The Bureau: XCOM Declassified Preview

MrGalactus

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Sep 18, 2010
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I have never in my life ever played a "tactical" TPS or FPS in which you couldn't replace all the tactics with "ignore squad, shoot enemies"
 

Bindal

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May 14, 2012
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Parakeettheprawn said:
Oh, Syndicate. Yes, what perfect example of fans overreacting and missing what it actually does different in the new genre its in. It was my bloody FPS GOTY in 2012 http://www.gameinformer.com/blogs/members/b/paradigmthefallen_blog/archive/2012/12/07/why-starbreeze-39-s-syndicate-is-my-fps-goty.aspx and I'm not alone in this sentiment. There is a cult following that bloody well loved the game. You know most of the people who didn't? People upset because it wasn't isometric perspective. I'm sorry if the change in camera perspective and only managing one agent was so hard for you, now excuse me while I enjoy the closest hybrid available of Bioshock and Mirror's Edge. In fact, there's an even better summary of what made the game work than I wrote way back in 2012: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6LgIr1gqnk
Never been fan of the original (in fact, I never played it) and Syndicate still sucked a lot in my oppinion. And that had less to do with "change of genre" (even that was quite obviously a factor) and more with "was shitty idea". I think, Yathzee put it best in that case:
Those, that don't remember or know the original can't be lured in with the brand-recognition.
Those, that do, don't want a different genre because the genre is part of the reason they liked the original game.
But apparently, you just want "moar guuunz" in every game, so why should I even care about your opinion? Bet you would like if FPS would be the ONLY genre out there.

Parakeettheprawn said:
Also, when did the XCOM FPS just become "run around and shoot aliens" let alone the fact that there'd even be investigation missions where you might not even find any aliens? If anything, -this- version is more like that than the original concept 2K Marin had. And no, they did a demo in 2011 (if memory serves right) that featured squad commands, investigation, base management, -and- shooting all combined. These cases of selective memory are starting to get a little ridiculous.
Sorry, Memory serves you wrong to some degree - the original concept was "one guy shooting aliens". The shown demo was already when they decided to go to this game.
 

Parakeettheprawn

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Bindal said:
Never been fan of the original (in fact, I never played it) and Syndicate still sucked a lot in my oppinion. And that had less to do with "change of genre" (even that was quite obviously a factor) and more with "was shitty idea". I think, Yathzee put it best in that case:
Those, that don't remember or know the original can't be lured in with the brand-recognition.
Those, that do, don't want a different genre because the genre is part of the reason they liked the original game.
But apparently, you just want "moar guuunz" in every game, so why should I even care about your opinion? Bet you would like if FPS would be the ONLY genre out there.
First -- I came because of the slick, consistently nice style, the smooth controls that CoD wishes it has, some of the most enjoyable sound design and combat this side of Dead Space, and because I like cyber-punk. Hell they even managed to make me like a dubstep remix of the original theme, and I generally detest dubstep. It doesn't matter if it's an FPS to me so long as it's actually promising looking -- AND IT WAS, therefore I happily bought it, on PC no less, and put up with Origin just to play it. Does that get it into your skull just how much I actually was intrigued by the game, why I put 30+ hours into it? ORIGIN is on my PC!

Oh yes, because throw insults if you can't get your way. I guess I really must be a big hypocrite then considering I love: Persona 2, Aether, Culmination, Super Meat Boy, The Force Unleashed, DmC, Heavenly Sword, every taste I can get of Injustice: Gods Among Us, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories , X-Wing Alliance, Tiny & Big: Grandpa's Leftovers, LEGO Rock Raiders, Blur, inFamous, KotOR 2, Vindictus, every taste I can get of Gravity Rush, and the Walking Dead. Some of these have no weapons at all, I must be going crazy!

Lets compare that list with the list of shooters I love: Killzone 3, Homefront, darkSector) Saboteur, Syndicate, Metro 2033, Warframe, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Mass Effect 2, Jedi Knight 1-2, Dead Space 1-3, Bioshock 1-3, Spec Ops: The Line, Dark Void.

Most of those are either have added RPG/Survival mechanics (Dead Space 1-3, Bioshock 1-3, Metro 2033, Deus Ex: Human Revolution) or have tweaks or entirely new wrinkles to the combat or the way the game modes work (Dark Void, darkSector, Saboteur, Dead Space, Homefront, Syndicate, Mass Effect 2, Jedi Knight 1-2, Spec Ops: The Line) Sorry, no CoD or Battlefield for you to further try to stereotype me since you clearly can't actually argue in a civilized manner.

Bindal said:
Sorry, Memory serves you wrong to some degree - the original concept was "one guy shooting aliens". The shown demo was already when they decided to go to this game.
Well shit, you better tell PC Gamer right now cause that guy's saying *gasp* the exact same thing! -- http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/the-bureau-xcom-declassified-preview-why-this-isnt-the-xcom-i-wanted/2/

But of course, I imagine next you're either going to dismiss it or state that one person's other recollections don't matter. Okay then -- http://kotaku.com/5569585/xcom-by-any-other-name-could-be-great even a previewer who outright got up in the issue of the name and classification found the developers were trying their damnedest to please fans even though they themselves knew they what they were trying to make. But everyone assumed they knew better, and 2K unfortunately tried to listened to the fans (something most publishers/devs are criticized for nto doing) even though they were actually trying to give 2K Marin the kind of freedom they gave Yager with Spec Ops: The Line. Yeah. THAT kind of freedom. Not just "make us an XCOM game, meet these goals we have set" like you'd expect from say, EA. They were giving them genuine creative freedom. And the only reason that got taken away, was because 2K got worried due to fans.

You can't seriously tell me there isn't even a possibility that it's majorly the fandom's harsh reaction that's caused us to end up with The Bureau. People went ten years complaining about Paralax in Green Lantern rather than just moving on with their lives, so it's not a hard stretch of the imagination. I've been watching this thing from the sidelines since it was first announced, and was one of its earliest supporters. I don't care if it's an FPS -- I'd take it as a Persona clone if that somehow worked (it actually in theory really could, a number of XCOM's ideas work in that sort of set up) -- I just want something other than "XCOM:EU, but as a TPS". That doesn't interest me. I hated XCOM:EU due to the horrible writing, questionable balancing (and I'm not bitching about losing either, I'm talking about balance in general), and downright awful PC port that crashed my game and deleted my saves, and even when it did work right, it wasn't some high concept strategy game. It was a consolification of XCOM, the exact thing almost any other fan base seems to complain about.

But every XCOM "Hardcore" fan doesn't dare touch those "guuuunz" because there isn't possibly (Ghost Recon) in any way (Rainbow Six) that they could even potentially (Warframe) offer them strategy (Almost every tactical shooter on ModDB!). I love this sheer level of 180 degree hypocritical thinking. It's fine if you want it to be an isometric turn-based chess game, but if I want it to test my reflexes and observation skills and management skills, well then that's just wrong because games that involving shooting are popular. Are you seriously prioritizing maintaining a genre even if the quality of said genre is sub-par in comparison to its progeny?

There's a reason 2K passed over the original XCOM:EU demo and wanted to go with XCOM the FPS, beyond just the "FPS games sell more" mentality. The fact they've pushed out games like Spec Ops, Bioshock, and Mafia II should make it rather clear that they have faith enough in games that developers want to make instead of just number games. Yager's still making -yet another- game for the PS4 and I bet you 2K is publishing it even though Spec Ops didn't sell well because they -know- it was a good game. It had it's flaws, but it was a good game. Similarly, even though they at first decided to not release anything but multiplayer DLC for the PC version of Bioshock 2, they actually went the extra mile, talked to fans, and not only gave them one piece of SP DLC for free, but gave us a full, non-buggy port of Minerva's Den. Their community managers even provided assets from the DLC back when it was still a console exclusive to the fan wikis so that they could properly provide images and icons on the wikipages.

These guys are the anti-EA in so many ways (I'm not saying their Valve but they certainly are not EA), but you can't trust them on their opinion on whether a hybrid game that might involve some first person shooting as well is going to be good? Then what's the point of them even trying? Most of the complaints only have resulted in the game getting further and further towards Enemy Unknown as a TPS, less like a real, authentic feeling XCOM game.

Perma-death and variables don't make a game XCOM, what makes a game XCOM is tension, the unknown, a feeling like every win only puts off the inevitable, and painful decision making. All of those could be done in plenty of genres beyond turn-based squad combat. It doesn't even need to be an FPS, it just needs to be something different. Because if we don't ever try anything different, all we end up with is the sequel-athon that Yahtzee and many others groan about.

I'm sorry if it doesn't fit your every wish and whim, but please kindly get over yourself and realize we all have wishes and wants, and I've silently let a lot of things go that I could have certainly bitched about. You want to see me get started on Lucas Arts? Or Dragon Age: Origins? Or hell, even that Avengers game that was going to be a first person brawler/platformer/shooter co-op hybrid? No, and I don't have the time to. I just want a bloody XCOM game that isn't old as dirt and requires a user manual to figure out how to control the main squad, and I don't want one that crashes at random and refuses to save my games that everyone keeps telling me is their "strategy game of the year" when all I see is a hot mess that I wasted 29 hours trying to find something good to say about in my user review. But even despite everything, you got what you claim you wanted, there's even an old-school Syndicate style indie game in development that PC Gamer was talking about a while back -- so stop making hell for people like me who want something else. If you don't like it, just don't buy it. No one's demanding you support it, but we sure are tired of your moaning.

Not that I'm at all tired of hearing it...