The East Not Looking so Good

Recommended Videos

Inkidu

New member
Mar 25, 2011
966
0
0
I'm not talking about the tsunami in Japan hurting their game industry, though that tragedy cannot be understated in its horrible impact in much more than games. No, this is a trend I noticed long before that in what I bought and how I perceived Japan and the Eastern bloc of game developing. I'm not bashing anything, I'm just trying to state some pretty normal-guy observations.

I used to love Japan when I was younger, I watched anime, read manga, and Japanese video game could do no wrong. I was a real teenage weeaboo. However, about my first semester of college things really started to shift. It had kind of started before. Final Fantasy XII was my first real disappointment in the series, but I thought they would do better next time. A lot of my fascination with Japan just kind of withered and died.

Life goes on and I still think a Japanese game might come along that I like, and there were some. Brawl, a lot of Wii games. Then my Wii got stolen and I had nothing but an Xbox 360. Well, they make Japanese games for that. So two new Square Enix games had just come out more or less. Last Remnant and Infinite Undiscovery. Oh boy, was I ever more disappointed by a game in my life? Most likely not. I was genuinely disappointed in the game.

Then I started to notice a lot of trends, stereotypes, and tropes that were just kind of copied and pasted to the majority of Japanese entertainment. Not just spiky hair, but plot structure, a definite lack in what I thought was uniqueness and originality, and yes it's easy to point out the unoriginality of Western stuff, but Japan didn't come up with a plot of mystery and intrigue grounded in historical fact. Ubisoft did though, didn't they? I'm not saying all Japanese and Eastern stuff is bad, but as a mindset I think they, the Japanese especially, are refiners by nature. There's the occasional creative soul and he's lauded and praised, but mostly they're happy in the same-old, same-old because it makes it better. That's all well and good.

Maybe it's because the West is so culturally varied (in more overt ways) too that it just makes the East seem like old hat. All I know is I look at the way Square-Enix seems in dire financial straits, the way they've bought up Eidos, and then have to promise five new IPs I can't help but feel right on some level. I mean the last game I bought that was strictly Japanese was Resident Evil 5. I bought Dead Rising 2 and still love it, but it's done by Flying Castle now which is Canadian.

I know my souring taste for Eastern-market games is probably causing me to miss out on some real gems, but when I walk into my local Gamestop and see the newest thing from the East versus the newest from the West, I gravitate more towards the West. It wasn't always so. I just wonder what everyone else thinks on the Eastern-Western thing.
 

Snork Maiden

Snork snork
Nov 25, 2009
1,071
0
0
Ace Attorney, Monster Hunter, Street Fighter, Castlevania, Golden Sun, anything by Konami (which includes Metal Gear AND Pro Evo!), ANY good game on the Wii, Ninja Gaiden, we have a new PSO coming out, Bayonetta and Devil May Cry - there are plenty of great Japanese games that have come out over the last year. Maybe they aren't amazingly creative, but look at western releases - hello realistic military FPS and Space Marines? Even Bioware and Bethesda games follow very similar formulas - great games that are creative, but truly groundbreaking in the sense of mechanics? I wouldn't say they were any more creative than Mario Galaxy by any stretch.

I'd agree the Japanese market isn't the world dominating force it was in the 90s, but I think to say "it's all looking super bleak" is a bit of a stretch. Maybe you can show me sales figures showing that everything sliding but I think it's unfair to say "I gravitate towards the West" because Japense games show some kind of failure to be good on a cultural level. Using Square Enix as an example is about as fair as saying "Sonic has been shitty since 2006 (at least) so I all platformers aren't so good anymore and I find myself gravitating away from them."

My Steam library is predominantly made up of Western games, and (along with some absolute gems) it's chock full of games that just don't interest me. My own personal "normal guy observation" would be that I think the quality ratio is the same whether you buy a game from Japen or some Western company.

Inkidu said:
but Japan didn't come up with a plot of mystery and intrigue grounded in historical fact
What Western games did you feel had great stories? I know which ones I do, but I often think Western games have been put on a bit of a pedestal recently, story wise. If we're comparing RPGs I much preferred the story to FFXIII (which was not good) to the plotline of Oblivion or Fallout or even the main story of Mass Effect 2.
 

richd213

New member
Mar 2, 2011
112
0
0
Snork Maiden: are you saying pro evo is a good game? Fifa is in a much higher league to it.
 

Inkidu

New member
Mar 25, 2011
966
0
0
Snork Maiden said:
Ace Attorney, Monster Hunter, Street Fighter, Castlevania, Golden Sun, anything by Konami (which includes Metal Gear AND Pro Evo!), ANY good game on the Wii, Ninja Gaiden, we have a new PSO coming out, Bayonetta and Devil May Cry - there are plenty of great Japanese games that have come out over the last year. Maybe they aren't amazingly creative, but look at western releases - hello realistic military FPS and Space Marines? Even Bioware and Bethesda games follow very similar formulas - great games that are creative, but truly groundbreaking in the sense of mechanics? I wouldn't say they were any more creative than Mario Galaxy by any stretch.

I'd agree the Japanese market isn't the world dominating force it was in the 90s, but I think to say "it's all looking super bleak" is a bit of a stretch. Maybe you can show me sales figures showing that everything sliding but I think it's unfair to say "I gravitate towards the West" because Japense games show some kind of failure to be good on a cultural level. Using Square Enix as an example is about as fair as saying "Sonic has been shitty since 2006 (at least) so I all platformers aren't so good anymore and I find myself gravitating away from them."

My Steam library is predominantly made up of Western games, and (along with some absolute gems) it's chock full of games that just don't interest me. My own personal "normal guy observation" would be that I think the quality ratio is the same whether you buy a game from Japen or some Western company.

Inkidu said:
but Japan didn't come up with a plot of mystery and intrigue grounded in historical fact
What Western games did you feel had great stories? I know which ones I do, but I often think Western games have been put on a bit of a pedestal recently, story wise. If we're comparing RPGs I much preferred the story to FFXIII (which was not good) to the plotline of Oblivion or Fallout or even the main story of Mass Effect 2.
I'm not going to get in an opinionated fight on this, but Western games who stories beat out the East recently (Come on Golden Sun is old. You're pulling up a lot of stuff)You're also putting words in my mouth. I didn't say it was super bleak. I just don't think the Eastern market is in good shape. Look at all the stuff that never gets localized out to other countries. Still Digressing:

Assassin's Creed II (and generally as a franchise is doing remarkably well.)
Mass Effect 1 and 2.
Metro 20XX (I can't remember the numbers) Though actually where that falls on the East/West side of things is admittedly questionable.
GTA IV was really surprising
Red Dead Redemption was too.
I'd take Fallout 3 or New Vegas over the bowl of mishmash that is FF13.
Alpha Protocol's story (just the story)
Deus Ex
 

Wuffykins

New member
Jun 21, 2010
429
0
0
Well, from that perspective I can certainly see how you'd come to that idea, but I do remember that more than a few games from Japan have been, err, 'reflavoured' to better suit Western Audiences, though if it's due to interpretations during translation or outright intentional changing is sometimes up to debate.

Otherwise you're just not paying attention to the games that don't get released state-side because companies feel that it won't do well in the Western market or because a previous edition didn't do so well so sequels aren't translated. Take Sengoku Basara for instance, when Capcom brought over the first one they made changes suited to the American market which didn't do so well. So sequel, fighting game spin-off, and PSP game didn't follow the trip across the Pacific, unless you imported them, which is a damn shame. Or take Project Diva, which is a damned awesome and original take on rhythm games which will probably never come over simply because Hatsune Miku's just not popular enough outside of Japan to do it.

Also add to the fact of the increased cost in developing games for the 360 & PS3, plus the cost of translation/new voice overs, and you might see why they might want to either make it more suited for audiences or just not bother at all.

[Note: Not saying that all Japan-only games are original, I've definitely played some crap ones myself]
 

Netrigan

New member
Sep 29, 2010
1,924
0
0
Two words for you: crap filter.

Any imported item has been selected because someone thinks there's an audience. The more popular it gets, the less quality control in order to meet demand.

At some point we start seeing the cliches that have always been there, which we hadn't noticed because of our limited exposure to their culture.

I'm a fan of British TV and it didn't take me that long to find the utter crap they'll probably never officially export to the US.
 

Wicky_42

New member
Sep 15, 2008
2,468
0
0
Snork Maiden said:
Inkidu said:
but Japan didn't come up with a plot of mystery and intrigue grounded in historical fact
What Western games did you feel had great stories? I know which ones I do, but I often think Western games have been put on a bit of a pedestal recently, story wise. If we're comparing RPGs I much preferred the story to FFXIII (which was not good) to the plotline of Oblivion or Fallout or even the main story of Mass Effect 2.
I think he's talking about Assassin's Creed.

OT, I dunno - it's easy to criticise the pervasive tropes in Japanese media, especially the mass-produced stuff, but it's the same in American games - see COD as a prime example of refinement of generic tropes. As the Snork said, there's plenty of different stuff out there, but you do have to go looking for it. As with most things.
 

Bakuryukun

New member
Jul 12, 2010
392
0
0
Netrigan said:
Two words for you: crap filter.

Any imported item has been selected because someone thinks there's an audience. The more popular it gets, the less quality control in order to meet demand.

At some point we start seeing the cliches that have always been there, which we hadn't noticed because of our limited exposure to their culture.
YES. THIS. People don't reach this conclusion as much as the friggin should.

I used to be a purely Japanese game playing kind guy, Now I'd say it's more of a 60-40 split the former being japanese games the latter being western games. I mean sheesh, Right now I'm playing Orochi Warriors on the PS2, Illusion of Gaia on the SNES, 4 different versions of Pokemon on my DS (HeartGold, Ruby, Diamond and White versions) and Portal 2 on my PS3. so that's like...6 Japanese games, and 1 Western game. So there you go.
 

dyre

New member
Mar 30, 2011
2,178
0
0
Why is Square Enix buying Eidos a bad thing? :S

Eidos is an awesome game developer.

And yeah, the few JRPGs I've played have been a tad cliche-ridden, and tend to overemphasize on emotional scenes that just end up feeling stale, but I'm sure the Japanese are looking at us and saying "wow, those westerners and their generic shooters...the west sucks!"

Maybe their culture is just more into certain cliches than American culture is.
 

Onyx Oblivion

Borderlands Addict. Again.
Sep 9, 2008
17,021
0
0
Infinite Undiscovery and Last Remnant? UGH

Did you try Lost Odyssey? Tugged my emotions like never before. And offered a decent combat system, too.
 

Delusibeta

Reachin' out...
Mar 7, 2010
2,591
0
0
Most of what I want to post in relation to this thread is already posted by Snork Maiden and Netrigan. The West might have taken the "largest blockbuster" award away, but I agree with Snork in that development on both East and West is still pretty damn strong. Meanwhile, the stuff we get from Japan generally tends to be the cream of the crop, or at least the most popular stuff. That said, I've noticed an upswing in distinctly Japanese games getting imported recently, thanks to the likes of Rising Star and Aksys. Hell, Arc System Works (of Guilty Gear and Blazblue fame) has set up a European base.

And now for a cheap pot-shot:

Inkidu said:
(Come on Golden Sun is old. You're pulling up a lot of stuff)
I wish to draw your attention to Golden Sun: Dark Dawn [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Sun:_Dark_Dawn], which was released last year. I assume Snork was referring to this.
 

Snork Maiden

Snork snork
Nov 25, 2009
1,071
0
0
Inkidu said:
I'm not going to get in an opinionated fight on this, but Western games who stories beat out the East recently (Come on Golden Sun is old. You're pulling up a lot of stuff)You're also putting words in my mouth. I didn't say it was super bleak. I just don't think the Eastern market is in good shape. Look at all the stuff that never gets localized out to other countries. Still Digressing:
Golden Sun came out last Christmas? I'm fairly sure one iteration of each of those titles came out in the last year or so. Actually after quoting you I realise Delusibeta has already done the job of mentioning it for me, but oh well :/

And I wasn't really looking for an opinionated fight - I was genuinely curious. I don't think many games *at all* have good storylines, but I often see Japan getting unfairly pilloried for providing particularly inept plotlines.

For instance I haven't played New Vegas, but the main questlines in Bethesda games generally don't have good plots, and 99% of the quests don't either - those games strengths certainly aren't in their storytelling. The main quest of Mass Effect 2 is nonsensical - that games strength is in it's characters which is where that game shines. If you took individual characters squabbles out of FFXIII you'd have a passable (not great, but better than HUMAN REAPER) story.

I read my reply after I'd written it, and it looked all very "counter-rant" and I didn't mean it to come of that way - I just thought you were being a tad harsh on the eastern market. I know you didn't say it was "super bleak" but it's a thread entitled "The East Not Looking So Good" and the content is just about how you don't really like eastern games anymore :/

Inkidu said:
Assassin's Creed II (and generally as a franchise is doing remarkably well.)
Incidentally - I got the first Assasins Creed with my graphics card, but have never installed it. Would you recommend it? Well I guess you would, but would you give it like a 5-star "play it if you possibly can" recommendation?