The British public's response to the riots.

[viranimus]

/sigh.

Ok, Ill try to do this in a simple fashion. When you have a system that is built by standing on the neck of large swaths of the populous, then you cannot expect the stepped on to not kick around in resistance.

The riots have transcended the original protest it was spawned from and became representative of groups of people who are sick of things being the way they are. It is asinine to think "They are just being thuggish" "they have no respect for the law" etc when the system that supports the law has no respect for the people.

History has shown that in every civil uprising, there has always been groups of people who think those who are rising up are just being childish and uncivilized. Never has their been a revolution that was not met with resistance of those who were perfectly happy with the Status Quo.

So, I think that what we get here is a case of a one sided argument. The only voice that gets heard is that of the individual who is financially stable enough through whatever means, that they have the luxury of a computer, internet access and the free time to write about how these thuggish ruffians are needlessly interfering with the way things are. If you have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are, then you are not the voice of the people who are pissed off, stealing everything not nailed down and burning everything in their wake.

 

[C95J]

I honestly don't care how the police deal with these guys anymore, if they use rubber bullets and water cannons, go ahead, if they use real bullets, oh well. They have already caused a huge amount of damage, and ruined many peoples lives by destroying, burning, looting from their businesses and buildings. They have beaten innocent people up, put people in hospital, completely messed up their neighbourhoods and surrounding areas all for nothing.

They try using politics to justify what they are doing, but really all they are looking to do is steal everything which isn't bolted down, and cause an incredible amount of mayhem and violence.
Hell, I bet half of them don't even know why they are rioting, or even who Mark Duggan is.

These sort of people are no good to society, and need serious help.

 

[FFKonoko]

Other people have no respect for the people that are rioting without any connection to the original cause, those just taking advantage of the chance to throw stuff and steal stuff. Those that have no respect for all the shop owners or staff, or the fact that the police are people too that have at least as much right to be upset as the family whose gun toting father was shot in self defence.
Considering the vast hoards of computer games and such stolen and being tweeted and posted on facebook, I'd say that a lot of the people doing the looting are hardly cut off from technology and unable to come online.

This is no revolution, it is not glorious, just human nature, taking advantage of a situation and rioting. Civil tension being a tertiary cause is not the same as it being a political revolt or a revolution.

-snip-

And to call it a one sided argument when you yourself seem to be arguing the other side seems to lack some self-awareness.

 

[Daveman]

I think it's just an excuse for people to go out and get a new phone for free. These scumbags aren't doing it for a higher cause or anything, they're petty criminals. Plus what kind of retardation is trashing the area you live in?

The guy, Mark Duggan, who got shot (which apparently set this all in motion) was carrying a gun and was a member of a gang, regardless of the fuck up that ended with him shot nobody should give a shit about him being dead. He had a neck tattoo for fucks sake, if Fable's morality system taught me anything it's that he's clearly evil.

 

[ComprehensiveGoo]

And to call it a one sided argument when you yourself seem to be arguing the other side seems to lack some self-awareness.

It's a one-sided argument because he is the first person I've seen to not take the position of "darn those hooligans, those stupid youths going around and breaking shit for no reason".

All these threads are is one big circle-jerk for the people who think these riots are nothing but hooliganism, with no motive but "Fuck the police, loot shit"

People think it's without real motive except for "Fuck the police" because that's very much the suggestion the rioters are giving. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

 

[Zantos]

I love the support the community is giving the police. There's a brilliant picture that got posted to facebook last night of a couple who went out and made cups of tea on a riot shield for the police who were defending their street. It would have been sad that this was an outcry of a group who had nothing, but they lost all sympathy when they started burning down people's businesses and homes. Now they have nothing either.

 

[GooBeyond]

certain pictures in this thread are not relevant to the topic i assume ....
in other words
WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST SEE ???!?!?

 

[SomeUnregPunk]

/sigh.

Ok, Ill try to do this in a simple fashion. When you have a system that is built by standing on the neck of large swaths of the populous, then you cannot expect the stepped on to not kick around in resistance.

The riots have transcended the original protest it was spawned from and became representative of groups of people who are sick of things being the way they are. It is asinine to think "They are just being thuggish" "they have no respect for the law" etc when the system that supports the law has no respect for the people.

History has shown that in every civil uprising, there has always been groups of people who think those who are rising up are just being childish and uncivilized. Never has their been a revolution that was not met with resistance of those who were perfectly happy with the Status Quo.

So, I think that what we get here is a case of a one sided argument. The only voice that gets heard is that of the individual who is financially stable enough through whatever means, that they have the luxury of a computer, internet access and the free time to write about how these thuggish ruffians are needlessly interfering with the way things are. If you have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are, then you are not the voice of the people who are pissed off, stealing everything not nailed down and burning everything in their wake.

yes... I'm not a person that has worked hard to build my up my shops, bars or other business.
I'm not a person that has worked hard to save the money needed to have a place to live, eat and sleep.
I'm not a person at all. I'm just a symptom of the disease of hard work.
I should be eradicated. My bars, shops, and livelihood should be burned to the ground and my property distributed out. I should be hurt, maimed or killed just so others can have what I worked for because after all I'm just part of disease.

 

[Kryzantine]

I really cannot see the logic in burning down your own city because a criminal was shot.

This reminds me of the intense rioting back in 2008, I think, in Greece.

Actually, if you look at the two incidents together, this is basically the same exact thing, just not as violent as the 2008 riots.

It's not that the guy was a criminal, it's that he was a youth, at 19 years old, and that people believe he was executed by the police. Although I'm willing to wager the majority of rioters now don't care about that specifically, but that's really the same thing that happened in Athens. A bunch of people see that a kid gets shot by cops, that sets them off on protests, some people start getting violent because they're just fed up with their lives or they've got pent up anger, then a lot of people who initially didn't care too much for the incident start taking their anger out, because once the violence is started, there are far less consequences. Rioting is meant to be illogical. It is supposed to be chaos. There isn't going to be a specific point of contention, the only message that is sent is that the youth want a better life and they want it immediately, something which they rarely actually get. Usually, a riot ends when it ends and people have satiated their anger - unless, of course, this is Greece, in which case rioting has been turned into an art form.

 

[Doc Theta Sigma]

And to call it a one sided argument when you yourself seem to be arguing the other side seems to lack some self-awareness.

It's a one-sided argument because he is the first person I've seen to not take the position of "darn those hooligans, those stupid youths going around and breaking shit for no reason".

All these threads are is one big circle-jerk for the people who think these riots are nothing but hooliganism, with no motive but "Fuck the police, loot shit"

Except for the fact of the rioters organising themselves through things like Blackberry Messenger and being made up mostly of teenagers that I doubt have ever paid taxes. So they're not that poor. I accept the problem that is going on with our society but it's not the way to solve it. It's not the way to get your voice heard. There is no excuse.

 

[GeneWard]

I'm pretty scared to be honest. I'm in Birkenhead, next to Liverpool, and I've been losing sleep over this.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

what i hate is the blinkered way the tories are being blamed by (some) people for this.

i'm sorry, but labour going soft on crime and immigration, making people better off claiming benifits than those who work hard, people getting in more trouble for protecting their property than the scum who were trying to steal from them, teachers having zero powers over unruly kids; has led to this.

btw, i am no means a fan of the tories, just hate the way labour are worshipped by some

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Water cannons? Those are an actual weapon?

Unfortunately, I see this as a bunch of paranoia after a tragic event. Equipping the police with guns seems like a rash decision, even if they are only rubber bullets. Plus the resources to train all these officers would cost quite a bit, don't you think?

about 45 seconds in..that shit is serious business, take scalding hot water + insane speeds = you not wanting to be the fuck near or around it.

that shit hurts (haven't been hit by a water cannon, but a firefighter hose yeah, which was used at a time to control riots, and that shit isn't a nerf water gun.)

 

[UmJammerSully]

And to call it a one sided argument when you yourself seem to be arguing the other side seems to lack some self-awareness.

It's a one-sided argument because he is the first person I've seen to not take the position of "darn those hooligans, those stupid youths going around and breaking shit for no reason".

All these threads are is one big circle-jerk for the people who think these riots are nothing but hooliganism, with no motive but "Fuck the police, loot shit"

THAT'S BECAUSE IT IS.

Go watch amatuer footage of these people in the streets, or hell, go watch some of them being interviewed. It's incredibly obvious to anyone why they are really doing this. I grew up with these people, they do not give a shit about anything and this is all a way for them to feel macho and of course steal some cool shit. They are morally bankrupt and to suggest they are doing this for some greater cause was initially funny, but now it's annoying and just needs to stop.

Sure, maybe there are some rioters out there with real motives. But they are the vast minority and the shitheads that are burning everything in sight have ruined any credibility that minority had.

I'm not sure if you have some higher faith in humanity that I don't or something, but there really are people out there that just want to break shit for the fun of it, it's hard to believe I know...

 

[Kukakkau]

Can anyone actually tell me why they are rioting? I've been watching the news since I first heard about them and not heard anything as to why, only small mentions of them not acting like protestors?

And on topic I'm just glad it hasn't spread to Scotland yet, the stuff I did see was pretty sick with someone running over and killing 3 asians hit and run style, acting like they were helping someone who was beaten but actually stealing from him and firebombing police stations.

Judging by the fact the news keeps mentioning gangs involvement etc I'd say step up it up from rubber bullets for them. But water cannons and rubber bullets should be fine in keeping normal people rioting in line. I know that's a controversial/tricky statement but if you go around saying you are in a gang to cause violence/trouble you should be freed of your oxygen habit

 

[Uszi]

I'm not necessarily going to jump into the same water as the, "The British have been too soft on the Rioters!" Certainly, people have been pushed to this extreme and that should be considered by the government.

But when it's this bad, its time to bust out the bean bags and the hoses and the foam. There's a line between protest and looting/being dicks.

The articles linked in the OP were awesome though. It's always good to see confirmation that there are awesome people out there, and that a whole community of them lives in London.

 

[AndrewC]

As long as they don't try and start rioting here in Scotland.

Never anger a Scotsman, we have Nessie.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

And to call it a one sided argument when you yourself seem to be arguing the other side seems to lack some self-awareness.

It's a one-sided argument because he is the first person I've seen to not take the position of "darn those hooligans, those stupid youths going around and breaking shit for no reason".

All these threads are is one big circle-jerk for the people who think these riots are nothing but hooliganism, with no motive but "Fuck the police, loot shit"

THAT'S BECAUSE IT IS.

Go watch amatuer footage of these people in the streets, or hell, go watch some of them being interviewed. It's incredibly obvious to anyone why they are really doing this. I grew up with these people, they do not give a shit about anything and this is all a way for them to feel macho and of course steal some cool shit. They are morally bankrupt and to suggest they are doing this for some greater cause was initially funny, but now it's annoying and just needs to stop.

Sure, maybe there are some rioters out there with real motives. But they are the vast minority and the shitheads that are burning everything in sight have ruined any credibility that minority had.

I'm not sure if you have some higher faith in humanity that I don't or something, but there really are people out there that just want to break shit for the fun of it, it's hard to believe I know...

I second this.

As a criminology graduate, I should look deeper into the socialogical issues that may have triggered this, but sometimes, it's just easier to call the rioters a bunch of selfish cunts, because at the end of the day, that's what they are.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

/sigh.

So, I think that what we get here is a case of a one sided argument. The only voice that gets heard is that of the individual who is financially stable enough through whatever means, that they have the luxury of a computer, internet access and the free time to write about how these thuggish ruffians are needlessly interfering with the way things are. If you have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are, then you are not the voice of the people who are pissed off, stealing everything not nailed down and burning everything in their wake.

so i should be scared in my home because they feel hard done by?
ive worked hard to rent my home, yet a few mins drive away they are rioting. alot of this has been organised via BBM, if they can afford blackberrys, and to post pictures online, i dont feel too sorry for them. i do feel sorry for myself and the other people, families, hard worked business that are terrorised by these... well, terrorists.

these people do not represent the majority