The Defending Joe Biden Mega-Thread

crimson5pheonix

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Well, that being the cast mostly just proves that the American electorate is completely out of wack. It may be a political faux pass to say it out loud, but a proper electorate would never have such an obvious traitor and a felon be a viable candidate to begin with, let alone be the favorite. The American electorate is being downright irresponsible when they should know better.
Well I'd rather blame a system that presents a genocidal madman who belongs in the Hague as the major alternative. You can act smug about electorates all you want, but as I recall your government is controlled by a far right loony in control of farmers who blast their political opponents with manure. I'm not sure how much you get to speak on this topic.
 
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Hades

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Well I'd rather blame a system that presents a genocidal madman who belongs in the Hague as the major alternative. You can act smug about electorates all you want, but as I recall your government is controlled by a far right loony in control of farmers who blast their political opponents with manure. I'm not sure how much you get to speak on this topic.
Sure. But Wilders needed decades, an election engineered to be on his terms, and a whole fake ''Geert Milders'' persona before finally being allowed to win. With Trump the US keeps stumbling on the very first hurdle they find. Even worse, Trump's odds seem to increase the more out of control and radical he gets. He's not the favorite because he suddenly pretends to be ''moderate Don''.

Also I don't think Bibi was ever touted as the alternative.
 

crimson5pheonix

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Sure. But Wilders needed decades, an election engineered to be on his terms, and a whole fake ''Geert Milders'' persona before finally being allowed to win. With Trump the US keeps stumbling on the very first hurdle they find.

Also I don't think Bibi was ever touted as the alternative.
And Trump is a product of decades of right wing sanitization of extremist political rhetoric that dems (the politicians, not the voters) sleep walked into. Even then he only won the first time because his political opponent literally helped him campaign and then ran one of the most incompetent campaigns of her own.
The democrat machine learned absolutely nothing from this. Don't blame voters for what party elites have created.

Bibi is Biden's bestest bud and gets his unconditional support, along with blanket protection from being criticized. You might as well consider Bibi part of Biden's cabinet. And I'm told you're voting for Biden's cabinet.
 

dreng3

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That isn't the point. The point is that the dems have made Trump's personal problems the main focus of their attacks against him, which is a good line of attack, but it opens up the mirror to looking at Joe Biden's personal problems.

We had dementia addled Genocide Joe. It's a bad look. And then deflecting away from that made it worse. The proof is that the race is really close with Donald Trump as the opponent.
At best it is a talking point, but it isn't more than that. Biden knows how to mitigate his personal problems and delegate tasks to capable members of his administration. Trump does not acknowledge personal problems and even when he delegates it is to some of the most useless, or even cruel, people in modern politics.

Trump is useless because of his personal problems, Biden is useful in spite of them.
 

Seanchaidh

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There's probably at least one state that has some kind of rule or deadline that at this stage swapping out candidates (or swapping out candidates for all but certain reasons) might violate. Like most things, elections are a matter of state law and thus every state is a bit different.
betting that isn't the case. the Republicans and Democrats have been pretty good about making it so their nomination processes result in automatically leaping all the hurdles for ballot access that other parties have to face. and the Democratic National Convention hasn't happened yet.

At best it is a talking point, but it isn't more than that. Biden knows how to mitigate his personal problems and delegate tasks to capable members of his administration. Trump does not acknowledge personal problems and even when he delegates it is to some of the most useless, or even cruel, people in modern politics.

Trump is useless because of his personal problems, Biden is useful in spite of them.
for whom?
 
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crimson5pheonix

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Biden knows
Debatably Biden doesn't know what day of the week it is.

And Biden has delegated to useless ghouls as well, so I don't buy it either. The arguments don't hold up, if you're going to say that Trump isn't trustworthy on a personal level, you can't contrast it with Biden. It simply doesn't work and you just look silly for trying.
 

Thaluikhain

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Debatably Biden doesn't know what day of the week it is.

And Biden has delegated to useless ghouls as well, so I don't buy it either. The arguments don't hold up, if you're going to say that Trump isn't trustworthy on a personal level, you can't contrast it with Biden. It simply doesn't work and you just look silly for trying.
And even the contrast is valid, perception is reality.
 

dreng3

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for whom?
People who'd like an, at least, semi-fuctioning economy as well as to not live in a fascistic society in which women are considered lesser beings and everyone who diverges from the path of white and straight aren't demonized?


Debatably Biden doesn't know what day of the week it is.

And Biden has delegated to useless ghouls as well, so I don't buy it either. The arguments don't hold up, if you're going to say that Trump isn't trustworthy on a personal level, you can't contrast it with Biden. It simply doesn't work and you just look silly for trying.
Biden = senile old fellow who has expressed some racist views a couple of decades ago and is fairly doddering and affable.
Trump = rapist/sexual assaulter, recent racist, senile, felon, possibly traitor and 100% security risk.

Now name me a couple of ghouls from the Biden admin and I'll point to some fascists, neo-nazis, criminals, and outright criminals from the Trump admin.
Biden picked, in general, better people, had them on useful (read non-fascist/non-christofascist) tasks.
 
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Trunkage

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That was mainly my point is that you can say it was mostly peaceful, much like how BLM was called mostly peaceful by the media.

Did people protesting the election have to have cities bring in the national guard and set curfews? It's like when people cite crime statistics (that don't tell the whole story) and say crime is down but then you have stores locking products behind cases, not allowing teenagers in, and stores closing. If crime wasn't an issue, those things wouldn't be happening.

We had far more looting than you realize or that your stats will tell. It wasn't just like say Chicago, it was also suburbs.
My stats were 3.7% of cities that had a BLM march also had some form of looting. So yes, there would be more than one city. The SIZE of the BLM protest means that's 3.7% is over 100 cities. Just I've already stated. That's over 100 instances of looting. (I'm pretty sure you could come up with 200 cases of looting over the 200 days.)

Looting here can mean only one instance of looting in that city over the 200+ days of BLM. Some of these are protestors stealing bricks from construction sites. Some of this was the destructive first day. Some looting was done by protestors. Some looting was done by right-wingers when they realised that BLM wasn't looting as regularly as FOX News pretended and wanted to get them in trouble. Many were done by opportunities that were for or against BLM. Some of these were just average looting that would have happened regardless of BLM because criminals need loot. Because that's how these statistics work. ANY looting was counted against BLM

Anyway, let's pretend that BLM did looting in all of the 3.7% of cities. Unless you think that 3.7% actually means most, you just provided more anecdotal evidence pretending it was a trend. And it isn't. Statistics remove made up connections, particularly from Fox. BTW, Jan 6 looted at 50% of cities they protested, if you include California protestors. Otherwise, it's 100%

And I probably wouldn't bring up the fact that the National Guard wasn't called up on an event organised by Donald. That was by design
 
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crimson5pheonix

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Now name me a couple of ghouls from the Biden admin and I'll point to some fascists, neo-nazis, criminals, and outright criminals from the Trump admin.
Congrats, that's the point, it's not a strong contrast and the message gets muddied. If your premise is "Biden picks good people" and the response to disputing that is "Trump picked more bad people" instead of being able to defend Biden's picks, you've lost the thread. You told me he picks good people, but now tacitly agree that he doesn't, actually.

Biden doesn't come across as affable to me, I've heard him speak, I've seen his positions, he comes across like an angry bitter old man half the time with some downright horrible policies that would be damning in any sane world. That that also describes Trump is utterly meaningless. It just means that when you tell me to compare them, I'm going to point out that Biden is an angry bitter old man with his brains falling out of his ears and is helping to exterminate brown people. I'm going to say one of the only times he flexed the power of his office was not to raise the minimum wage or to actually forgive student loans, but to subvert congress to install someone into government who thought we should bomb Libya and take their oil for profit. I'm going to point out the national security spox is bald faced lying to the American people about our ally committing a genocide with the weapons we give them, including killing American citizens with American made bombs. I'm going to say I live next to a railroad track and his pick for transportation secretary deregulated train safety checks after one of the most disasterous and high profile train derailments that poisoned an entire community.

But don't believe your lying eyes and don't you ever fucking DARE imply that maybe things could be better and we should expect better of our politicians. Lie to yourself and everyone else that Biden is a good boi with a heart of gold instead of a greedy old man who had to have the presidency pried from his decaying fingers after 3 years of objectively terrible decisions because the party apparatus finally figured out Trump is an existential threat to them instead of just to the rest of us.

In other words, don't try to white wash Biden to me, he's not likable, he's not empathetic, he doesn't act cute, he's despotic and absolutely hatable. He has currently it looks like a 38% approval rating and a 56% disapproval rating. His stans just want to say people are misinformed about him. Maybe he's just a shit president?
 

tstorm823

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..his political opponent literally helped him campaign and then ran one of the most incompetent campaigns of her own.
The democrat machine learned absolutely nothing from this.
They really didn't. They're floating Josh Shapiro, the governor of my state, as a potential president or vice president. He won the race by spending as much as the GOP on the primary to advertise for his preferred opponent. They actively reward this behavior with the highest possible positions even after 2016.
 

Gergar12

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I will make a thread about Kamala, but it mostly includes attacking RFK Jr. and Tulsi.
 

Satinavian

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In other words, don't try to white wash Biden to me, he's not likable, he's not empathetic, he doesn't act cute, he's despotic and absolutely hatable. He has currently it looks like a 38% approval rating and a 56% disapproval rating. His stans just want to say people are misinformed about him. Maybe he's just a shit president?
The Problem is that the other candidate is Trump.

Biden has been a bad candidate. As he is now, worse than Obama, Clinton, both Bushs and pretty much everyone who made it through preelections in the last decades except Trump. Trump is just so horrible that even an utterly senile and otherwise bland Biden looks like a good candidate. People have looked at Biden and thought "well, he might be too weak to do much, but that at least keeps the status quo instead of making everything worse as Trump would".
 

crimson5pheonix

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The Problem is that the other candidate is Trump.

Biden has been a bad candidate. As he is now, worse than Obama, Clinton, both Bushs and pretty much everyone who made it through preelections in the last decades except Trump. Trump is just so horrible that even an utterly senile and otherwise bland Biden looks like a good candidate. People have looked at Biden and thought "well, he might be too weak to do much, but that at least keeps the status quo instead of making everything worse as Trump would".
He's since gone on to make things worse. But again, the complaint here isn't really my complaints about Biden, it's about dem messaging. This whole chain of responses started with me happy Biden isn't the candidate anymore since now dem messaging might make sense finally.
 

dreng3

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In other words, don't try to white wash Biden to me, he's not likable, he's not empathetic, he doesn't act cute, he's despotic and absolutely hatable. He has currently it looks like a 38% approval rating and a 56% disapproval rating. His stans just want to say people are misinformed about him. Maybe he's just a shit president?
I think I see the issue here, you're an Enlightened Centrist, which is just another way of saying that if the Democrat isn't perfect it doesn't matter if the Republican is actual Satan, they're both bad (and no, it doesn't matter that one is orders of magnitude worse) and thus you should either not vote or vote for Satan.
 

tstorm823

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I think I see the issue here, you're an Enlightened Centrist, which is just another way of saying that if the Democrat isn't perfect it doesn't matter if the Republican is actual Satan, they're both bad (and no, it doesn't matter that one is orders of magnitude worse) and thus you should either not vote or vote for Satan.
This is a joke, right? Crimson is like top 5 lefties here...
 

Eacaraxe

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I think I see the issue here, you're an Enlightened Centrist, which is just another way of saying that if the Democrat isn't perfect it doesn't matter if the Republican is actual Satan, they're both bad (and no, it doesn't matter that one is orders of magnitude worse) and thus you should either not vote or vote for Satan.
As opposed to seeing the election as "Republican" versus "not Republican"? What phoenix is doing, is judging the candidates and officers for what they actually did in office -- before becoming president and during -- and judging them on that basis, as opposed to pure aesthetics and kneejerk media response.

Frankly, Biden did far more damage to this country during his 36 years in the Senate than Trump ever has done or would do -- or for that matter, is even capable. His senatorial track record is that of support for every single piece of legislation that's systemically undermined and harmed this country since Nixon. You name it, he sponsored it, he whipped votes for it, he manufactured consent for it, or in some cases, his office authored or helped author it. The dire socioeconomic circumstances that gave rise to the tea party, and Trump, in the first place can be credited to Joe Biden more than any other senator over the past fifty years.

Biden couldn't even be arsed to reverse Trump's most toxic policies in office, just deliver increasingly-large piles of pork in the name of cutting inflation. Inflation that, lest we forget, is largely artificial and driven by shareholder avarice unleashed (and rewarded with lavish bailouts but no prosecution or re-regulation) by Biden's own senatorial votes in the '80s and '90s. I really wish I could say the Biden administration could have been bothered to try hiding their continuation of Trump's policies, but they didn't -- the media simply chose to not report upon it.

If you look (or looked) at Biden and saw "not Trump", you're an aesthetics voter. Which is far worse, in my opinion, than "enlightened centrism" for whatever that's supposed to mean now. Because with Biden, you got Trump's policies and worse, less transparency, less accountability, and eminently less public attention. At least with Trump, "moderate" (those don't really exist, the conflict is between hard-right paleocons and neocons) Republicans and corporate media had to walk a tightrope of appearing to not support Trump, as the actual policy positions and goals he furthered were very much supported by them.

And Harris will be no better; in fact, she'll be worse as we'll see an inglorious return of "everyone who doesn't support the policies is racist/sexist" as seen between Obama and Clinton as a smoke screen to manufacture consent for...Trump's policies.

I will make a thread about Kamala, but it mostly includes attacking RFK Jr. and Tulsi.
I'ma just head you off on that. One wonders why Tulsi would be spontaneously and strangely name-dropped here...


Might the moment the moonbat also-ran single-handedly torpedoed Harris' entire political career (but for the smoke-filled backroom ratfuck lifeline) in a debate be why?

Seriously, y'all planning to vote blue come November should be shitting your pants at the prospect of this woman having to debate Trump. Harris is one of the worst debaters to take a presidential candidate stage since...shit, Dukakis? I think she may actually be worse, in fact.
 
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Silvanus

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The Problem is that the other candidate is Trump.

Biden has been a bad candidate. As he is now, worse than Obama, Clinton, both Bushs and pretty much everyone who made it through preelections in the last decades except Trump. Trump is just so horrible that even an utterly senile and otherwise bland Biden looks like a good candidate. People have looked at Biden and thought "well, he might be too weak to do much, but that at least keeps the status quo instead of making everything worse as Trump would".
Right, but you're approaching this purely as a question of who to vote for.

That might seem like the only question that matters, but consider that the vast majority of voters already hate one or the other candidate so much they'll never vote for them. Remaining "undecided" or "swing" voters tend to represent ~7-10% by most (imperfect) metrics. You're not going to push that needle much further by piling on the negative messaging, much of which they've already seen for years anyway.

On the other hand, ~35% of eligible voters routinely don't bother to vote. That's a much bigger chunk of potential support to tap. And those who're liable to stay home, due to apathy or disenfranchisement or justified cynicism, are more likely to be motivated by positive messaging around what your party will do for them, rather than fear of the other party. They already have fear. They just doubt you'll do much about it.
 

crimson5pheonix

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I think I see the issue here, you're an Enlightened Centrist, which is just another way of saying that if the Democrat isn't perfect it doesn't matter if the Republican is actual Satan, they're both bad (and no, it doesn't matter that one is orders of magnitude worse) and thus you should either not vote or vote for Satan.
No, it's just that I have a severe dislike of people who absolutely positively do not listen, have no desire to listen, and proudly step out arguing against something else entirely from what I'm saying. You're looking for phoenixmgs for the enlightened centrist. It's perfect, you two can talk past each other without engaging with each other's thoughts for days. Come back to me when you actually read what I write.
 
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