The Commonwealth and our Queen

[Kiereek]

we americans would, in the event of a zombie out break, would wait to see if you guys could handle it, then when you cant. we would come in to save the day. as evidenced in ww2

by the way zombies are getting old.

pretty sure you entered when the war was already turning around.....and the Soviets totally won WWII. the casulties show who did most of the fighing. USA 400,000. USSR 20,000,000

that just shows who was better at the war.

that's ridiculous to say! you entered much later, and faced a battered and broken German army. everyone else was weak from war. you played the opportunist my friend. the Soviets poured their men into battle. it was a bit of a different war on the eastern front. after the war, they were still raring to go, and you were hindered significantly in the military department after taking only less then a 40th of the losses... it showed in the following years.

 

[Leorex]

we americans would, in the event of a zombie out break, would wait to see if you guys could handle it, then when you cant. we would come in to save the day. as evidenced in ww2

by the way zombies are getting old.

pretty sure you entered when the war was already turning around.....and the Soviets totally won WWII. the casulties show who did most of the fighing. USA 400,000. USSR 20,000,000

that just shows who was better at the war.

that's ridiculous to say! you entered much later, and faced a battered and broken German army. everyone else was weak from war. you played the opportunist my friend. the Soviets poured their men into battle. it was a bit of a different war on the eastern front. after the war, they were still raring to go, and you were hindered significantly in the military department after taking only less then a 40th of the losses... it showed in the following years.

i dont understand, but if your saying that we where better then the rest of the world, then i agree, we where.

 

[Lord Beautiful]

we americans would, in the event of a zombie out break, would wait to see if you guys could handle it, then when you cant. we would come in to save the day. as evidenced in ww2

by the way zombies are getting old.

...all of a sudden I'm imagining a zombie invasion at the Parlament, and Elizabeth II kicking open the front doors, wearing a sun bonnet and jacking a SPAS-12.

"We'll not have this atrocity in OUR Commonwealth!" *BOOM*

I'm thinking she'd just stick a brick in her purse.

 

[Tattaglia]

*scratches head*

*snip*

Out of curiosity, what nation are you from?

 

[GodofMadness]

No country had such a decisive moment as England in WII.

IF Old Churchy had have given up, America would not have entered Europe, the Russians would have taken the full brunt of the German army, Possibly the most Brilliant army in the history of the world. And the Germans would have had the oil supplies of North Africa. Shit would have hit the fan, Russia would have lost and America wouldn?t have realised what was going on to late. Germany would have taken over the world, and i, in Australia would be speaking German or more likely my father would have been euthanized for having a genetic speech impediment.

 

[Kiutu]

The whole world has an obligation in the case of zombies as is any world afflicting problem. The rest, well...Im American.

 

[Therumancer]

[Just what is "their recent attitudes?"

-

Oh, pretty much having Canadians make snide anti-American comments every time the door is even remotely opened. In general Americans don't go around bashing Canada for the sake of bashing Canada, but Canadians do it to America. I also very much understand the idea of teasing.

It's gotten to the point where I've pretty much had to turn off zone chats and such in WoW.

In general I've just gotten so sick of Anti-American sentiment that I figured someone needs to stick up for us with equal fervor and unthinkingly bash some of these other countries in return. I try and do it in such a way that it doesn't derail otherwise serious (if sometimes exagerrated) discussions.

Have you ever taken a gander at you own media? You don't have to look to ahrd to find that most media outlets make fun of all countries and people that Aren't american. Difference between you (specificly you) and the rest of us is we understand what a joke is and aren't so bloody insecure that we have to rant in topics that have NOTHING to do with anti-americanism about how evil and hateful Canadians are. Honestly grow up or shut up.[/quote]

Well it's not me that has to do the growing up.

We're not talking about south park, or when people would occasionally joke that "Canada was one of the nicer states".

Generally speaking a lot of the problems revolve around a certain president named George W. Bush. While I don't agree with everything he did, I think he's generally criticized for the wrong things.

Ultimatly a lot of the world, including Canada, jumps on the US for going after The Middle East after 9/11, because in the final equasion it cost them money and a lot of corruption was outed if not reported properly to the people of the countries involved. France is one key example, but this also had a backlash to a lot of France's trading partners like Quebec and Canada. A good portion of the world was happy to cheat on the agreements and make a bundle doing so and when they got called on it, it had an effect, and a lot of people got unjustly POEd at the US when a lot of their problems were caused by them doing exactly what they agreed not to do.

I have no idea what Canada's exact trading alliances were like (directly, or merely dealing with the countries doing the back room deals) but pretty much they jumped on the Anti-American, Anti-Bush bandwagon. Iraq was not an issue because anyone is peaceloving, or anyone thought getting rid of Saddam was a bad thing, but rather because of the investments going on in the region.

Now there are plenty of things you can criticize Bush for, such as turning what should have been a quick go in, kick butt, leave flaming rubble behind, into an ongoing police action to I quote "Win the Peace' with the justification that we couldn't hold those oil resources and it would be better for friendly regimes marching to the beat of our drummer to do the heavy lifting for us in the region. All of which was of course a gigantic excuse for Bush to pimp out rebuilding contracts to his buddies in exchange for kickbacks, and Cheney was even worse. So the war WAS a joke, but not for the reasons most people criticize it for.

Then of course there are issues about things like trade with China, and short term versus long term benefits.

Then of course we've go the whole Isreal situation where Isreal is a long time ally and especially with the actions in Iraq and Afghanistan we have pressure to turn on them for Muslim support. A lot of the rest of the world would gladly kick Isreal into the muck. For all of the moral principles that are claimed the big idea is that a good potion of the world figures sacrificing them as a gesture would be worth the trade/diplomatic concessions that could be made. Again all in the name of short term benefits, and of course the US is the "bad guy" for standing in the way and pretty much not letting this happen just like we would probably shelter our other allies if everyone wanted to gang up on them for short term gain.

Now, I am aware this can all be argued, and that other nations have their opinions. However this gets unusually nasty, and turns from Bush bashing into US Bashing even with a new Prez calling the shots.

I guess people can claim ignorance, but honestly it's not me that has to do the growing up. I simply get sick of it. Trust me, there are plenty of reasons to be peeved at Bush (and this is coming from someone who more or less comes down as a supporter in a general sense) without people trying to take some of the things he stood by that were right and use them as excuses to bash the US.

Trust me, anyone who more or less stands with France here has issues. One of France's biggest concerns was whether the new Iraqi goverment was going to honor it's debt to France, a good portion of which was accrued through illegal trade to begin with. It's not a constant issue of discussion, but when things like this are even on the international table it's a sign that priorities are really borked.


>>>----Therumancer--->

 

[fulano]

we americans would, in the event of a zombie out break, would wait to see if you guys could handle it, then when you cant. we would come in to save the day. as evidenced in ww2

by the way zombies are getting old.

So is the belief that the U.S saved the day.

But yeah, I second the belief that it is just not the same since Freddie Mercury died. Damn AIDS...

no. its true. we did save the day.

No, you didn't. Like, for real. The russians did.

Yeah, it sucks, I know.

 

[The Madman]

Oh, pretty much having Canadians make snide anti-American comments every time the door is even remotely opened. In general Americans don't go around bashing Canada for the sake of bashing Canada, but Canadians do it to America. I also very much understand the idea of teasing.

I wasn't planning on commenting here, but whaaaaaaa? Seriously?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVKlFT58Zwc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFQs9sVvujE

That's the largest American broadcasting network. Not just that either, read the comments on those, the related video's, everything.

 

[Motti]

What would be interesting (from an aussie point of view) would be what would happen if UK and the US went to war. By the treaty of which I've forgotten the name of, if America goes to war, Australia and New Zealand go with it (hence why we went to Vietnam and Britan just pointed and laughed). Who would we side with? The motherland (which sounds oddly Russian), or the guys who we've got a treaty with?

 

[Therumancer]

we americans would, in the event of a zombie out break, would wait to see if you guys could handle it, then when you cant. we would come in to save the day. as evidenced in ww2

by the way zombies are getting old.

pretty sure you entered when the war was already turning around.....and the Soviets totally won WWII. the casulties show who did most of the fighing. USA 400,000. USSR 20,000,000

Well the USSR lost a lot of people due to suicide tactics in the same enviroment that stopped the Nazis. Hitler was foolish to go after them in their back yard. However had he invaded the US things would have been similar if we fought defensively. Russia had it's harsh arctic climate, the "Fortress Of America" has a couple of mountain ranges that would have been a serious pain in the butt for anyone trying to move from the coastlines to the heart of America.

That said the war was won not so much by America hitting the beaches (though that was a big deal) but by our Airpower which allowed the allies to go on the offensive. Simply put it was Americans who did a lot to destroy Hitlers factories, infrastructure, and abillity to make war.

There was also the covert aspects of things, since a lot of the war basically came down to OUR captured German scientists, vs. their uncaptured German Scientists. Kind of funny in a way since most of the major developments came from the Germans. For all bragging about British Royal Marine Commandos, and Canadian "Uber Special Forces" the US wound up bagging most of the scientists one way or another, which is why we wound up with the A-bomb (even if it was an allied project in general). It's also why most og the German scientists went with us after the war (and who got them was a big deal).

Things went bad with the Russians for a lot of reasons. For one we occupied Japan to keep a major naval base there giving us an unprecedented influance in the East. We also were not eager to share our german technologies and scientists with the Russians given their pretensions.

We were basically in a position to hand the USSR a bunch of rockets and a few bombed out factories and go "this is your share of the tech" while we ran programs to grab the scientists and got the guys who developed those projects. Our space program being contreversial for a reason.

The USSR did a very important "job" by exploiting Hitler's Mistake to fight on too many fronts. However it was the US and what was left of our European allies who brought him down. Truthfully if we weren't there he would have just rebuilt and come after Russia again.

Heck for that matter if we weren't there he wouldn't have been as spread out and he would have taken Russia. Had the US remained isolationist, Hitler would have won big time. England would have gone down, Russia would have gone down, and eventually he would have come for us and given the tech of the time we couldn't have won, especially seeing as HE would have had the A-bomb.

Now granted, Europe might get tired of being reminded that less than a Century ago we saved them. But a more educated criticism would be to point out that while we DID save them, we also saved ourselves. We ultimatly entered into the war because Pearl Harbour caused enough people to realize we would eventually be on the hit list (unlike Europeans who never figured they would be targeted despite what happened to their neighbors) and that swung things away from isolationist sentiment.

We also at that point had the brains to fight a real war, and among other things had the goverment use emergency powers to seize control of the media and news coverage. Thus the isolationist anti-war crowd was gagged, while tons of material demonizing the enemy was released (the Smithsonian still has a lot of this on display, I've seen it). Even now when all of that has been removed, and there is plenty of evidence about all the nasty stuff we did, people ignore it and figure we were justified as the Nazis are portrayed as the
epitome of evil.

Strictly speaking when we moved on The Middle East we should have used the same technique on the Muslims. Quashing criticism for the duration of the conflict, and then using propaganda to build our fighting spirit up to insane levels. That's how you win a war. Not by going in under constant criticism and having people go "I support our troops, but am willing to cruicify them for anything I don't like because I don't think we should be there, and believe in peace at any price".

Things like "The War on Terror" are textbook examples of what NOT to do with a military and how NOT to fight a successful war. All talk about "exit strategies" miss the point that when it's time to leave it's obvious since pretty much everyone in the target area is dead, burning, or reduced to rubble. You succeed by making an example and teaching the people there (and anyone watching) why you do not slot off the victorious country.

Of course the fact that people think I'm psycho sort of illustrates how things have changed. Heck, Patton probably would have been "a disgrace to the uniform" by today's standards and the way we conduct "wars".

Well I'm getting a bit far afield, but basically yeah... America won World War II. It wasn't the current America that did it though (a far differant mentality), and we had our own interests in doing it. We simply realized we'd be on the list eventually, unlike most of Hitler's other victims.

>>>----Therumancer--->

 

[Kiereek]

we americans would, in the event of a zombie out break, would wait to see if you guys could handle it, then when you cant. we would come in to save the day. as evidenced in ww2

by the way zombies are getting old.

pretty sure you entered when the war was already turning around.....and the Soviets totally won WWII. the casulties show who did most of the fighing. USA 400,000. USSR 20,000,000

that just shows who was better at the war.

that's ridiculous to say! you entered much later, and faced a battered and broken German army. everyone else was weak from war. you played the opportunist my friend. the Soviets poured their men into battle. it was a bit of a different war on the eastern front. after the war, they were still raring to go, and you were hindered significantly in the military department after taking only less then a 40th of the losses... it showed in the following years.

i dont understand, but if your saying that we where better then the rest of the world, then i agree, we where.

what i'm saying, is that if you can't understand simple points, and you won't even put up a valid arguement, then you're no better then your people before you, who always thought that they were saving the people from something, after the fight had already been won (or lost in some cases), making many enemies along the way, and they were definately not better then the rest of the world.

 

[hypothetical fact]

No country had such a decisive moment as England in WII.

IF Old Churchy had have given up, America would not have entered Europe, the Russians would have taken the full brunt of the German army, Possibly the most Brilliant army in the history of the world. And the Germans would have had the oil supplies of North Africa. Shit would have hit the fan, Russia would have lost and America wouldn?t have realised what was going on to late. Germany would have taken over the world, and i, in Australia would be speaking German or more likely my father would have been euthanized for having a genetic speech impediment.

Learn your history foo.
That old dawg hitler was gonna be England's bro with them in his aryan empire. But instead of being down wid dat they were all "You's busting up Poland's crib, we gonna pop a cap in your ***** ass." Then Hitler was all: "we gonna bomb your punk ass till you learn yourslf some respect."

So no you would not be speaking German just as the Italians and Japanese would not be speaking German

 

[manaman]

In general Americans don't go around bashing Canada for the sake of bashing Canada, but Canadians do it to America.

You.. you are joking, right?

I never hear either side of that here in Washington. Maybe that is cause everyone that is not a crazy power hungry election stealing liberal is actually a wise, intelligent, and all around great person. Same with the friends to the North I have had the chance to meet. Then again a lot of the Canadians I interact with are people hitchhiking up and down the coast, and they better be damn nice to me or I will kick them out on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere, or worse, I might not stop in PA and force the to find their way back from land of sparky pedophile vampires other wise known as Forks, Washington.

Of course you did notice the sarcasm there. People would be an idiot to try and make conflict where there is none. The whiners and bitchers are actually rare, but they shout the loudest. Kinda like everyone complains about the "troll" problem when the idiots doing that are actually few and far between.

Hence why you notice the people bashing your respective countries, but not notice the people from your country bashing the other. So kiss and make up damn it.

 

[Valiance]

How does it feel to be ruled (but not governed) by a person on a tiny island thousands of miles away?

 

[manaman]

No country had such a decisive moment as England in WII.

IF Old Churchy had have given up, America would not have entered Europe, the Russians would have taken the full brunt of the German army, Possibly the most Brilliant army in the history of the world. And the Germans would have had the oil supplies of North Africa. Shit would have hit the fan, Russia would have lost and America wouldn?t have realised what was going on to late. Germany would have taken over the world, and i, in Australia would be speaking German or more likely my father would have been euthanized for having a genetic speech impediment.

Learn your history foo.
That old dawg hitler was gonna be England's bro with them in his aryan empire. But instead of being down wid dat they were all "You's busting up Poland's crib, we gonna pop a cap in your ***** ass." Then Hitler was all: "we gonna bomb your punk ass till you learn yourslf some respect."

So no you would not be speaking German just as the Italians and Japanese would not be speaking German

That was... I mean the pretend speech problem that you painstakingly or faithfully typed out... and the reduction of important events in history to meaningless slang.

It is painful to read.

The treaty that ended world war one cause the depression and rapid inflation that drove Germany to the state it was in. The one that caused the to stand behind Hitler, who started increasing the size and power of the army in defiance of the treaty. Nobody stepped in to stop him. The the world condemned the invasion of Poland, but nobody did anything. It took an advance over half of Europe and massive build up before anyone decided to stop being nutural.

For those who keep saying the US only ran in at the last min and decided to claim victory:

The Irish, Spain (who supported, but did not join the Axis powers despite heavy German meddling in their civil war in an attempt to being more pro-German people into power), Portugal, Sweden, and several other countries stayed neutral for the entire war. Along with several that where initially neutral but where unable remain so due to Axis powers agression. At the time the US was not the power it would become. It was a strong nation suffering from a massive recession, as such a policy of neutrality was adopted. In all the conflicts.

That does not mean support was not given to the Allies by all of these countries (except Spain). Many Irish men served in the British Army, volunteers from the US flew with the British to help defend their lands. Weapon and money (in a backwards slightly illegal scheme) was supplied to help fuel the war effort. There was no sitting back fingers in ears pretending nothing was going on.

It took some events to bring the issue home to Americans, and a bit of yellow journalism, but eventually with popular support the US was able to actively engage in the war. Without the fresh manpower and supplies the US brought to the picture initially retaking Europe (the invasion of occupied France) would have been a difficult if not impossible task. There is no "we be heroes" in that statement cause everyone worked together, we just happened to allow the scales to tip in Allies favor.

 

[Leorex]

we americans would, in the event of a zombie out break, would wait to see if you guys could handle it, then when you cant. we would come in to save the day. as evidenced in ww2

by the way zombies are getting old.

pretty sure you entered when the war was already turning around.....and the Soviets totally won WWII. the casulties show who did most of the fighing. USA 400,000. USSR 20,000,000

that just shows who was better at the war.

that's ridiculous to say! you entered much later, and faced a battered and broken German army. everyone else was weak from war. you played the opportunist my friend. the Soviets poured their men into battle. it was a bit of a different war on the eastern front. after the war, they were still raring to go, and you were hindered significantly in the military department after taking only less then a 40th of the losses... it showed in the following years.

i dont understand, but if your saying that we where better then the rest of the world, then i agree, we where.

what i'm saying, is that if you can't understand simple points, and you won't even put up a valid arguement, then you're no better then your people before you, who always thought that they were saving the people from something, after the fight had already been won (or lost in some cases), making many enemies along the way, and they were definately not better then the rest of the world.

your probably right france didnt need saving. dday was just a joke holiday so vets can wank them selves off. am i right.

 

[Lord George]

we americans would, in the event of a zombie out break, would wait to see if you guys could handle it, then when you cant. we would come in to save the day. as evidenced in ww2

by the way zombies are getting old.

pretty sure you entered when the war was already turning around.....and the Soviets totally won WWII. the casulties show who did most of the fighing. USA 400,000. USSR 20,000,000

that just shows who was better at the war.

that's ridiculous to say! you entered much later, and faced a battered and broken German army. everyone else was weak from war. you played the opportunist my friend. the Soviets poured their men into battle. it was a bit of a different war on the eastern front. after the war, they were still raring to go, and you were hindered significantly in the military department after taking only less then a 40th of the losses... it showed in the following years.

i dont understand, but if your saying that we where better then the rest of the world, then i agree, we where.

what i'm saying, is that if you can't understand simple points, and you won't even put up a valid arguement, then you're no better then your people before you, who always thought that they were saving the people from something, after the fight had already been won (or lost in some cases), making many enemies along the way, and they were definately not better then the rest of the world.

your probably right france didnt need saving. dday was just a joke holiday so vets can wank them selves off. am i right.

Yes. Yes you are, well done.


But as for the commonwealth I think its a good thing. It can bind people from various cultures together within a larger culture and help us all get along.

we americans would, in the event of a zombie out break, would wait to see if you guys could handle it, then when you cant. we would come in to save the day. as evidenced in ww2

by the way zombies are getting old.

...all of a sudden I'm imagining a zombie invasion at the Parlament, and Elizabeth II kicking open the front doors, wearing a sun bonnet and jacking a SPAS-12.

"We'll not have this atrocity in OUR Commonwealth!" *BOOM*

Sounds like you might want to read Pride and Prejudice and Zombies

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pride-Prejudice-Zombies-Romance-now-Ultraviolent/dp/1594743347/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243324511&sr=8-1

 

[Mathioso]

Okay Honestly lets get this back on topic. We have gone from What common Wealth nations think about The Queen (The initial subject to this topic) To Theuromancer going on a mad rant against Canadians that had nothing to do with the inital topic, to concerns about wether or not American saved the world in the second world war.

The answer to both questions is simple. Yes there are people in Canada that mock americans and Yes there are americans that make fun of Canada. BIG DEAL, there will always be dicks who feel they need to mock others in order to feel better about themselves. You just have to grow up and not get your panties in a twist when they do this. When you go on forums throwing around hateful essays against other nations, you are only giving your own country a bad name.

And to solve this American role in WW2 buisness, Yes the United States did play a major role in the second world war, but so did various other nations. Had the British not kept the north african oil fields then the american offensive in the euopean theater would have failed. If you look in your history books you will see that the battle of the bulge failed for the most part due to Germany being unable to keep their vehicles fueled and fighting. America played a huge role in the second world war and Many battles were won because of them, but look in the history books before you decide to hate on everybody else.