The Design of Consuming Shadow

[grrrz]

This game is really sadistic (as his creator who seems to enjoy our suffering), but you come back for more.
I still haven't completed it (I mean with a good ending), but it's a really cool game, the sanity system works very well to drive you mad and you end up putting all your xp in it, the events are pretty rich, if a little repetitive. (for the "suicide minigame" well you have to know it's a minigame, I found out in the forum), and the puzzle part is fun to figure out (and since it reapeat itself you only have to figure out the system, as you learn from it it"s much easier in subsequent playthrough).
The only problem I have with the game is, it's very atmospheric, and this is well rendered with limited ressources, the writing is good, and the "multiverse" idea where the intro evolves each time you play and you gain xp is a good idea, but, the tenth or twentieth time you play you have experienced every random events, you have red every text there is, so you skip the text or only look for the clue telling you what it's about, and the mechanic of the game becomes crudly apparent, and you lose the sense of weight of the universe of the game,it lose its charm, and become repetitive and a bit tedious.
I have the same problem with ftl, long before you're about to win you don't follow the story anymore and you know exactly that this type of event will do this result, I just have to click the first answer, and totally lose the immersion.
this is a problem pretty well explained by the dark descent developer there
http://frictionalgames.blogspot.fr/2011/11/problem-of-repetition.html
and in a "rogue-like" kind of game it's specially apparent.

 

[Estelindis]

I look forward to bad attempts at ZP parody style reviews of this game.

I've been really, deeply enjoying (and being terrified by) Consuming Shadow... but I totally agree!

 

[FallenMessiah88]

I can only speak for myself, but my criticism of last week's ZP wasn't so much that Yahtzee preferred PC over consoles, but more that he basically declared consoles dead. It's only been a year since the new generation started and some of the games discussed in the video hadn't even been released yet and so it's simply just too early to say anything about the new generation of consoles as a whole.

 

[IrisNetwork]

Ever tried "Don't Starve"? A survival game with insanity meter.
Lowering insanity is quite fun at first when you see the blurring and hallucinations but later on, the hallucinations attack you and actually deal damage. Also, rabbits turn into beardlings which no longer produce food but beard hair. There are interesting stuff you can craft from the hallucination's drops.
I'll get to your game, when I got the time. Sorry, really busy. :/

 

[weirdee]

Note: you can also get sanity from wall runes, but once again, the generation of those are random, and not all of them are exactly...helpful.

Secondly, you can tell which enemies are fake by attempting to bait them into attacking, and if they start to try to attack, you can mow them down with some well aimed shots before they get to try anything. The fake ones are too ineffective to do anything when you charge at them, and also break the spawn frequency pattern, so if you get attacked right after a previous attack, or even a couple rooms away, it's more likely to be fake.

The random monster spawning in Consuming Shadow created the issue that you can avoid having to fight anything by leaving and re-entering the room each time a monster spawns, so I made sanity go down if you run away from them. A mechanic which only works if sanity loss is an effective punishment.

You had me up until here.

A real hallmark with Roguelikes - and something I really, really like about them - is that they reinforce how weak you are compared to the monsters of the dungeon by making them much stronger than your character - to the point that, at the time you initially encounter them, you simply have no hope of beating them. This is counterbalanced by one simple idea that many players find hard to understand - just don't fight them.

Sigmund appears on D:2? Just run to the upstairs and come down somewhere else.

Mechaspiders quest? No thanks, I like actually having a crew.

And so on. This only works if players have running as a viable option, and this is something most roguelikes actively give players resources to facilitate(Teleport/Blinking scrolls in Crawl, Staves of Blinking/Obstruction in Brogue, and so forth). Removing it as a viable option by slapping on a debilitating sanity penalty in Consuming Shadows sends the message to players that they HAVE to fight the monsters, even if they can't win with their current gear, which can only lead to frustration.

(Full disclaimer: I haven't played Consuming Shadows yet, and I've heard lots of good things about it, but I think Yahtzee should really reconsider his position here.)

the way it works in the game is that every encounter will take some sort of resource, if you're not an expert in fighting hand to hand

ammunition, health, or sanity

the challenge is in making the judgment calls on what you're going to use in a particular encounter, and chances are that unless you have more stat points to throw around, you're going in with a very limited supply of those three, with sanity being the hardest to get back, and the most detrimental if you spend it too soon

the system in of itself is also supposed to discourage needless exploration to an extent, although this is also tied into the risk/reward mechanic where you have to decide to rush the mission, or sweep through the facility to ensure that you don't miss vital clues, powerful spells, or potential resources...or you could end up with a lot of nothing for your trouble and expensive injuries if you really hit bad luck

 

[Scrythe]

Maybe you should download version 1.0.0.1, which introduced keyboard controls. Made a big difference to how much I enjoyed the game, and I liked it when it was just mouse control.

As for the writing, I'm really not sure how I'd talk if I was on a three day quest to save the world from an other-worldly horror while fighting demons. Plus, the character is writing, not talking. The way people express themselves in writing is usually different to how they would speak.

Funny you should mention that. I just finished 1213 on a gamepad using JoyToKey, and I can't see myself going back to keyboard controls after that. Hell, I used the same configuration on Art of Theft as well.

The only drawback with Consuming Shadow is that you still have to use the mouse for a good slice of the gameplay.

 

[Guffe]

Enjoying the game, yet to get to the Stonehenge finale, been close twice, level 5 (soon six) so I've had a few runs.

Well done Yahtzee, the game is certainly keeping me playing it. And I'm no fan of horror (I like Arkham Horror though )

Just one question:

The guy with the Hat who spans in some dungeons, I have yet been able to kill him even I shoot and beat him, like, A LOT!!
Am I just that bad at this

Now I just wait to encounter him to have another shot at him :,(

 

[Ryleh]

If FTL was a really good space re-make of Oregon Trail, then Consuming Shadow is a lackluster lovecraftian re-make along the same lines.

Lovecraft's material has rarely been incorporated well in to the realm of gaming, unless you enjoy spawning hordes of rainbow cthulhus in scribblenauts. However, this game does do it justice. Surely Croshaw can tap in to his contacts in the gaming industry to find someone to collaborate on the visual side of things, as I feel the game has a lot of potential but is only halfway there.

I guess my only criticism is that the game is way too unfinished, and I'm sad about that. Sure, it's great for a one-man-in-his-bedroom kind of gig, but when you have access to an audience as wide as Croshaw's you should be really gunning for it! It's a good idea and I only hope that Ben begins to apply the same standard to his game development as he does to his writing.

 

[fractal_butterfly]

The Design of Consuming Shadow

Yahtzee lays out some of the design decisions behind his latest game, Consuming Shadow.

Read Full Article

Wait, what? The suicide cutscene is in fact a minigame?! I didn't get that Maybe you should make this more clear somehow. Or is there some kind of manual? I really liked the game, there are only smaller things I would change, like the lock-picking mechanics or the magic system. It is for me almost impossible to use attack spells, since time doesn't stop or even slow down when I try to cast them. But maybe this is part of the design? Did you intend for the player to guess the type of enemy and the threat it imposes before you see them by the noises they make, and then prepare the spell beforehand?

The random monster spawning in Consuming Shadow created the issue that you can avoid having to fight anything by leaving and re-entering the room each time a monster spawns, so I made sanity go down if you run away from them. A mechanic which only works if sanity loss is an effective punishment.

You had me up until here.

A real hallmark with Roguelikes - and something I really, really like about them - is that they reinforce how weak you are compared to the monsters of the dungeon by making them much stronger than your character - to the point that, at the time you initially encounter them, you simply have no hope of beating them. This is counterbalanced by one simple idea that many players find hard to understand - just don't fight them.

Sigmund appears on D:2? Just run to the upstairs and come down somewhere else.

Mechaspiders quest? No thanks, I like actually having a crew.

And so on. This only works if players have running as a viable option, and this is something most roguelikes actively give players resources to facilitate(Teleport/Blinking scrolls in Crawl, Staves of Blinking/Obstruction in Brogue, and so forth). Removing it as a viable option by slapping on a debilitating sanity penalty in Consuming Shadows sends the message to players that they HAVE to fight the monsters, even if they can't win with their current gear, which can only lead to frustration.

(Full disclaimer: I haven't played Consuming Shadows yet, and I've heard lots of good things about it, but I think Yahtzee should really reconsider his position here.)

Thats the beauty of it, the penalty for fleeing an enemy is rather moderate, so it boils down to a tactical decision. Either spend horrid amounts of resources, ammunition etc on an neigh unbeatable enemy, maybe even die. Or loose approximately one tenth of you sanity. You can go on, but you will feel a little bit of punishment. So you HAVE the option to flee, but you have to pay a price. It also feels right in the context and the theme of the game (lovecraftian horror).

 

[Amaror]

I don't really like the game. It's just not fun to click at shadows. And that's basically the game. I admit i haven't got too far into it, but the dungeons were boring to explore, since every screen looks and feels the same. Monsterts are boring to fight, since your just clicking on them and then they die.
Kind of ironic to see Yathzee, a horror gamer, that criticizes game that give you a gun against the monsters, make a game that sets you up with a gun against monsters.

I think it would work pretty well, if he replaced the boring combat with a stealth mechanic, so that you hide from the monsters, instead of fighting them.
It would be more tense, too.

 

[Xan Krieger]

Enjoying the game, yet to get to the Stonehenge finale, been close twice, level 5 (soon six) so I've had a few runs.

Well done Yahtzee, the game is certainly keeping me playing it. And I'm no fan of horror (I like Arkham Horror though )

Just one question:

The guy with the Hat who spans in some dungeons, I have yet been able to kill him even I shoot and beat him, like, A LOT!!
Am I just that bad at this

Now I just wait to encounter him to have another shot at him :,(

Spoiler: sthpoilers

It's one of the three "Run away now" enemies. The other are the tall man and the big head. Being swallowed by the big head costs hours and quite a bit of insanity. The hat guy just keeps hurting you. The tall man presumably kills you, I was playing the older version where he crashed the game. It hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts.

The tall guy is basically slenderman in that the camera starts turning to static when you're close to him.

Also don't certain runes boost your sanity? I always cast whichever rune I come across because my stupid ass has yet to write down their meanings and some of them do say that you feel reassured which seems like a small boost to sanity. As the game progresses I like that you can basically gamble with your mind, do you risk casting a powerful spell to save yourself now but increase the risk of suicide later?

While I'm thinking about it it needs more death animations than simply falling on your face, it's why Dead Space really makes you want to not die. Falling over isn't as scary as being impaled or having your head removed.

Finally thank you so much for the keyboard controls, they're a lifesaver.

 

[[REDACTED]]

The tall guy is basically slenderman in that the camera starts turning to static when you're close to him.

Actually (puts on "Irritating Pedantic Nerd" hat), the Tall Man was created by Yahtzee before Slenderman ever existed.

 

[Xan Krieger]

]

The tall guy is basically slenderman in that the camera starts turning to static when you're close to him.

Actually (puts on "Irritating Pedantic Nerd" hat), the Tall Man was created by Yahtzee before Slenderman ever existed.

My apologies, I hadn't done any prior research. So I take it this means Yahtzee is the actual creator of something that has made so many grown men scream in terror?

 

[[REDACTED]]

]

The tall guy is basically slenderman in that the camera starts turning to static when you're close to him.

Actually (puts on "Irritating Pedantic Nerd" hat), the Tall Man was created by Yahtzee before Slenderman ever existed.

My apologies, I hadn't done any prior research. So I take it this means Yahtzee is the actual creator of something that has made so many grown men scream in terror?

Sort of... in an extremely indirect fashion. All I know is that the Tall Man was a villain from the Chzo games, and that they came before Slenderman.

 

[strumbore]

That's true, but to get right down to brass tacks, Ben Croshaw is a very one-dimensional character writer. I have read his work. Short stories on Fullyramblomatic.com, as well as excerpts from Mogworld and JAM! All his characters are singularly focused ("singularly focused"=/="determined") and there is an omnipresent, awkward tension between his characters at all times.

What, have you actually read any of what he wrote? The whole singular focus/determination thing is the entire point of Never mind, just realised you admitted, in your criticism of an author's writing, having never actually fucking read that author's actual writing.

I've "admitted" no such thing. Croshaw's writing is extremely accessible on the internet and I've read nearly everything short of paying to read his ***TWO*** published novels.

Why are you swearing? You might as well be screaming at the computer. Please control yourself. =/

Judging a book by its cover is one thing, but judging am author by books you've never actually read is an entirely new level of low.p

Croshaw's website has links to a lot of what he has written, published/unpublished, fiction/nonfiction. I read some of it. By internet standards, a lot of it. I read as much of Croshaw's "Articulate Jim" as I could stand two or so years ago. As his new books came out, I read all the excerpts I could find, on his site and otherwise, and they're all very similar in tone despite his disclaimers on his earlier work. As a critic he's inflammatory and juvenile, but take away the homosexual undertones and scat humor, and he's a great critic I happen to agree with most of the time. That is why I read so much of his other work and tested his game.

Also, stop repeating "as it stands right now". It's bad writing, incredibly bad communication and also makes you sound like a psychopath
(which, for reference, isn't an insult. Compulsive use of fillers is an actual sign of that, jsyk)

I didn't care to break out my thesaurus to repeatedly distinguish existing problems and potential solutions.

What is swearing at literary criticism on video-game forums a sign of?

 

[thiosk]

I rather liked the game. Now, it turns out, my wife won't let me play it, or state of decay, and this has to do with sound effects. The Squish squish bang bang gurgle gurgle drives her up the wall. Sometimes I wonder if her spiderlike behavior is a sign of posession by minions by the elder gods, but I just ignore it and go back to writing.

For critique, I'd say that in the early game, there is probably not enough to do before death. I didn't feel so much like an investigator but more of a dude with comically few bullets (i don't even keep a spare box of ammo in the car? i know we're in the UK here but come on) trying to figure out which enemies to pistol whip and which to shoot in the face.

I had some difficulty with the controls and speeds but that would sort out with a couple more run throughs.

 

[rofltehcat]

I really like the game but some things I'd love to see improved upon:

-Magic: I like the idea of using the runes to cast something and it works well for healing and buff spells but the combat spells are very clumsy to use. Maybe adding a way of activating the runes directly from the game's main bar or some sort of fast-casting system would be great.
Also more spells would be cool. What about a containment circle that can be placed on the ground and traps enemies?

-Weapons: Maybe a cricket bat or something else as a melee weapon? Basically a longer reach melee attack, maybe with "durability" or just a simple chance to break or something comparable. It could replace armor piercing bullets which feel a bit unnecessary because you don't often fight enough enemies at once and even then they don't line up in a straight line.

-Dungeons: They play very similar and I always go at them the same way (run straight ahead, then clear north or south rooms, then the other side). Of course the objectives vary but until you stumble over it, the dungeons are extremely similar. I'm sure Yahtzee will improve them but maybe adding stuff like traps, maps, enemies you want to avoid, ways to avoid enemies, maybe summon allies/cannonfodder...

-Loot overspill: I get so many situations where I get 4 bullets when I already am at full capacity. Leaving the overspill behind so you can pick it up later would be handy but isn't the only option for changing this.

-Skills: For me, it feels like some are too weak whereas others (car speed) are extremely potent. Car speed for example lets you breeze everywhere, collect lots of money and everything else faster. Lockpicking on the other hand is applied only very rarely in the game and then there are alternatives like the spell and the janitor key in nearly every dungeon. Maybe lockpicking could be combined with something else like slightly better loot? Or make it a "detective" skill that also increases you chance to find clues and/or gives hints for wall runes or random encounters?
There could also be a magic skill that gives you random starting spells when having a few points into them and that decreases their sanity drain. It could also help slightly with wall runes.
What about med kit capacity? Maybe turn it into first aid that also decreases the chance for fractures/bleeding or gives more options in random encounters.

-Random encounters: I think there could be a few options in them based on having a high enough skill in something. This could help particularly the weaker skills.