The Degradation of Basic Education

[P.Tsunami]

Site experiencing issues, apparently.

 

[Caduceus55]

Thoughts? I want you to go over your own post with a fine-toothed comb for grammar errors. Hint: There are a lot of them, you big hypocrite.

Also, the site isn't called Zero Punctuation. It's called The Escapist. I'm not sure you should be first in line to whine about the quality of modern-day education.

I don't see any besides degradation, perhaps you would care to bold them for me. As for my Zero Punctuation faux pas, that again has been covered and is a navigational error, rather than an educated one.

Lot's of lazy people here, only furthering my point...

Let's get this perfectly clear. You couldn't be bothered to properly check your post for spelling and grammar. You couldn't be bothered to even properly check what site you're on. Now, you can't be bothered (or lack the ability) to clean up your post.

And we're the lazy ones? Get real.

Wait...what? What grammatical errors do you see? Clean up what? Again, as for my misuse of Zero Punctuation, it was the backlink that I used from my Blog and therefore had it on the brain. It's a fairly minor indiscretion, but one some of you obviously find offensive.

 

[Lim3]

SNIP

Lot's of lazy people here, only furthering my point...

Lots, not "Lot's". There is no ownership and no abbreviation.

Also if you really are interested in this issue there is more then enough research out there.

If you're to lazy to read there is a fantastic documentry about eduction in the US 'Waiting for "Superman"':

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_%22Superman%22

There is a lot of material out there for reading if you take the time to look.

Wait...what? What grammatical errors do you see? Clean up what? Again, as for my misuse of Zero Punctuation, it was the backlink that I used from my Blog and therefore had it on the brain. It's a fairly minor indiscretion, but one some of you obviously find offensive.

I have marked an error above. In addition I do not think "blog" should have a capital B.

Also I mentioned your error in regard to the website earlier because I think it is quite funny.

And this is also an experiment, you see the faster you try to respond to all of us typing at you, in theory the more your spelling should degrade, as per one of the arguments on the first page of posts.

P.S. please post a link to your "Blog".

 

[Caduceus55]

SNIP

Lot's of lazy people here, only furthering my point...

Lots, not "Lot's". There is no ownership and no abbreviation.

Also if you really are interested in this issue there is more then enough research out there.

If you're to lazy to read there is a fantastic documentry about eduction in the US 'Waiting for "Superman"':

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_%22Superman%22

There is a lot of material out there for reading if you take the time to look.

"You" should be "you're" and "documentary" and "education" are spelled wrong. Also, "to" should be "too". We could go on all day with probably each and every post, but you are missing the point. It was never about each and every little bit of punctuation or small grammatical errors that are usually just oversights. It's the bigger picture.

Finally, this was meant to be a discussion and to gauge others thoughts on the matter. Nothing more, nothing less. Hence the "thoughts?", at the end of my post.

 

[Caduceus55]

I capitalize the "B", because even though I am not using it's proper title, so as not to be an advertising whore, I still think of it as it's name. My Blog just replaces that. As to the link, you can find it in my profile.

Sorry, double post. I guess something is running a little slow and I wasn't following the post progression.

Aah, I think it was because I followed a quoted link from my profile and it opened a new window...

 

[Skoosh]

So a guy had to check your change a couple times to get it right, no big deal. I have to go over my change a couple times too, yet I can still solve differential equations. Yes, these skills are dying, the same goes with penmanship. They are rarely needed, so they degrade. Another skill this generation mostly lacks compared to previous: cooking. Not really a problem though, it's been on a decline for a couple generations.

Basic math and grammar are still taught, so the education isn't degrading, just the retention. Basic education has actually gotten better, I'd say. Look at when algebra was taught in your parent's day and look and the age it's taught now. Look at the historical "facts" your parents learned in school and what they teach now. Sure, there's still a long way to go, but we're still improving, not degrading.

 

[maninahat]

It is less to do with education standards and more to do with speed. The internet provides immediate gratification and millions of services with just a few finger clicks. So naturally, when people want stuff done faster they spend less time on things that will slow them down,like editing or proof reading.

 

[CodeOrange]

I don't think education has degraded, education is at a high standard of teaching and support across most of the world right now. Whenever I encounter these problems, I see it more as an attitude to education that is the issue. People aren't interested, or don't think it's important, or have better things to do. I literally, when we left school about 5 years ago, got told by a girl that she was going to forget all her maths because it would never be use to her again. Now working as a cashier she has the same problem with giving change, not because her education was flawed but because she refused to acknowledge it.

I mean, it is possible to construct an argument about how it's the education's responsibility to make sure that this does happen. I can only speak for Britain in this to say though, the syllabus is well structured and the curriculum focuses on important aspects of each subject and tries to balance them with the time given. There are varying degrees of teaching quality but all teachers are teaching them the right things and want to get the job done. Education is fine, it's the attitudes that need sorting out.

If it's the attitudes, then how can we allow students to take an interest in their education LIKE THE GOOD OL' DAYS???

Your logic is flawed from a lack of contemplation and biased reasoning. School has never been interesting: it isn't fun; it's tedious and rote; and most of the "knowledge" learned in school has absolutely no use (not for the layman or artist, that is). Hell, I can name a few teachers that I know who would agree with me right here; that the current curriculum (in Australia) is utter trash. It's just that in recent years, this issue of an abhorrent educational system has been highlighted by the free information superpower dubbed as the internet, where anyone, including your mother and stupid cousin can have a go at butchering the English language. So please don't get sheer idiocy mixed up with a boring waste of 13 or so years.

 

[bluepilot]

At University there seems to be more focus on teaching liberal values rather than real skills.

I'm school curriculums today you can find subjects like "diversity" and "identity" which can be interesting but also can leave little room for debate and critical thinking because nobody wants to be seen as a 'discriminator'

In English I try my best but I'm not perfect.

I think that education needs to focus more on enriching the basics and leave the liberal agenda outside the classroom.

 

[Phishfood]

I actually work in a school and I can tell you the spelling is atrocious.

The actual documents are ok, thanks to spell check (and the fact most of them just copy/paste wikipedia) but then you see that a year 10 (15 years old, can leave and "get a job" in a year) has saved their file as "since corrswerk.doc"

The failing actually goes back to primary schools, there is no longer any emphasis on the three Rs (reading, riting and rithmatic ) and they start here dumb as rocks.

We had a mass password reset this year and so far

4 people asked me how to type #
2 people asked me how to type -
2 people asked me how to type £
5 people needed me to type in the entire password.
6 people changed their password and forgot it in under an hour.

Thats just the STAFF.

In the immortal words of daffy duck - "I demand that you shoot me now!"

 

[immortalfrieza]

I don't think education has degraded, education is at a high standard of teaching and support across most of the world right now. Whenever I encounter these problems, I see it more as an attitude to education that is the issue. People aren't interested, or don't think it's important, or have better things to do. I literally, when we left school about 5 years ago, got told by a girl that she was going to forget all her maths because it would never be use to her again. Now working as a cashier she has the same problem with giving change, not because her education was flawed but because she refused to acknowledge it.

I mean, it is possible to construct an argument about how it's the education's responsibility to make sure that this does happen. I can only speak for Britain in this to say though, the syllabus is well structured and the curriculum focuses on important aspects of each subject and tries to balance them with the time given. There are varying degrees of teaching quality but all teachers are teaching them the right things and want to get the job done. Education is fine, it's the attitudes that need sorting out.

The girl you mentioned has a point, these days unless you become a physicist or something you don't need to know any more math than you can answer by punching it into a calculator. In fact, the vast majority of things we are taught in school we are never going to use, that's why you probably don't remember even half of what you've been taught in school. Go ahead, try and remember everything you've ever been taught...

...can't even get close can you?

Really, we spend years in school being taught a bunch of irrelevant crap that the vast majority of us will never use, (and in the case of gym, NONE of us) and the few that will won't learn anything of actual worth until they get into college anyway. This is what leads to the real issue, that no one has a reason to care about most everything we are being taught, as a result we don't learn it, and even if we do get it hammered into us we don't remember it for long.

 

[Catchy Slogan]

Who cares? Not me, not thousands of other people. You take a pride and pleasure in language? Good for you. Now does that mean the rest of us have to live to your standards? No.

There are alot of people who did well in school, there are also alot who didn't. We all can't be as smart as you. You take a minority of cases and apply it to everything. So what if they're a bit slow at maths? Some people struggle with numbers if they can't write them down. And he was just checking he didn't short change you and you are pretty much insulting him for it!

You may think you are being 'oldschool', but you're not. You're just being arrogant and superior.

At least at my schools, we had to do everthing you did aswell. Learn the times table, write joined-up, everything I did was handwritten with the exception of final drafts at college and I'm only 19, so I'm not exactly 'oldschool'.

Also on the subject of Language, this pretty much sums up my thoughts in a far more eloquent manner than I ever possibly could.

 

[Robert Ewing]

I don't think education has degraded at all.

You seem to be getting education mixed up with intelligence. The education system doesn't make you intelligent, it teaches you how to pass an exam, hoping you learn in the process. Passing the exam will give you a grade that can be used as proof of your knowledge in a given area.

The education system has always been like this. For example, there is no point in learning all the wonders of science and maths if they're not going to be on the exam that decides what rank you get essentially.

I don't hate maths, I hate the way I was taught maths. It's the same for most subjects. It's only more proof that school doesn't always work in some cases.

Basically the exam is the benchmark, and you don't learn that subject, you learn what the benchmark is. It's only benefit is that it reaches 'the target.'

Schools don't inspire learning like they should. It's all on a criterion.

 

[intheweeds]

I don't think education has degraded, education is at a high standard of teaching and support across most of the world right now. Whenever I encounter these problems, I see it more as an attitude to education that is the issue. People aren't interested, or don't think it's important, or have better things to do. I literally, when we left school about 5 years ago, got told by a girl that she was going to forget all her maths because it would never be use to her again. Now working as a cashier she has the same problem with giving change, not because her education was flawed but because she refused to acknowledge it.

I mean, it is possible to construct an argument about how it's the education's responsibility to make sure that this does happen. I can only speak for Britain in this to say though, the syllabus is well structured and the curriculum focuses on important aspects of each subject and tries to balance them with the time given. There are varying degrees of teaching quality but all teachers are teaching them the right things and want to get the job done. Education is fine, it's the attitudes that need sorting out.

This is true. I have two grade school teachers in my family and both have the same complaints when it comes to this. I live in Canada and it would seem attitudes are changing with parents as well and perhaps more importantly than the kids.

When I was a kid, if I came home with an F, my parents would freak out and make me study way harder and most likely ground me for a while. Now though, if a kid comes home with an F, the parent goes into the school and freaks out on the teacher for not teaching the lessons well enough - "You're letting my special little snowflake fail!". Children don't have the same amount of responsibility for they're own actions anymore.

The younger ones are also very different at school than at home. They may act far worse in front of the teacher than they do in front of the parent. My parents realized this and I also got in trouble when a teacher sent a letter home - the teacher was automatically believed and I would be grounded for that too. These days a parent asks for the child's side of the story and usually chooses to believe their kid would never lie to them.

I feel like there is some kind of shift in attitude in regards to personal responsibility in general that isn't right. Kids are not being taught by they're parents to value or respect education from a young age.

The greatest teacher in the world cannot give an A on assignment a kid couldn't get it together to hand in and it's the kids own damn fault for not doing it.

 

[Dr Jones]

Lot's of lazy people here, only furthering my point...

No need to be high and mighty about being smarter than other people. Also, i do think that children compared to some years ago are smarter, i think PISA made a test about it. Though i'm not sure (Your experiences with 'dem bad mathmaticians is maybe due to your location? Also, dont go raging over if someone cba to proper spell a couple of words (and dont go grammar nazi on me, English isn't my first lingo)).

 

[Twilight_guy]

Snip

Attacking someone because they dared express an opinion counter to yours is cool.

On topic, it's sheer laziness. And it's pathetic, really. Typing out whole words isn't hard, unlike your math example. Some people are genuinely bad at math. I'm one of them. But there's not an excuse for just not being assed to properly talk.

No I'm lashing out because I'm sick of people whinny and shouting "idiocracy" with no evidence. I'm sick of people with swollen egos complaining about how stupid the world is and sitting on their high horse claiming their own self righteousness. Anyone with that much hubris needs to have someone pull them down from their high cloud for their own good. The sheer balls that it takes to claim the world is getting stupider around you is enough to piss me off. Sometimes i don't want to swallow my anger and move on, sometimes I want to post my opinion on a board made up mostly of people's opinions.

Also, stop assuming that people aren't being grammatically correct because they are lazy. You know what assuming does.