The Changing Meaning of 'Fag'

[Avatar Roku]

No it shouldn't

Sure, they are using the term without the direct connotation. Even when used as "People I don't like" its still has the reference to homosexuals.

If I call you a fag to tell you I don't like you, I'm labeling you as someone inferior. It still has the same hurtful meaning. Like if I were to call you a ni**er (with hate, not the hip context) it doesn't mean your black. It means that I think you're inferior. Essentially the meaning of both those words when they were created. They're hateful words.

Instead of changing the definition, we should stop using the words all together. But there I'm off in my little fantasy world again.

Come now Pimp, you know that's not how language works. Just as appears to be the case with the word "communism", it doesn't matter what the word actually means, only how it's been accepted by the majority. Because really, language's sole purpose is to convey meaning, so if enough people use "fag" to denote the same thing as "asshole", that's what the meaning shifts to, and eventually it loses it's connection to homosexuality altogether.

As for your last line, that's exactly what we shouldn't do. Generally, continued use of a word makes it lose it's original meaning and potency. Holding it up as a bad word we should stop using gives it relevance as it is now. Look at the word ******. If it wasn't held up as the poster child of racial slurs, do you think it would have even remotely the same relevance it does now? If you think a word is bad, you encourage its use in a different context, because banning it's use altogether puts in on a pedestal.

 

[ReincarnatedFTP]

Meh.
I'm still fighting the habit of using "gay" as an insult. I'm not homophobic, and I'm pro-gay marriage and pretty liberal. It's just one of those linguistic habits.

Recently someone brought up the term "horcrux" and I was said "gayyy" for referring to Harry Potter. I thought nothing of it. I've read all the books in the series, and I don't have an opinion on the series at all besides "meh, some good some bad". I just used the word because I felt like annoying the other person, and IME "gay" has always had two modern meanings depending on context (noone uses it for "happy" anymore).

Fag/gay is more similar to a racial slur or ethnic slur and slightly more severe than "retarded" though. I realize retarded is an actual condition that people go through, but honestly, it would suck to be retarded.I don't have people whine and moralize about how people call drugs "cancerous" on society or such and such as a "tumor" when cancer patients exist.

More relevant to OP: 1,2,and 3 are all happening to a degree. Right now, I think 1 is fading, 2 is gonna be here for a while and may become it. 3 may happen in some communities, but I doubt it will be widespread.

 

[quiet_samurai]

The word ****** has only really been seen as offensive in the last 50 years or so. Back in the day, and still some plsces in the south, that word was a common term thrown around freely. My grandma to this day still says the word ****** occasionaly because she comes from a time when it really wasn't considered offensive. I think that the word fag may also travel this route. When we are old and aggrivated at someone and call then a fag, our grandchildren will no doubt be astounded at or profanity and sheer gall to use such a word.

But as far as I feel about the term fag. When I was growing up, calling someone a fag didn't actually apply to them being a homosexual, If I called someone a fag they were just being a ...fag. They were being faggy. If my friend complained about having to walk far, I'd tell him to not be such a whiney fag. If my friend threw a rock at me, I would tell him to quit being a fag and quit. It's universal, and most people don't actually attach a homosexual stigma to it. Never have I referred to someone as being a fag and have the people around me question that person's sexual orientation..... ever.


People are just sensitive nowadays because our lives are so easy compared to past generations that we need to find something to be miserable about, no matter how silly it really is.

 

[Pimppeter2]

No it shouldn't

Sure, they are using the term without the direct connotation. Even when used as "People I don't like" its still has the reference to homosexuals.

If I call you a fag to tell you I don't like you, I'm labeling you as someone inferior. It still has the same hurtful meaning. Like if I were to call you a ni**er (with hate, not the hip context) it doesn't mean your black. It means that I think you're inferior. Essentially the meaning of both those words when they were created. They're hateful words.

Instead of changing the definition, we should stop using the words all together. But there I'm off in my little fantasy world again.

Come now Pimp, you know that's not how language works. Just as appears to be the case with the word "communism", it doesn't matter what the word actually means, only how it's been accepted by the majority. Because really, language's sole purpose is to convey meaning, so if enough people use "fag" to denote the same thing as "asshole", that's what the meaning shifts to, and eventually it loses it's connection to homosexuality altogether.

As for your last line, that's exactly what we shouldn't do. Generally, continued use of a word makes it lose it's original meaning and potency. Holding it up as a bad word we should stop using gives it relevance as it is now. Look at the word ******. If it wasn't held up as the poster child of racial slurs, do you think it would have even remotely the same relevance it does now? If you think a word is bad, you encourage its use in a different context, because banning it's use altogether puts in on a pedestal.

But even if its accepted by the majority, it still holds its connotation. For example, there's this guy at my brother's work. He's very quite and shy. My brother calls him a fag. now, my brother doesn't believe this man is a homosexual, but due to his feminine characteristics, he's labeled gay by my brother and his friends. Same thing goes with online, when someone calls you a fag. They do it because they either Bested you (making them superior) or they're calling you weird. See, they don't actually feel that you are gay, but the connotation basically stays.

I'm not suggesting we ban the words, but just to stop using them. There's really no reason to, they don't make much sense in context, aren't very offensive (has anyone ever called you ni**er? Did you laugh in his face?). Sure, I'm all for it changing its meaning, but are fag and ni**er such important words that we should change their definition so that we can use them socially?

 

[ChaosDragon]

-snip-

-snip again-

But even if its accepted by the majority, it still holds its connotation. For example, there's this guy at my brother's work. He's very quite and shy. My brother calls him a fag. now, my brother doesn't believe this man is a homosexual, but due to his feminine characteristics, he's labeled gay by my brother and his friends. Same thing goes with online, when someone calls you a fag. They do it because they either Bested you (making them superior) or they're calling you weird. See, they don't actually feel that you are gay, but the connotation basically stays.

I'm not suggesting we ban the words, but just to stop using them. There's really no reason to, they don't make much sense in context, aren't very offensive (has anyone ever called you ni**er? Did you laugh in his face?). Sure, I'm all for it changing its meaning, but are fag and ni**er such important words that we should change their definition so that we can use them socially?

By banning a particular word it sends you on a slippery slope, I think. Our fundamental right to free speech would be irrevocably altered.

As for your suggestion to "stop using" a particular word; how would any government body enforce that? That's impossible to do even IF you managed to change society's way of thinking. The only way to completely eradicate a word from common usage would be just to drop it from our collective consciousness.

It's hard enough to change an intelligent person's view on a certain matter. With the teeming mouth-breathing masses that is the internet; multiply that difficulty to the power of a hundred. It would be like trying to convert everyone to one religion or some-such.

 

[Plurralbles]

Basically south park did it best.

It's a synonym for fucktard. I would never call a gay person a fag for their sexual preference. It doesn't carry that meaning to me.(though to the public it does, so I refrain just to stay out of that shit)

 

[BonsaiK]

Words don't change their meaning just because someone decrees it. They change because language, especially slang, naturally evolves.

"Fag" comes from "******" which originially meant "a stick". The reason why it got associated with homosexuals is because it was a practice in more medieval times to burn them, using sticks as kindling for the fire.

Now "fag" refers to the homosexual people themselves, but the meaning is starting to change again. A lot of pro-gay/lesbian groups are using the word 'fag' openly as an empowering statement (just like they've already done with 'queer', also like your 'humbug' example, and like rappers will eventually achieve with the word '******') so that means that the insult is losing its power to offend. Also, the incredible overuse it gets from young people playing computer games in many different contexts shows that the meaning is in fact already changing. The meaning of 'fag' will probably morph into a generic term for someone you don't like, kind of like "idiot", and some new insult will then probably be thought up for homosexuals.

So I guess that's a combination between 2 and 3.

Pretty sure it was first a large Scottish meatball.

On topic. Do you get offended by somebody who you are never going to meet and doesn't know you, especially by such an immature word?

I think the stick came first, the meatball thing would have come into it later because in the old days you would have to use a flame fired by sticks ("fags") to cook the meatball.

I'm not easily offended, I just think the person's being silly and I mute them. Then I don't think about it.

 

[ddq5]

2. Someone who is primarily known for one obsession/habit, eg. "xboxfag" "furfag" there is no homosexual connotation in this definition.

If anything, I think this is the version that should die. It's just so... annoying sounding.
I've never called a homosexual "fag" and I've never really used the word without irony or sarcasm. If someone told me that I made them uncomfortable by saying it, I wouldn't say it. It's not really a big deal to me. The only thing about it that irks me is that it's just so plain. We really need more colorful insults that don't roll off the tongue of 12-year-olds on XBL as easily.

 

[Ph0t0n1c Ph34r]

Words don't change their meaning just because someone decrees it. They change because language, especially slang, naturally evolves. snip.

I belive I have been "ninja'd" as it where. I belive the new hot key insult to coming up will be "Ham-jockey."

 

[PumpItUp]

Interesting question, but unless you are part of the gay community, you don't really get a say in the matter of changing the definition of the word.

Not necessarily. Everyday language, the foul stuff especially, tends to change based upon the interpretation of general society (usually starting with the young, rebellious generation), not that of a particular group of individuals.

No it shouldn't. Sure, they are using the term without the direct connotation. Even when used as "People I don't like" its still has the reference to homosexuals.

So if you were to use 'fag' to describe a gay person, would you also be referring to a cigarette? Or a bundle of sticks on fire? Does every word we use today also connote every previous meaning of said word? Or do some meanings just die out after a certain amount of time?

Dude, it's a joke from South Park, get over it.

Most of the jokes South Park does are actually culturally relevant since most are based to some extent on current events. The "Niggerguy" episode was done shortly after some idiot white guy said '******' on public TV and then apologized directly to Rev. Al Sharpton, as if he was the king of all black people, which is mocked in the show.

I didn't know Britain regarded '****' differently from the rest of the world?

Yeah, in America and friends, **** is heavily laden with sexist undertones, being applicable only to women (vagina, pussy, snatch, etc.) and is put up there with '******' and '******' as Do-Not-Say-Period words.
In (most of) Britain, it is another equivalent of ************: not a nice word, but one you can call your friends without losing them.

 

[brainsurgery101]

The word ****** has only really been seen as offensive in the last 50 years or so. Back in the day, and still some plsces in the south, that word was a common term thrown around freely. My grandma to this day still says the word ****** occasionaly because she comes from a time when it really wasn't considered offensive. I think that the word fag may also travel this route. When we are old and aggrivated at someone and call then a fag, our grandchildren will no doubt be astounded at or profanity and sheer gall to use such a word.

But as far as I feel about the term fag. When I was growing up, calling someone a fag didn't actually apply to them being a homosexual, If I called someone a fag they were just being a ...fag. They were being faggy. If my friend complained about having to walk far, I'd tell him to not be such a whiney fag. If my friend threw a rock at me, I would tell him to quit being a fag and quit. It's universal, and most people don't actually attach a homosexual stigma to it. Never have I referred to someone as being a fag and have the people around me question that person's sexual orientation..... ever.


People are just sensitive nowadays because our lives are so easy compared to past generations that we need to find something to be miserable about, no matter how silly it really is.

Whoa whoa whoa... what time have you grown up in that term "fag" is not considered a term for homosexuality? Do you come from future? Are you a time traveler? I'm pretty sure that the era you speak of has not occurred yet, therefore negating either your argument or, more interestingly, your existence.

 

[Daveman]

Generally, "fag" does refer to someone acting foolish or annoying, not neccesarily as a homosexual and their stereotypes.

This, also fag can refer to an annoying or tedious action. "I hate my homework, it is such a fag."

But seriously, surely the word used doesn't matter, just the meaning that the user gives it?

 

[PumpItUp]

It's a synonym for fucktard. I would never call a gay person a fag for their sexual preference. It doesn't carry that meaning to me.(though to the public it does, so I refrain just to stay out of that shit)

You just reminded me of something. For those of you who follow American politics, one of the Democrat higher-ups called liberals "retarded". Sarah Palin immediately accused him of insulting disabled (specifically her disabled) children and asked that he be fired. You know what he did? He apologized to the head of the Paralympics! It's clear to any sane person that he was using 'retarded' to mean "stupid or idiotic", not "mentally challenged" and yet...

This is of course one of the difficulties of changing the meaning of offensive words: some people, usually retards (idiots), will insist that, even when the intention is clearly not derogatory to a specific group, they still insist they we not use the word for fear of insulting the retarded (unintelligent) few who still cling to the insulting meaning. Political correctness limits the advancement and possible detoxification of venomous words which you think these retards (politicians) would be in favour of.

 

[Plurralbles]

It's a synonym for fucktard. I would never call a gay person a fag for their sexual preference. It doesn't carry that meaning to me.(though to the public it does, so I refrain just to stay out of that shit)

I don't mean to double post but you just reminded me of something. For those of you who follow American politics, one of the Democrat higher-ups called liberals "retarded". Sarah Palin immediately accused him of insulting disabled (specifically her disabled) children and asked that he be fired. You know what he did? He apologized to the head of the Paralympics! It's clear to any sane person that he was using 'retarded' to mean "stupid or idiotic", not "mentally challenged" and yet...ugh. Politicians and political correctness are so retarded (stupid/idiotic/moronic/etc.).

I double post to quote people all the time... I'm an awful person.

Anyway, yes, I did know about that because I watch The Colbert Report and The Daily Show. It was awesome how stupid she looked and sounded. Terrible that a word can't have more than one meaning though. People are bigoted against words. he ended up saying, "Sarah Palin is Retarded" because she let another person get away with it by saying in an interview that he said it, in a satirical manner, as if it mattered.

 

[quiet_samurai]

The word ****** has only really been seen as offensive in the last 50 years or so. Back in the day, and still some plsces in the south, that word was a common term thrown around freely. My grandma to this day still says the word ****** occasionaly because she comes from a time when it really wasn't considered offensive. I think that the word fag may also travel this route. When we are old and aggrivated at someone and call then a fag, our grandchildren will no doubt be astounded at or profanity and sheer gall to use such a word.

But as far as I feel about the term fag. When I was growing up, calling someone a fag didn't actually apply to them being a homosexual, If I called someone a fag they were just being a ...fag. They were being faggy. If my friend complained about having to walk far, I'd tell him to not be such a whiney fag. If my friend threw a rock at me, I would tell him to quit being a fag and quit. It's universal, and most people don't actually attach a homosexual stigma to it. Never have I referred to someone as being a fag and have the people around me question that person's sexual orientation..... ever.


People are just sensitive nowadays because our lives are so easy compared to past generations that we need to find something to be miserable about, no matter how silly it really is.

Whoa whoa whoa... what time have you grown up in that term "fag" is not considered a term for homosexuality? Do you come from future? Are you a time traveler? I'm pretty sure that the era you speak of has not occurred yet, therefore negating either your argument or, more interestingly, your existence.

Yes the term fag originally refered to a homosexual as the word gay does , which as you may know was also a term for happiness and joy as well. Now saying that, words can have a dual meaning especially during that terms evolution. Can you honestly say that everytime someone utters the word fag you automatically have thoughts questioning ones sexual orientation. I seriously doubt it. The word fag has changed multiple times over the course of history just like the word gay has as well. And they are both continuing to do so now.

Did you know if a person yelled or shouted without cause or needlessly they used to refer it to as ejaculating? So I'll just think of you're previous post as a form of keyboard ejaculation, just not the kind that makes you feel shameful afterward.

 

[quiet_samurai]

It's a synonym for fucktard. I would never call a gay person a fag for their sexual preference. It doesn't carry that meaning to me.(though to the public it does, so I refrain just to stay out of that shit)

You just reminded me of something. For those of you who follow American politics, one of the Democrat higher-ups called liberals "retarded". Sarah Palin immediately accused him of insulting disabled (specifically her disabled) children and asked that he be fired. You know what he did? He apologized to the head of the Paralympics! It's clear to any sane person that he was using 'retarded' to mean "stupid or idiotic", not "mentally challenged" and yet...

This is of course one of the difficulties of changing the meaning of offensive words: some people, usually retards (idiots), will insist that, even when the intention is clearly not derogatory to a specific group, they still insist they we not use the word for fear of insulting the retarded (unintelligent) few who still cling to the insulting meaning. Political correctness limits the advancement and possible detoxification of venomous words which you think these retards (politicians) would be in favour of.

That's another thing that bugs me. Caliing something retarted is fine, because the people that are truly retarted are probably not smart enough to realize that they should be offended.

 

[Altorin]

Words don't change their meaning just because someone decrees it. They change because language, especially slang, naturally evolves.

"Fag" comes from "******" which originially meant "a stick". The reason why it got associated with homosexuals is because it was a practice in more medieval times to burn them, using sticks as kindling for the fire.

that's not really why. The term evolved from sticks, to mean a bundle of sticks, to the women who collected kindling sticks to sell, to the lower caste of society, probably through a couple more usages, to homosexual.

The but even as the word evolved in one context, it still always also meant a bundle of sticks meant to be burned. Evolving down to the cigarette.

I'm sure someone noticed the irony of burning a "witch", who might sell faggots for her food, is being burned by similar sticks to what she collected, and maybe there was some irony in burning homosexuals, but the only reference I could find for burning homosexuals predates the usage of the word ****** by several hundred years.

 

[rees263]

I didn't know Britain regarded '****' differently from the rest of the world?

Yeah, in America and friends, **** is heavily laden with sexist undertones, being applicable only to women (vagina, pussy, snatch, etc.) and is put up there with '******' and '******' as Do-Not-Say-Period words.
In (most of) Britain, it is another equivalent of ************: not a nice word, but one you can call your friends without losing them.

Actually it's the same over here (in Britain) - it's considered the most offensive word in the English language (sexist etc) and is the only word I know that isn't allowed on TV ever. (Yes, even ****** is allowed on TV in certain situations, but I've never heard ****). ****** on the other hand doesn't carry nearly as much taboo.

Basically I'd never use it in front of anyone except close friends, and then anything goes XD