Xpwn3ntial said:
Dirty Apple said:
I'm gonna add something a touch unorthodox and say that the Tarrasque in all its monumental and catastrophic splendor is irredeemable. I mean has anyone ever successfully ran a campaign where this monstrosity appears and is actually killed? And if so did it take the intervention of a god or multiple gods? It just seems too unwieldy and unbalanced to be employed in a serious game.
My brother played a game where the DM threw one at them just to get them out of the town they were in. Turns out, they had a wizard with a dagger that makes you pass out or something and the Tarrasque passed out. Then they buried its head in dirt and it suffocated.
Wish I could've seen the DM's face.
I kind of want to use a Ragamoffyn now. It'd be perfect for a haunted house adventure.
I call BS on this.
First, the wizard would have to get within melee range. The Tarrasque has a +7 initiative modifier (equal to 24dex) so it's far more likely the wizard would have ended up a bloody smear on the ground before they could do anything. But they may have got lucky...
Second, the wizard would have had to hit the Tarrasque. Assuming the dagger was Epic to overcome the damage reduction to inflict damage to trigger special abilities, the Tarrasque still has 35ac which would require a natural 20 for a Wizard to hit. But they might've given the dagger to a higher BAB party member...
Third, the Tarrasque would have to fail its saving throw. Considering its worst saving throw is +20will (vs. mind affecting), it would still require an Epic Sleep spell (which starts at DC20, and takes an additional +2spellcraft or 2levels per additional +1DC) to have a shot at consistently overcoming the will save. But the Tarrasque might've rolled a 1...
Fourth, they'd have had to excavated enough dirt to bury the head. The Tarrasque is 70ft long, and standard body proportions indicate that this would give a head of around 9.3ft, meaning the party would have to excavate an volume of ~810cubic ft. Using the 6th level spell "Move Earth" takes 10minutes to remove the dirt, 10minutes to replace the dirt (bury the head), and another 9 minutes for the Tarrasque to suffocate (2 rounds per con at 35 con, and an extra 20 rounds to "Take 20" and fail the suffocation saving throw, then 3 rounds to "die"). This is well beyond the time limit of a standard sleep spell, and any "slapping or wounding" (i.e. stabbing with the dagger additional times) will break the Sleep. But they might've been able to quickly and quietly perform the task in less than 30minutes...
Fifth, the Tarrasque has a special form of regeneration which states states that ANY death effect due to failed saving throw instead inflicts 868hp of non-lethal damage. This overrides the normal "regeneration does not heal suffocation damage", and means the Tarrasque has another 93 rounds before "suffocating" again - plenty of time to regen at 40hp per round. No matter what, eventually it's going to wake up. But they might have a Wish ready for when it hits -10hp from the suffocation failure...
Sixth, you have a 1 round (6 second) window to cast that Wish spell so it stays dead (and even then you have to beat the Spell Resistance for an unwilling target). It's got a heavy carapace, which masks visible signs of breathing, and the head is buried so the airflow can't be checked. It's possible to use Sense Life, but that would assume the Wizard prepared it that day - which is pretty unlikely. But maybe the Wizard DID prepare sense life so they could detect the round the Tarrasque "died"...
Seventh, the use of a Wish when the Tarrasque hits -10 assumes that the characters know this information. Since the Tarrasque is unique the characters wouldn't know what's required to kill it - because no-one has ever done it before. As far as they know, just burying it should be enough to keep it dead (because that would overcome any non-Tarrasque regeneration). Even if someone in the world has attempted to bury it before, any observer of the previous failed attempt would assume (incorrectly) that the Tarrasque doesn't breathe so the characters wouldn't try that method.
The combination of suffocation plus Wish within the 6-second window is just too obscure for the characters to work out before they become a bloody smear on the ground.
Besides, the Tarrasque shouldn't be used by DM's as an opponent that players have to work out how to kill - it should be used as a force of nature that players have to work out how to divert. It's a living natural disaster that was invented because "Godzilla" is trademarked, not an intelligent archrival that drives a varied campaign story.
