what geeks are best at. And what is needed.

It would be bullying from me if I was to point out specific examples. For the 10%, you'd have to state simply good things about the game - which has happened quote often in the past.

Not even Yahtzee, or Confused Matthew, or the guys from Red Letter Media constitute as bullies.

That could be argued quite strongly. Yahtzee and Mr. Plinkett specifically call for certain followers to be hunted and wounded, if memory serves me right.

And Bob says, "even in jest".

I've a lot of respect for MB on the subject of movies, but I think here he's moved into "the world would be better without..." and that's a dangerous territory.

 

[Susan Arendt]

Pointing out why something doesn't work is not bullying. Telling someone the different ways a game may disappoint them is not bullying. We're presenting information so that the reader can decide for themselves if they want to try the game or not.

I agree.

MovieBob's extrapolation, on this point (as BlueInk seemed to see as well), disagrees.

it could be extrapolated that positing any form of opinion, especially when one is being paid to do so, could constitute bullying.

His criticism of critiques point to the idea that ALL non-positive reviewing is bullying, of a sort.

That's what the problem with the format is. By saying "This is what geeks do wrong" he's also condemning what geeks are best at. And what is needed.

It would be bullying from me if I was to point out specific examples. For the 10%, you'd have to state simply good things about the game - which has happened quote often in the past.

Not even Yahtzee, or Confused Matthew, or the guys from Red Letter Media constitute as bullies.

That could be argued quite strongly. Yahtzee and Mr. Plinkett specifically call for certain followers to be hunted and wounded, if memory serves me right.

And Bob says, "even in jest".

I've a lot of respect for MB on the subject of movies, but I think here he's moved into "the world would be better without..." and that's a dangerous territory.

I believe you're willfully misunderstanding and overstating Bob's point. There is a vast difference between reasonable criticism and the kind of blind hatred that Bob is referencing. The kind of "if you like this, not only are you WRONG, but I am AGAINST you" behavior that we see on forums every single day. I certainly wouldn't say such behavior is limited to geek culture - sports fans have been doing it for years - but Bob isn't talking about any time that someone objects to something.

 

[Aptspire]

exemption for ponies?

also, I'll try harder to not be a hypocrite

 

[BlackWidower]

I don't think any of those have been a problem for me. Okay, the occasional epically long forum post, but I typically kick myself after wasting my time on here, and it does fuel my blog a bit. I've actually taken some comments I've made online and re-jiggered them for my blog. It's been fun.

Some may say my blog is a waste of time, but really, it's the only thing keeping me sane.

I've also copy-pasted things into forums, direct, verbatim quotes, but those tend to be from my blog, so it's still my own opinion.

It's a great blog, you should read it sometime.

 

[BlackWidower]

I'm sorry, I'm going to need some clarification on just how my reviews are bullying anyone.

One of the problem with MovieBob's Big Picture show is that he provides no insight into whether it's a stream of consciousness or an integrated map of his thoughts. Either way, it comes across as though he's often missing the small picture.

According to MB in this show,

- referencing geek culture, even in jest, is a form of elitism we're all engaged in (Persecution Complex) - which is bullying.
- making a long, well thought out reply to something is a waste of your time.
- copy/pasting videos in lieu of context is lazy.

Problem: Most reviews here - and everywhere else - utilise this because...that's what a review is.

- Cultural references - to tie in the audience.
- Detailed explanation of the failures of the reviewed item. (To stop it being a straight number score)
- Including video clips from trailers to underline those points.

To posit MB as a bully, one only has to reference his tirade against Transformers and it's fans. (Which I may also agree with)

So he's just said "While we get paid for doing this, it's not a good thing for you or I to do"

That's the last form of geek culture, which is self-depreciation - and which I've already shown here.

Taken as the Big Picture; all of this is wrong, and personal opinion is the condemnation of another's opinion.

Taking it as a small picture; these are traits we tend to over-exaggerate. (and, like lists, over-exaggeration is one thing we always do)

Yeah, except it's not in an internet forum. When they make videos it's likely millions of people will watch it, while I'm sure only six people will ever read what I'm writing right now.

 

[SilverUchiha]

Words for Nerds

Bob would like to speak to some of you about your behavior.

Watch Video

While I'm not going to argue with most of your points, I will say that your "batman meme is getting old" point doesn't really do it for me. I get that he isn't invincible, he's just a normal guy in a costume who gets lucky quite often. But, hear me out, isn't it essentially true that any losing fight he walks away from, he typically (if not always) comes back and wins? And isn't it true that, more often than not, he usually has a gadget to deal with just about anything? I'm not trying to perpetuate the meme (hell, I wasn't aware this line of thinking had gotten to meme-hood yet). But if he can legitimately take on Superman (DC official strongest super-human) or hold his own against the incredible Hulk, I think it is safe to say that he is proven to be one of the more capable heroes. Just throwing that out there for ya.

 

[SurrealFactory]

Should we really be thinking about the world in such a simplistic, High School-mentality?

Let's say we CAN give an objective definition on what a "nerd" is. Some people have rejected Bob's notion that nerdism arises from bullying. Maybe it's just me, but I generally associate being a nerd with neuroticism, social awkwardness and just in general some level of psychological damage from SOMEWHERE. I mean, if not, what makes you a nerd? The fact that you frequent internet forums? A lot of people do that these days. That you play Pokemon? Watch anime? I'm sorry, but are we really claiming these as exclusive hobbies?

There's no way you can justify to me that someone is a "nerd" based on interests alone. No, if there is some kind of vague definition for the word (there shouldn't be, we already have enough barriers between us already without thinking up new ones), it isn't something someone simply chooses to do, like investing in burger joints. Plus, saying nerds are generally good people seems like a form of elitism to me, even if it's subconscious. I think it's more like people are generally good people. And that TOTALLY depends on how optimistic/cynical you are.

...Also, in response to the extreme nature of internet humor? It is kind of strange, but I imagine it's simply taking the 'comedy is the misfortune of others' thing to its next logical step. I think the web specializes in a "it's so terrible it's funny" type of thing, where the people who are making the jokes and laughing at them understand that they're wrong. All in all, doesn't seem like a bad thing unless it's directed at a specific person. I'm a pretty firm believer in free speech, and I don't think comedy (again, attacking people doesn't count) should have any limitations, at least not as long as more serious genres don't.

 

[Towels]

Thank you Bob. I found this to be incredibly relevant.
As far as group behavior goes, Nerds can be just as cruel to each other. I went to play Ampgard a few years ago (Live Action Medieval Role Play with foam bats as swords.) Instead of friendly banter and competition with folks of similar interest, I walked into an unsupervised anger management session. No thanks, I have my own problems and I don't know or care enough about you to deal with yours. Guess I'm just going to have to go to a fight club where being an asshole is expected.

EDIT: This isn't a statement about Ampgard in general, just the group I went to. The ones I found the most friendly and pleasant were the ones who didn't try and deny they were nerds. The unfriendly ones were in complete denial despite all their chatter about WoW, comic books and other video games, and sadly they were the majority.

 

[Griphphin]

Oh... Yeah... I'm kind of guilty of this. See, I have so much to say on a given subject, and I want to make sure people understand where I'm coming from with my response. Worst part is, sometimes when I come across a long-ass forum post, I only skim through it or pick one thing from the post to comment on, because I just don't feel like reading all that... Kind of hypocritical in that regard...

I'm pretty long-winded myself, for the same reason that you are. So much is lost in translation through text on the internet that if one really wants to convey just what they want to with minimal misunderstanding, he or she really needs to extrapolate and in many cases preemptively clear up possible ways a potential reader could misconstrue the post in question. If I need to type a little bit extra to make sure my post is completely understood by those who take the time to read it, so be it. After all, if you come across as something totally different than you intended, then what was the point of posting at all?

If it's just an opinion thing, I can see how a wall o' text can be a little off-putting, but if one is writing to inform (posting information in a help topic on a game forum, for instance), my motto has always been that it's better to provide more information needed than less. To get a little meta here, the mentality of a lot of people such as bob who would prefer to post a quick, succinct answer at the cost of information lost make those of us who do post at length useful for a more in depth format.

My post turned into one of those long-winded ones as well...! It never ceases to amaze me just how much text ends up on the screen by the time I'm done. Amaze may have been a bit of a euphemism, disconcerted would probably be more apt.
I should just stop typing...

 

[DarthFennec]

Woo. Thank you Bob.
For the first time in a whiilllleee you have spent an episode touching upon all the things that piss me off. I totally agree with you on all points ^^

I do want to add this one thing: While writing a novella when you have a perfectly decent couple sentences in a tl;dr at the end is just annoying as all hell, it's also true that some subjects simply do require more text than others. I want to bring this up because I see it way more often than is comfortable: in the case that the OP has written a short paragraph or two, responding to the post by saying tl;dr makes you look like a total asshole. Either read the damn thing or don't post in the first place.

 

[Kitteh]

Glory be to the ponies and all who love them!

 

[plainlake]

The memes that use racism and attack groups like gingers or even bronies is so obvious it only makes fun of the bully, not everyone understand this though and alot are actual dicks toward other people. The others makes fun of beeing dicks.

 

[vidirg]

I'm sorry but I disagree with the last one memes make fun of everyone, even nerds, but there is a huge difference between internet bullying and memes making fun of some culture, teenege singers are often bullied like Justin Bieber or Rebbecca Black but most of it is just some fun,
if you look through memes then you'll see they are making fun of
nerds, good guys, scumbags, women (mostly with kitchen jokes), freshmen, people on Facebook, Myspace, etc.
If you don't like it when someone makes fun of you then don't check memes

 

[uneek]

I am justice !

I am the night!

 

[Snotnarok]

I agree Bob, I really do enjoy when the forum members talk highly about one game then say "Better than the idiotic MW3 crowd!" like it's okay to pass someone off for a game they like never the less generalize an entire group for their choice of gaming.

Seriously if you knock someone for their gaming choice, you're the asshole. Everyone likes something different, just because you don't agree doesn't mean you should strut around saying how much better you are because Skyrim is more intelligent than Call of Duty.

I don't own MW3 and I'm sure there's assholes in that community, however I'm sure there's plenty of assholes who play Mass Effect and Skyrim.

 

[Something Amyss]

Definitive evidence of MovieBob's Bronydom: That's what I took away from this video. [/small]

Bah! He was clearly being ironic!

>.>