The dreaded water level
- Thread starter Rich Webb
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Was it New Super Mario Bros Wii that has the floating blocks of water suspended in mid air that you could swim through? I really liked that idea.
I guess with the definition of a water level being in question here, you have to look what it's there for.
If maneuverability is a real pain and you're not really supposed to be in the water then I suppose it makes sense. When I play Farcry3, I brick myself in the water because if I'm in the sea, I'm expecting sharks and in freshwater I'm expecting crocs. Same goes for Treasure trove cove in Banjo Kazooie. That freaky, self cloaking, shark that is surely the stuff of nightmares is probably a mechanism to keep players focused on the land puzzles. Sure, you have to take a dip now and then but it always puts emphasis on you doing so as quick as you can!
The water temple is another kettle of fish (excuse the pun) because you're expected to trudge around in that nonsense for hours. One thing that would have made the water temple in OoT a lot more enjoyable would be the way that the animations of the character were handled. If you jumped toward a ledge and just missed it, splashing into the water, before you can climb out, you have to wait for his "settling in the water" animation to finish and then Link will grab the ledge. There were many other little glitchy animation annoyances in this game (particularly regarding that damn horse) but I forgave almost all of them. Like many people have said, perhaps the mechanics of the water features were not as highly scrutinised in the development of the game. Either way, that drove me bonkers.
While on the topic, the water temple in Majoras Mask will always be even worse but more for the fact it just felt really rushed/neglected.
I guess with the definition of a water level being in question here, you have to look what it's there for.
If maneuverability is a real pain and you're not really supposed to be in the water then I suppose it makes sense. When I play Farcry3, I brick myself in the water because if I'm in the sea, I'm expecting sharks and in freshwater I'm expecting crocs. Same goes for Treasure trove cove in Banjo Kazooie. That freaky, self cloaking, shark that is surely the stuff of nightmares is probably a mechanism to keep players focused on the land puzzles. Sure, you have to take a dip now and then but it always puts emphasis on you doing so as quick as you can!
The water temple is another kettle of fish (excuse the pun) because you're expected to trudge around in that nonsense for hours. One thing that would have made the water temple in OoT a lot more enjoyable would be the way that the animations of the character were handled. If you jumped toward a ledge and just missed it, splashing into the water, before you can climb out, you have to wait for his "settling in the water" animation to finish and then Link will grab the ledge. There were many other little glitchy animation annoyances in this game (particularly regarding that damn horse) but I forgave almost all of them. Like many people have said, perhaps the mechanics of the water features were not as highly scrutinised in the development of the game. Either way, that drove me bonkers.
While on the topic, the water temple in Majoras Mask will always be even worse but more for the fact it just felt really rushed/neglected.
The WHOLE XCom 2: Terror From the Deep.
Thought Chryssalids were scary? Looks like you never fought Tentaculats...
Thought Chryssalids were scary? Looks like you never fought Tentaculats...
Shh, shh, shh. It will all be better soon.Daystar Clarion said:
OT: I have never really had a game where I found a despicable water level however I was never able to take out the mechanical fish with Diddy Kong in Donkey Kong 64. Never, ever. Hell, never even passed the game because I could never find the second medal to unlock the door in king Rule's[sic] throne room.
I actually liked Mario water levels, Mario swims quite fast and the way he bobs up and down allows you to get a nice rhythm up and slalom through sections. Most water levels are arse though. Trying to get a platinum relic in a Crash Bandicoot water level makes me want to claw out my own eyeballs.
Because most swimming controls in action games are... terrible.
Majora's Mask had very good swimming, though. The Zora parts were undoubtedly one of the best parts of the whole game, if only just for a breath of fresh air, said game being one where the entire game is basically just trial and error.
Majora's Mask had very good swimming, though. The Zora parts were undoubtedly one of the best parts of the whole game, if only just for a breath of fresh air, said game being one where the entire game is basically just trial and error.
I can't say I ever tested a water level back when I was a tester, but I'd imagine that it gets a bit of a pass due to the break in the mechanics. When you are testing a game (professionally) you don't get to just play it. You are usually stuck testing a couple mechanics at a time, get set into one part of one area to do anything and everything you can to try to break that area, or asked to attempt certain feats/tasks/activities/whatever ad nauseam (such as trying to beat a level using nothing but shield bash). This is all from the mid to late 90s though, so things have probably changed a bit and I imagine that most testing is done with scripting to replicate the tests as quickly as possible.
As for water levels and testers (from my experience), pretty much any mechanic that broke up the monotony was a welcome change. So, I can imagine that water levels tested well, even though they aren't generally beloved by the public. I think more studios need testers who's primary job is to just play the complete experience, and then elaborate on all of the parts they enjoyed, and expound on all of the parts they loathed (though this would be even more of a limited time contract than most testing jobs, so it may not be appealing to most testers).
As for water levels and testers (from my experience), pretty much any mechanic that broke up the monotony was a welcome change. So, I can imagine that water levels tested well, even though they aren't generally beloved by the public. I think more studios need testers who's primary job is to just play the complete experience, and then elaborate on all of the parts they enjoyed, and expound on all of the parts they loathed (though this would be even more of a limited time contract than most testing jobs, so it may not be appealing to most testers).
Here's the thing: if it's really a water level, and not just a water-themed level, the water will do something to fundentally alter how the game is played. A devteam that's very good at designing levels for the game as normal isn't necessarily as good at designing levels for the different game you're suddenly playing, and even if they are, not all players who like the base game will like the new mechanics being introduced. So whatever the specific flaw is, if one level sticks out as worse than the others, water levels just have a few more ways to do that.
Having to constantly switch out the Iron Boots is just the tip of the iceberg. If you've played it, you know that the first major obstacle once you get your bearings is a hunt for a multitude of keys to access Dark Link's chamber. Many of these are well hidden, with the one buried beneath the 'central column' of the temple being the most commonly missed, along with one that required you to drain the water completely and then climb up to the top level. This led to some very persistent rumours that it was possible to make the temple unwinnable if you used a key on the wrong door.LauriJ said:
Beyond that, people just weren't used to navigating in three dimensions (also Link is poor at fighting underwater) and became exasperated with having to revisit every single area (about 12 corridors branching off from the central chamber) with different water levels. It is also quite possible to miss the Zora Tunic completely, making things even tougher.
We don't find it difficult now, but that's because we've done it before. There's a Blind LP I saw that required SEVEN episodes (about 20 minutes each) to reach Dark Link. Whereas they completed the entire Fire Temple in 4 episodes.
OT, I've only found 3D water levels problematic due to how often swimming controls are left to the last minute in games, and how difficult large, dark submerged areas make it to navigate. My worst one is probably the sewer in Jedi Knight's expansion pack, Mysteries of the Sith. Dark, dank, filled with Dianogas and worse, and so vast that you can easily get lost even in the two minutes of oxygen you get (there are no air pockets). Finally, this is right after you've had all your weapons stripped from you except the Lightsaber.
