The Changing Meaning of 'Fag'

PumpItUp

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2008
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WARNING: Some possibly offensive language will be used in the thread below. If you are the kind of person who is easily offended, you might want to stick around. If you're easily offended AND like to pick fights in forums, piss off. Intelligent thoughts only please. Thank you.

Now a couple weeks ago I happened across South Park's most recent foray into the satirization of foul language, the lampooning of the current uses of the term 'fag'. It centered around the children of South Park calling an annoying group of Harley-riding jerks 'fags' seemingly completely oblivious to its connotation as a modern slur toward gays. They simply saw someone they didn't like and simply called them fags.

Now think of the brats on XBoxLive. How many times have you heard some irritating little 8-year-old idiot call someone who pwned him 'fag' in his whiny, little voice? If you're the average XBL player, probably more than you'd like. But have you ever stopped to consider if they know what they're saying, or ask them if they know what the words leaving their pitchy vocal chords actually mean?

I don't actually think that they do know (and if they do, they're just "showing off" in that annoying faux-macho manner our generation did during our middle/high school years). But therein lies the issue at hand: these kids don't use the word 'fag' in its (currently) accepted connotation, gay people, but instead substitute a different meaning (People I don't like") in its place.

Now I pose a question to you: Should the current meaning behind 'fag' change, why, and if so, how?

For starters I'll put forward three future options, feel free to add your own (within reason).

1) Segregation, aka the '******' route
'******' is undeniably a negative word, used originally as an insult to blacks. It was segregated from the other vulgarities, and is now only used by the people it was used to insult (ironies abound!)
Result: The word is deemed unacceptable by the grand majority of society and is only acceptable by a small subsection of the population and then only in particular situations.
See also: **** (outside Britain)

2) Detoxification, aka the '************' route
'************' should the most disgusting and unacceptable word in the English language, what with the incest connotation as clear as day (fucker of mothers). But instead, people use it like its no big deal; it's just another way of saying asshole.
Result: The original meaning of the word is completely absent in its modern usage, usurped by another, less offensive meaning.
See also: Son-of-a-*****, douchebag, dick, etc.

3) Obsolescence, aka the 'Humbug' route
For context, 'humbug' was the 19th century equivalent to 'bullshit' (Remember that next time you see Scrooge in 'A Christmas Carol'). Nowadays, hearing someone say humbug seems so antiquated and silly, even though it was immensly offensive at the time.
Result: The word becomes out-of-date and obsolete, likely making room for another word to take its place.
See also: Gay, as in "happy"

So again:
Should the current meaning behind 'fag' change, why, and if so, how?
 

BonsaiK

Music Industry Corporate Whore
Nov 14, 2007
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Words don't change their meaning just because someone decrees it. They change because language, especially slang, naturally evolves.

"Fag" comes from "******" which originially meant "a stick". The reason why it got associated with homosexuals is because it was a practice in more medieval times to burn them, using sticks as kindling for the fire.

Now "fag" refers to the homosexual people themselves, but the meaning is starting to change again. A lot of pro-gay/lesbian groups are using the word 'fag' openly as an empowering statement (just like they've already done with 'queer', also like your 'humbug' example, and like rappers will eventually achieve with the word '******') so that means that the insult is losing its power to offend. Also, the incredible overuse it gets from young people playing computer games in many different contexts shows that the meaning is in fact already changing. The meaning of 'fag' will probably morph into a generic term for someone you don't like, kind of like "idiot", and some new insult will then probably be thought up for homosexuals.

So I guess that's a combination between 2 and 3.
 

GodKlown

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Dec 16, 2009
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Interesting question, but unless you are part of the gay community, you don't really get a say in the matter of changing the definition of the word. Generally, "fag" does refer to someone acting foolish or annoying, not neccesarily as a homosexual and their stereotypes. Oftentimes in the company of homosexuals, they don't take offense to the general use of that word, unless directed towards them.
Considering we have so many other adjectives to use, it is surprising that kids even still say that word to each other. Really, the effect of the word has lost potency over the years and amounts to nothing hurtful towards a heterosexual anymore. It has devolved into a kid's word really, as once you get past the age of 12, you don't get in the habit of calling anyone that once you have a better understand of the word.
It almost seems like a waste of time to entertain the thought of altering the definition to allow adults the ability to use the word since we graduated to much harsher language. But I do agree, XBL should really do something to curb the rampant use of the word. It is highly abused by minors on there and ruins the desire to play with kids like that. My advice? Call them something more creative to expand their limited vocabularies.
 

Pimppeter2

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Dec 31, 2008
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No it shouldn't

Sure, they are using the term without the direct connotation. Even when used as "People I don't like" its still has the reference to homosexuals.

If I call you a fag to tell you I don't like you, I'm labeling you as someone inferior. It still has the same hurtful meaning. Like if I were to call you a ni**er (with hate, not the hip context) it doesn't mean your black. It means that I think you're inferior. Essentially the meaning of both those words when they were created. They're hateful words.

Instead of changing the definition, we should stop using the words all together. But there I'm off in my little fantasy world again.
 

Frequen-Z

Resident Batman fanatic.
Apr 22, 2009
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Does 'fag' double up as another word for cigarette globally or is it just England?
 

Ironic Pirate

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May 21, 2009
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Frequen-Z said:
Does 'fag' double up as another word for cigarette globally or is it just England?
It can, but there's so many assosciated snickers and giggles that it rarely is.
 

Pandalisk

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Jan 25, 2009
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Frequen-Z said:
Does 'fag' double up as another word for cigarette globally or is it just England?
Americans from my experiance call them "Cigs" Which actually makes sence
 

BonsaiK

Music Industry Corporate Whore
Nov 14, 2007
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Frequen-Z said:
Does 'fag' double up as another word for cigarette globally or is it just England?
In Australia it does also. Once again, this dates back to the original meaning of "******" - a stick that might be used to light a fire. This is rarely used now though because the generic insult usage of the word 'fag' is so much more common that that's what people automatically think of when they hear the word. There was even a brand of fake candy cigarettes (they were just lollies, you couldn't actually smoke them) in Australia that were actually called 'fags'. About ten years ago they changed the name of them to 'fads' for the same reason.
 

ChildofGallifrey

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May 26, 2008
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Frequen-Z said:
Does 'fag' double up as another word for cigarette globally or is it just England?
I don't think it holds much clout outside England, or at least Europe. I promise if you walk up to your buddies in America and ask to *fingerquotes* bum a fag, your friends will ostracize you immediately and, if they're particularly macho, probably kick the shit out of you.
 

Cliff_m85

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Feb 6, 2009
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3. Three. THREE!

Lenny Bruce explained it better than anyone else can. If you hear a word often enough it loses it's offensiveness. If we said ****** constantly then ****** would die out and just be another word. Making it a 'bad word' gives it all the power. Intent is what matters, not the word itself!
 

Vault boy Eddie

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Feb 18, 2009
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If you read The Lord of the Ring books, you will see burn the ****** alot in it. How surprinsing they never say it in the movies. Why? Cause people are immature, people change the meaning of words to feel superior to others so ifthey had done that in the movies that would have been all people talked about, cause humanity sucks.
 

omega 616

Elite Member
May 1, 2009
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BonsaiK said:
Words don't change their meaning just because someone decrees it. They change because language, especially slang, naturally evolves.

"Fag" comes from "******" which originially meant "a stick". The reason why it got associated with homosexuals is because it was a practice in more medieval times to burn them, using sticks as kindling for the fire.

Now "fag" refers to the homosexual people themselves, but the meaning is starting to change again. A lot of pro-gay/lesbian groups are using the word 'fag' openly as an empowering statement (just like they've already done with 'queer', also like your 'humbug' example, and like rappers will eventually achieve with the word '******') so that means that the insult is losing its power to offend. Also, the incredible overuse it gets from young people playing computer games in many different contexts shows that the meaning is in fact already changing. The meaning of 'fag' will probably morph into a generic term for someone you don't like, kind of like "idiot", and some new insult will then probably be thought up for homosexuals.

So I guess that's a combination between 2 and 3.
Pretty sure it was first a large Scottish meatball.

On topic. Do you get offended by somebody who you are never going to meet and doesn't know you, especially by such an immature word?
 

SnootyEnglishman

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May 26, 2009
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It's just a word used by ignorant asswipes to disavow a culture they have not yet begun to try and understand. Fag is also a british idiom for cigarette it should just stay that way so no one gets confused
 

Tirin

Regular Member
Oct 17, 2008
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Two. I just use '******' as a substitute for asshole, douchebag, jackass, or whatever, if pretty uncommonly. A simple term of dislike. And sometimes affection in my case, actually...

But the trend is, people in my area oftentimes use '******' to mean they're calling someone gay, and imply that it's a bad thing, since way too many people around my age are a bunch of homophobic jerks. Adults don't do it, intelligent or tolerant people don't do it, but that constitutes far too small a percentage of the population of my school.
 

Dahni

Lemon Meringue Tie
Aug 18, 2009
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when someone says fag to me, I just think of a cigarette. That's what we call cigarettes around here.

it also makes me think of that shitty meatball my gran makes every christmas which is essentially everything BUT the nice tasting parts of animals squashed together.

Those are the only things I ever think when I see "fag" being used as an insult. I end up imagining the insulted as a giant cigarette/meatball and I laugh.
 

Deleted

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Jul 25, 2009
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I always saw it as:

Fag/******: 1. A person who acts overly homosexual whether they are or not. An annoying personality that is often paired up with "metro-sexual men". Vibrant clothes, loud and boisterous, wanting to put his sexuality into the current discussion no matter what, etc. This is different than a straight gay. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StraightGay]
2. Someone who is primarily known for one obsession/habit, eg. "xboxfag" "furfag" there is no homosexual connotation in this definition.
 

BloodyThoughts

EPIC PIRATE DANCE PARTY!
Jan 4, 2010
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Dude, it's a joke from South Park, get over it.
Douk said:
I always saw it as:

Fag/******: 1. A person who acts overly homosexual whether they are or not. An annoying personality that is often paired up with "metro-sexual men". Vibrant clothes, loud and boisterous, wanting to put his sexuality into the current discussion no matter what, etc.
2. Someone who is primarily known for one obsession/habit, eg. "xboxfag" "furfag" there is no homosexual connotation in this definition.
and this....ty random person.
 

aPod

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Jan 14, 2010
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What did you call me?

Kidding aside, words that are used to demean or put down a particular group will always have the stigma of being offensive no matter how hard someone tried to reclaim the word. For me i'll never use the n word. I can't even write it out, theres just something ingrained in my that says 'best keep away' I'm not afraid of seeming rascist or something like that because i know i am not, but the word itself is bad to me.

Oddly enough 'fag' doesnt cause the same impulse in me. I use the word when i am both joking with my friends, and verbally insulting someone i genuinely dislike. It's become alot like the word fuck for many people. Something that should be offensive thats become so prevalent in society it no longer holds the potency it once might have.

Given time im sure 'fag' will become as taboo as the n word though. I'm ok with that.
 

rees263

The Lone Wanderer
Jun 4, 2009
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I see what you're saying, and I agree that to an extent the usage of the word is already shifting towards a less offensive term. However, the acceptance of the word changing meaning will not come until people stop taking offense from the word, which might be a long time from now.

Also:

PumpItUp said:
1) Segregation, aka the '******' route
'******' is undeniably a negative word, used originally as an insult to blacks. It was segregated from the other vulgarities, and is now only used by the people it was used to insult (ironies abound!)
Result: The word is deemed unacceptable by the grand majority of society and is only acceptable by a small subsection of the population and then only in particular situations.
See also: **** (outside Britain)
I wondered what you meant by this - I didn't know Britain regarded '****' differently from the rest of the world?