The difference between PC and Console FPS games.

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TrevHead

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Wolfram01 said:
Actually I've been on both PC and consoles since I was little. My first FPS games were Blakestone, Wolfenstein 3D, Duke Nukem 3D, Quake, Doom, etc, all on PC. I currently have a pretty sick desktop too.

Regardless of that false assumption, my point was simply that the old gameplay style of throwing a lot of ennemies at the player who have simple straight line pathing is pathetically simplistic. Now that AI can hide in cover or run around and surround you, going back to that old style would appear silly.

And as for controls, I clearly said a thumbstick is more precise than WASD but NOT more precise than a mouse.
Ahh my bad, sorry about that, it was a dumbass brain fart on my part. Your avatar even shows a modded rig.

Ok moving onto modern FPS games I think you are correct that good FPS games can be dynamic in their own way, IE tactics and (good) enemy AI like that used in the FEAR games. But I still think there is room for new old styled action FPS with lots of strafing, Ild argue that stereotyping all these games as dumb is wrong.

As with many good arcade / retro action games the better examples are simple in their play mechanics so that someone can playing in a casual and "dumb" way if they just put the difficulty on easy. However to play in a skilled and advanced plystyle takes just as much strategy as modern warfare FPS games.

funguy2121 said:
No, the levels are more linear because the developers think the only way to mass market their products is to literally dumb them down for mass consumption. See eponymous Prince of Persia for more on this. The developer bragged that it's "easier to be a bad-ass" in this game in which you literally cannot die. There's too much emphasis on pretty graphics and scripted events. I call it post-Metal Gear Solid syndrome. In many franchises, the games are slowly becoming interactive movies. This has nothing to do with the limitations of consoles, though I'm sure it affects PC games when it comes to ports because PC games (aside from Farmville, et al) are usually more "hardcore" in that they don't have a sturdy tutorial system and assume you're already a master of the genre so they don't focus so much on marketing.
Yes you are correct but I still believe that the analog stick, wii controller and kinnect are all having just as much an effect on game design as the casual mass market. Its simple logic that if aiming, strafing and 180 degree turns are easier to preform, more gamers will do more of those actions, and the opposite is true that when something is harder less pll will preform these actions.

Im no game designer but ild imagine that when developers are using the public to beta test and balance their games they will notice the gamers general playstyle and change the game to suit how their playtesters are playing.
 

TrevHead

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BTW has anyone actually played both the PC and console versions of a old style action FPS? Im wondering just what changes are made when porting a PC fps over to console. From my limited knowledge of watching console gameplay vids of quake 2 ild always thought that the the baddies are given a longer time between appearing onscreen and starting to shoot at the player, which allows for the longer reaction and aiming time for pad players
 

JET1971

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Danceofmasks said:
snippage

There's no reason why analog sticks don't work better than they do.
Thats very very true, I used to use an analog stick at work that was so precise there was no difference than the high end laser mouse. but then again that was a standard PC flight sim joystick adapted to control a robotic arm...

Control capabilities factor into dumbing down of games in more ways than just precision issues. lets talk about the loss of features such as the ability to lean right or left? toggle kneeling with kneeling thats not toggled. (I had to get a 3rd party script to get toggle kneel working in BFBC2 otherwise i had to hold down the kneel button making it harder to adjust position without standing up accidently and using it i lost the ability to quickly kneel as long as I held the button down). how about scope up with right mouse where you need to hold the mouse button down or hit a keyboard button to toggle scope and it stays up until you either hit the right mouse or the toggle key? then features like NVG and binoculars? what about prone?? leaning is completly removed. toggle scope/kneeling or quick scope/kneel is either or and not both. prone is pretty much gone. NVG and binoculars seems to be either or or just plain not exhistant. those are just a few features that multiplatform FPS games lose that were considered standard for PC. thats just part of why we PC players ***** about and consider dumbing down for console.

Then theres the whole lack of choices on keyboard mapping. standard PC was every single control could be remaped ingame. Now theres some that cannot. I myself despise using WASD and always remap to use arrow keys numpad and the surounding around the arrow keys when keys cannot be mapped makes is ridiculous just because on a console you cant map controls. why is advanced video settings limited now? oh wait because Consoles do not have that feature.

I dont give a shit if the games are multiplatform but I do give a shit when features are removed or just not added for the sake of multiplatform. thats not elitist! thats not being happy getting less bang for the buck.
 

Joccaren

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funguy2121 said:
No, the levels are more linear because the developers think the only way to mass market their products is to literally dumb them down for mass consumption. See eponymous Prince of Persia for more on this. The developer bragged that it's "easier to be a bad-ass" in this game in which you literally cannot die. There's too much emphasis on pretty graphics and scripted events. I call it post-Metal Gear Solid syndrome. In many franchises, the games are slowly becoming interactive movies. This has nothing to do with the limitations of consoles, though
You got it right that devolpers, well, not developers, marketing, think the only way to sell the game is to dumb it down. But, there is a reason for this. Yes, any player well experienced in the use of consoles could probably overcome more enemies on screen and them coming from multiple directions (talking more FPSs here) due to the fact that the level is non-linear, even if they would have a far harder time that that of someone on a gaming PC, however, the fair majority of the console players marketing has in mind (sadly the seven year olds, even though the game is rated MA15+, marketing still makes their campaigns to sell to these guys, most of the time [especially EA]) do not have the skills or the experience to be able to handle such situations, and thus would not enjoy the game. They would also have no wish to learn how to handle such situations. If on a PC, they may be able to overcome these challenges due to the more precise and responsive controls (in most game types), however, since they use consoles, they would have a harder time playing and would not enjoy the game, a game that is not enjoyable doesn't sell, a game that doesn't sell isn't worth making, and thus such games are 'streamlined' to fit these console players.

It is dumbing down for consoles, as on a PC there wouldn't be as much trouble with the game being hard due to non linear levels, many enemies at once ect, though it would still be harder than what most younger PC players are used too.
A game that is too hard and thus unenjoyable for the, sadly, intended audience won't sell, and thus isn't made.

Its not entirely the fault of consoles, but it is equally shared by those players and the limitations of a console.

funguy2121 said:
because PC games (aside from Farmville, et al) are usually more "hardcore" in that they don't have a sturdy tutorial system and assume you're already a master of the genre so they don't focus so much on marketing.
An uneducated console player opinion. I really should make a thread on myths of the PC for console players, if it hadn't been made so many times already, but here it goes.

Yes, a number of PC games used to be more hardcore, they are not so much anymore due to the fact that developers want to release the same game on all platforms, and higher hardcore levels would be difficult for console players to handle. There are some games that I will call more hardcore these days though, mostly ones that aren't on consoles though, and even then mostly RTSs.

PC games aren't more hardcore because they don't have a good tutorial system, to the contrary, a number of PC games have great tutorial systems, I find console games have weaker ones when I play them. They are more hardcore as they were designed to be more challenging, to send a lot of enemies at the player from multiple directions at once with weapons that can almost instantly kill you, and the player is meant to be able to survive this (Crysis 1 was a good exampple in some spots. You, at times, had three squads of enemies (around 4-8 members per squad) coming at you from three different directions, and even with maximum armour you could only survive around 7 hits, and these guns shot fast (they were assault rifles after all). I have not played Crysis 2, so I cannot comment, but I consider Crysis 1, so long as you don't just stealth past all the fights, a somewhat hardcore game.
There are also other issues such as certain more in depth features that console players find clunky, but PC players love and that add depth to the game, these are also things that make the games more 'hardcore'. Though all of this is only if it is implemented properly.

PC games don't assume you are a master of the genre and not give you a tutorial, as if they did, no one would have any idea what is going on or how to do anything, and thus would not enjoy the game.
 

JET1971

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Dumbing down example.. BFBC2 Mcomm gets set, alarm is going off. you run to it and hit the button to shut it off. "Son of a *****!!!" same key to work the mcom as it is to pick up a weapon now forget about getting your old kit back. same bs setting it. weapon at the foot of a ladder you want to pick up.. "FFFFUUUUU........!!!!!!!!!!!1!" you just atached to the ladder instead. try to attach to an emplaced weapon? oh look you picked up a sniper rifle.

Oh look 110 keys and we have 2-3 functions set to one generic key rather than seperate.
 

maturin

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Sort of silly of you to bring up Arma 2, whose realistic gameplay style is the exact opposite of the running round and round while targeting six different enemies style you brought up earlier. But ArmA could never be played on consoles because you need all that avatar control to avoid being shot.

In that game you can crawl, crawl slowly, walk, walk while aiming, walk slower while aiming, walk while leaning (which can be toggled), run and sprint. That is eight different speeds of movement with their own rhythms affecting aim. You can also move your arms independent of your head or move your head without the camera, duck while standing or crouching, and raise your torso while prone. All this can be done without Track IR and the only button you need that wasn't used in the PC version of CoD 4 is Alt.
 

Kahunaburger

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JET1971 said:
Dumbing down example.. BFBC2 Mcomm gets set, alarm is going off. you run to it and hit the button to shut it off. "Son of a *****!!!" same key to work the mcom as it is to pick up a weapon now forget about getting your old kit back. same bs setting it. weapon at the foot of a ladder you want to pick up.. "FFFFUUUUU........!!!!!!!!!!!1!" you just atached to the ladder instead. try to attach to an emplaced weapon? oh look you picked up a sniper rifle.

Oh look 110 keys and we have 2-3 functions set to one generic key rather than seperate.
Haha I have died so many times from this. Although I think the ideal solution is actually to dumb it down even more - just have the player start automatically disarming when they walk near the MCOM. There's no reason you would want to not disarm it.
 

JET1971

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Kahunaburger said:
JET1971 said:
Dumbing down example.. BFBC2 Mcomm gets set, alarm is going off. you run to it and hit the button to shut it off. "Son of a *****!!!" same key to work the mcom as it is to pick up a weapon now forget about getting your old kit back. same bs setting it. weapon at the foot of a ladder you want to pick up.. "FFFFUUUUU........!!!!!!!!!!!1!" you just atached to the ladder instead. try to attach to an emplaced weapon? oh look you picked up a sniper rifle.

Oh look 110 keys and we have 2-3 functions set to one generic key rather than seperate.
Haha I have died so many times from this. Although I think the ideal solution is actually to dumb it down even more - just have the player start automatically disarming when they walk near the MCOM. There's no reason you would want to not disarm it.
I died a few times trying to both disarm and arm because im standing there spazzing on the button and cussing up a storm as I franticly cycle through a pile of weapons when i just want to use the Mcomm. bang im dead now my weapon is added to the frustrating lil pile.
 

TheDanielG

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A few points regarding the console:
a) Cover based shooters are WAY easier.
b) You can continuesly turn, unlike picking up the mouse for the PC.
c) I find the "other" actions like melee and driving a tank or sneaking with a stick is easier.
 

Spygon

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I agree with the easier to hit multiple targets on screen but i still feel moving around a corner while keeping your gun in line with your movements alot more fluid on a controller.

I play FPS on both controllers and M&K i still believe both sides have their disadvantages and advanatges over each other.Also feel the games your using to make your point are really not that well suited for the arguement.As how many games have you running around in circles trying to hit multi same sized targets these days
 

Woodsey

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"While more slower paced tactical shooters like modern warfare 2 "

Is that a typo?

Anyway, an analogue stick has a mechanical speed limit, a mouse essentially doesn't, that's why its more accurate and faster.
 

Michael Brunson

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When it comes to PC vs. console FPS I have to admit Console does have a few good ones out there. However I have to side with PC on this because of 2 words. Counter Strike. Find me one console game that has been running for 10+ years and is still running strong. Counter Strike isn't the only one either for example, I recently just found out that Wolfenstein Enemy Territory still has many servers that are fully populated.

Console shooters are great and they can be extremely popular, but they just can't compare to the longevity and modability of PC
 

LetalisK

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It's threads like these that remind me that my XIM3 was a great investment. I get the best of all worlds, muhahaha!
 

C95J

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Well you know what? I don't give a fuck about all this Console Vs. PC shit. I play games to have fun! Why do people even care about how much precision or speed they get when playing CoD, or any game for that matter?? Or which is "better suited" to play the game?? It's all just a stupid argument over who has the a bigger cock, where everyone is waving their cock around for no reason, when there is no real point in the argument in the first place.

Just play the damn games and enjoy them.
 

barbzilla

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C95J said:
Well you know what? I don't give a fuck about all this Console Vs. PC shit. I play games to have fun! Why do people even care about how much precision or speed they get when playing CoD, or any game for that matter?? Or which is "better suited" to play the game?? It's all just a stupid argument over who has the a bigger cock, where everyone is waving their cock around for no reason, when there is no real point in the argument in the first place.

Just play the damn games and enjoy them.
I am with you on this one, if you enjoy the game play it. It doesn't matter what system it is for. If you don't enjoy the game don't buy it. Vote with your money folks. It really does help.
 

kloiberin_time

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My two cents after reading the first post and a few after it (sorry if it has been said)

If you like console games play console games. If you like PC games play PC games. If you like both good for you.

As for what is ruining PC games, it is not console exclusive, it is not steam or DMR or anything like it. It is the fact that the constant demand for better, fancier graphics ends up shooting PC gamers in the foot.

A lot of PC gamers know how to put a machine together. Most can go to newegg or tigerdirect and get the parts cheaper and put it together. Some can afford to pay Dell thousands for a machine. A lot of the people who are console exclusive don't know how to build a machine and cannot afford an overpriced Dell or the like.

I don't have the source in front of me but I heard that the largest demographic of gamers are between the ages of 18-35. As someone who falls into that age range I can say this. For years I was console exclusive because I could drop 300 bucks once every 3-5 years for a console and be happy. I did not have the grand needed to build a machine from scratch that could keep up with games for 3-5 years.

I also did not have the cash to buy games new all the time. Sure two or three would come out a year that I would buy new, but the majority of the games I played from the age of 18-25 were used. Juggling a car payment, rent, tuition and all of the other expenses of life on 10 bucks and hour and a few thousand dollars in student loans was hard. I didn't have 60 bucks to blow every month or two on a new game. And when I did it cut into all of my entertainment. I knew that if I bought Oblivion when it came out that I would not be seeing any movies for a few months, or that my dates had to be less extravagant.

Now that I make the money I do and can afford to get new releases I have less time and less energy. I can't play a game until 4 in the morning, sleep until 8 and be fine a work, especially not multiple times a week like I could. In high school I beat FF9 in a nonstop 50 hour marathon over a weekend and then got up monday morning and went to class. Now if I do not get at least 6 hours a night I need a caffeine IV to make it to lunch.

I am also juggling a relationship, a full time job, full time school and a social life on top of gaming. I would love to sit down and play something for 40 hours straight again, but I can't.

tl:dr version-
Young and poor: could not afford to be a PC gamer
Not as Young and busy: not enough time to play most new releases.
 

Dr. Feelgood

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Sure, your mouse is pretty good for aiming, but that keyboard is a f****n monstrosity. I'd rather spend half a second pressing a button, than 5 seconds looking for a damn key.
 

Audio

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I tend to 'scoff' at console FPS but i'm playing metroid prime 2 echoes again ... and it's really good with the game cube pad!
There will always be little quirks i do with the mouse which i cant do with a pad. But the potential is still there on the console. Just need to fiddle with sensitivity.
 

omega_peaches

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I used to be a PC gamer, and now I am a console bro.
When I was a PC guy, I was wishing I had enough money to buy a console, because I simply like it more.
Another difference you talked about was the community. From my experience, the PC crowd is a lot more hardcore, and the consoles are a lot more casual, and I like that more.
I still like PC though.