The Elder Scrolls Online: Crafting the Perfect MMO

[Fdzzaigl]

There is one factual error in the article: when talking about the game's mail, the author states that "AH mail is delivered to you instantly".

However, there is no auction house in ESO. Instead, you need to be in a guild to sell your wares.

You can read about it in this article: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/10/18/tamriel-infinium-selling-your-wares-in-the-elder-scrolls-online/

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

I guess my idea of an incredibly polished experience and The Escapist's are two very different things.

 

[Karadalis]

I have yet to see anything about microtransactions other than what is considered standard already in most games, character server transfers/redesigns etc.

Couldn't agree more about the paywall issue but honestly you seem to be making a lot of points that don't really connect with just ESO, much like me you seem to be more or less disinterested in the mess that is the games industry as it relates to MMO's.

What I will say is that to a point the lack of an open beta is moot at this stage, I honestly think that _anyone_ who applied to the beta within the last year has probably been in the last two (had 300 man battles last beta for instance). That being said it is a double edged sword for a developer/publisher, an open beta can be beneficial just as often as it can be a bad thing. If I understand what Zenimax are trying with the beta set-up they're going through it is that they're trying to get as many people as possible whom they think will actually give them feedback as opposed to just get online and start trash talking in global chat or some such.

If you haven't played it yet you'd be better off trying it or at least waiting to see what people are saying in general once the NDA has been lifted before forming a final opinion on it. The idea that you can form an opinion which you then zealously defend and spread without ever actually trying a game is a contributing factor to the things you describe as "a bad bad idea".

It just encourages people to expect a pointlessly critical backlash against them unless they can build their own zealots to counter. Just read the post I made in this thread, the one with the quote, to understand what I'm trying to say about that.

Oh my... i have an opinion that doesnt kiss the devs feet... guess i must be a hater that makes stuff up right?

My opinion isnt just made up of assumptions.. ill leave it at that.

But lets say even if it was:

The bland spunkgargleweewee color palette, the "been there done that" feel of gameplay, the feel of the combat system being garbage... its all there in plain sight on youtube right now, just look up angry joes video of it. Hits have no impact, you can run through enemies, the loot system is a nightmare since its first come first serve. I can say all this without breaking any NDA.

Elderscrolls is an MMO by the numbers and doesnt dare to do anything that could be seen as breaking the mold. Their freeform level system isnt going to carry the game... just as full voicing was not able to carry the old republic.

Its a theme park MMO of admitedly high quality... but the same was true for TORtanic and we all know how that ended up. There is nothing special but the IP that allready gets all rolled over by pre order sales.

And about the microtransactions: As i said, one of the Devs stated in an interview that they would implement them, just a week or two after saying "subscriptions because we want to keep the integrity of the game". So much for that. When and how they are going to implement them he didnt said.. but im sick and tired of being nickled and dimed by Subscription games. I allready pay 14 euros every month.. why the hell are there microtransactions? I should have access to that content by default.

If they want me to keep spending 14 euros every month for the same game they shouldnt try to lure me in with the same old washed out gameplay mechanics that EVERYONE else does.

Elderscrolls is just another entry in the same old line up of mmos.. have you played one of them you have played them all. Its like the difference between CoD and medal of honour.

Elderscrolls online might be enjoyable for alot of people, but praising it as "the next big thing" smells so much of The old republic that im seriously starting to believe im having a deja vu.

Now no one talks about TORtanic anymore besides if its used as a negative example and i think Elder scrolls online will just be another entry in the endless list of "lets try to copy WoWs success and fail with it"

 

[PuckFuppet]

I have yet to see anything about microtransactions other than what is considered standard already in most games, character server transfers/redesigns etc.

Couldn't agree more about the paywall issue but honestly you seem to be making a lot of points that don't really connect with just ESO, much like me you seem to be more or less disinterested in the mess that is the games industry as it relates to MMO's.

What I will say is that to a point the lack of an open beta is moot at this stage, I honestly think that _anyone_ who applied to the beta within the last year has probably been in the last two (had 300 man battles last beta for instance). That being said it is a double edged sword for a developer/publisher, an open beta can be beneficial just as often as it can be a bad thing. If I understand what Zenimax are trying with the beta set-up they're going through it is that they're trying to get as many people as possible whom they think will actually give them feedback as opposed to just get online and start trash talking in global chat or some such.

If you haven't played it yet you'd be better off trying it or at least waiting to see what people are saying in general once the NDA has been lifted before forming a final opinion on it. The idea that you can form an opinion which you then zealously defend and spread without ever actually trying a game is a contributing factor to the things you describe as "a bad bad idea".

It just encourages people to expect a pointlessly critical backlash against them unless they can build their own zealots to counter. Just read the post I made in this thread, the one with the quote, to understand what I'm trying to say about that.

Oh my... i have an opinion that doesnt kiss the devs feet... guess i must be a hater that makes stuff up right?

My opinion isnt just made up of assumptions.. ill leave it at that.

But lets say even if it was:

The bland spunkgargleweewee color palette, the "been there done that" feel of gameplay, the feel of the combat system being garbage... its all there in plain sight on youtube right now, just look up angry joes video of it. Hits have no impact, you can run through enemies, the loot system is a nightmare since its first come first serve. I can say all this without breaking any NDA.

Elderscrolls is an MMO by the numbers and doesnt dare to do anything that could be seen as breaking the mold. Their freeform level system isnt going to carry the game... just as full voicing was not able to carry the old republic.

Its a theme park MMO of admitedly high quality... but the same was true for TORtanic and we all know how that ended up. There is nothing special but the IP that allready gets all rolled over by pre order sales.

And about the microtransactions: As i said, one of the Devs stated in an interview that they would implement them, just a week or two after saying "subscriptions because we want to keep the integrity of the game". So much for that. When and how they are going to implement them he didnt said.. but im sick and tired of being nickled and dimed by Subscription games. I allready pay 14 euros every month.. why the hell are there microtransactions? I should have access to that content by default.

If they want me to keep spending 14 euros every month for the same game they shouldnt try to lure me in with the same old washed out gameplay mechanics that EVERYONE else does.

Elderscrolls is just another entry in the same old line up of mmos.. have you played one of them you have played them all. Its like the difference between CoD and medal of honour.

Elderscrolls online might be enjoyable for alot of people, but praising it as "the next big thing" smells so much of The old republic that im seriously starting to believe im having a deja vu.

Now no one talks about TORtanic anymore besides if its used as a negative example and i think Elder scrolls online will just be another entry in the endless list of "lets try to copy WoWs success and fail with it"

In no way did I say anything that made you out to be a "hater that makes stuff up", again please read what I posted in this thread

To cut to the point, I wasn't saying it was "the next big thing". I was saying that the concept that people feel it has to either be "the next big thing" or "not worth the time" without any room in the middle is actually driving most of the problems that people have with the games industry, exacerbating the issues instead of actually doing anything about them.

And in no way did my post actually outright defend ESO, there are some points which people bring up that I disagree with there are others that I don't, furthermore there is plenty of stuff that I dislike that I'm entirely sure people either don't notice/care about. All of this is just essentially backing up my original point, if any reaction to your post that isn't "I agree with you and you're awesome, let me agree more" automatically becomes a negative response that requires you to defend something that wasn't even questioned then... that really does prove what I was saying.

Is ESO going to be "the next big thing"? What does that even mean, and why do I care about it? Because some marketing guys came up with the idea or some journalist has decided to tag it as such, because a few people I know are for or against the product and therefore I have to have an opinion either way?

I like ESO. That said I have yet to see any details about the microtransations, and I've stated before that if those microtransactions go beyond just allowing people who didn't pre-order/get the collectors edition to have access to that content then that is me done with it. However until I see those details I'm going to trust that the devs are leveraging the subscription system for all the influence it can give them to fend off exactly the kind of microtransactions that would drive me away.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

This is my impression without breaking any NDA stuff. This MMO's got legs. It has the ability to stand on them, and maybe even run. It can at least move forward, and steadily without much stumbling. Is it worth the asking price plus a sub? Maybe not, but games today are overpriced in general so we're not seeing a new trend. It plays solid enough to say it is VIABLE, but in an infantile sort of way. By that I mean its a newborn thing, and can only survive if it learns and grows. It will make mistakes, how it handles them is how it ultimately will succeed or fail.
It didn't feel like a waste of time, I wanted more. Thats the key, none of us who played the beta have seen "The End" and if there are some who know, they're not saying. The endgame is what will make or break this game, what content is offered beyond the main story. What lies at level 50 and what can we do with that character?

I'm all aboard for ESO because it feels good to play, I didn't feel like if I'd had paid for it I'd have hated myself for being suckered in like I did with Warhammer Online or RIFT or TOR. Its not a WoW copy, but it shares elements that when blended with Elder Scrolls like play fit better than I thought they would. It won't kill WoW either, only Blizzard can ultimately put down their monster, if they so choose to. Basically ESO is a game I want to succeed because I liked it better than I've liked most other ambitious games the last few years, I had fun and I don't want it to fail because of bad marketing decisions. Its not another APB, RIFT, TERA or AION, it has a familiar feel to it that Guild Wars 2 didn't give me which is why even though GW2 is a decent game it doesn't grab me. ESO has my attention, it aggro'd me not with anger but with want.

I just want to know if its follow-through is solid.

BTW: It has its weaknesses, nothing is perfect but they're not glaring enough for me to say its bad, don't play it. I'm just hoping for a scaling down of the initial payment OR the sub.

 

[SecondPrize]

In what planet would it be better to just not have John Cleese than have him in a role which has "wasted" his talent? I mean, really? Because he's playing a character in the intro zone it sucks? Is that it? That intro is better for John Cleese's voice acting, do you know why? It's because he's John Cleese. Where I to try to think of who might suit the role of an insane guide to a piece of Oblivion wearing a pot on his head I'm not going to get much farther than surviving Python members.
Also, and correct me if i'm wrong here but with a list of many skyshards for Cold Harbor in your journal and none that aren't plot related to be found there I'd imagine we will get to return there.

As far as the questing goes it is a shame you have to be in the same phase to help anyone but it appeared to me that if you both haven't done a quest there won't be any problem. You just covered the mechanics of questing itself but I thought the quests were fun themselves. Maybe it's me because I've skipped most recent MMO releases but I don't get why no one is talking about how great the questing is compared to what I thought was still the industry standard. Even the one-off side quests have a story to them to explain why you're doing what you are and some of them are pretty fun. Nobody asked me to kill 10 of anything and whenever I needed to get a quest object from mobs it was just one item that dropped swiftly. This alone was enough to get me far more hooked in the early process than any game other than The Secret World which starts with some good questing as well. I don't give a shit if your writing isn't the best for every quest, these guys are at least trying. Devs who toss out killing and collecting quests from now on can suck it.

Edit. Bonus question since Greg brought up Walkers' RPS piece. Did anyone else get the impression from reading it that he went into it looking for negatives? He failed to mention the character wearing a pot was explicitly described as insane or couldn't understand why John Cleese would play a role silly. He, as far as my recollections go from the Aldmeri starting area, straight up lied about a quest where a ship's captain asks you to find three crew members who are withing eyesight. He brought up the first freaking hallways you run down as a negative. I'm fine with opinions that differ from mine but I played the content this guy did, and he was fucking reaching. Did anyone else who did the Aldmeri starter island feel that his article wasn't honest criticism?

 

[RJ 17]

Eh, despite being an Elder Scrolls fan, I've had little to no desire at all to look into this game. I'm past the point of wanting to pay subscriptions for games. It might be fine for others, but I'm done with such nonsense. As such, take my opinion however you will.

I just think this was a bad idea from the start. If Bethesda wanted to tinker with their bug-ridden formula that's worked just fine for them with the ES games in the past, I think they should have simply started with the logical first step: try implementing a 2-4 player co-op in the next ES game and see how people like that before jumping straight into the quagmire of MMO's. Inevitably you're going to be compared to WoW, which has had just about a full decade to refine, polish, and streamline what was already the most successful MMO ever into an even more well-polished machine. For disclosure to show I'm not a WoW fanboy: I kicked my WoW addiction towards the end of Burning Crusade, after having been with it since the very beginning. Why? Because I could no longer justify to myself paying a monthly subscription to play Fantasy Dress Up in which you have to pray the gods of fate will allow that shiny new hat you've had your eye on to drop and, if it does, that you beat out everyone else that wants that shiny new hat for the rights to own it.

TES has enough of a base following to get people interested for the initial release and the fist month or two of an MMO set in TES universe. But then again, so did Old Republic with regards to the Star Wars universe, and we all know how that one turned out. I just get the feeling that there's a lot of players out there like me that just don't want to put up with paying a subscription for a game they'll likely get tired of in a month or two anyways (if history is to repeat itself from TOR as I believe it will).

 

[Shadeovblack]

It's also possible that more of the editors on The Escapist actually like MMOs more than the editors of other main outlets ...

I find this argument flawed. If 75% of strategy games released were tetris clones and I said I don't like tetris clones, would you say I didn't like strategy games? Just because one type of game is the majority doesn't mean that that is all the genre is.

 

[irishda]

If the combat in this is anything like the combat in the other Elder Scrolls games, no thanks.

 

[shintakie10]

But I haven't seen a single feature talking about Wildstar, yet I have seen plenty going on about Elder Scrolls online here at The Escapist and not just cause its the beta. You can see how people would think your coming from a influenced mindset. (Yes I do understand Wildstar still has a NDA which can explain a lack of content for it)

There is a huge difference between something being designed to be perfect and something being designed to be fun. The Call of duty series is designed to be perfect, it is not fun. This is why Call of duty comes across as bland, this is why the Elder Scrolls Online will come across as bland.

You are right about the NDA, but the real reason we haven't published a lot of Wildstar coverage is that it doesn't have the mainstream appeal that ESO does. Not that many people care about Wildstar, to be honest, while there is more interest in whether ESO can match Skyrim in appeal, etc.

But you will start to see more Wildstar coverage soon.

Greg

Really lookin forward to some Wildstar coverage. Everythin ESO all the time is gettin extremely obnoxious, especially considerin how meh the entire experience was. Meanwhile Wildstar has kept me hugely hooked since I first started the beta.

I'm absolutely certain that once major publications bother to stop talkin about the meh fest that is ESO and start talkin about Wildstar we'll start seein the hype back up to the levels it was prechristmas.

After having played both ESO and Wildstar's beta I can firmly say that Wildstar definitely has that special sauce that ESO is missin.

Edit - Unrelated note. The title for this article was really very confusing. At first glance it honestly looks like you're calling ESO a perfect MMO. Its obvious very quickly while reading the article that you aren't actually saying that, but perhaps a different title would stop any confusion.

 

[geldonyetich]

I'm guessing when they put "Crafting The Perfect MMO" as a subtitle, it was supposed to be spoken with the air of wishful thinking. I'd sure like Elder Scrolls Online to be the perfect MMO, but when the reviews start rolling in... we'll see, hmm?

 

[ERaptor]

It is just another MMO that goes by the number with nothing really unique nowadays kept for FP view and skill leveling wich was a thing back in meridians days and ultima onlines days maybe.

Everything else is so boring and stereotypical for a mmo that you feel as if you have played this game a dozen times allready.

Also the way they market the game... with a exclusive race for pre orders and the ability to nilly willy join any faction despite racial choice, subscription AND microtransactions... yeah no... nonono

That and its entire color palette seems to consist of grays and browns, all in all ill wait for it to go f2p like ALL the other big name mmos that came out in recent years.

Pretty much this. The fact that i've seen some people defend this bullcrap because its "the norm" just adds insult to injury. At first playing the game I was left with just feeling "Meh" about it. Nothing special in any way whatsoever, just mediocre Online-Skyrim. Then along came the preorder-BS, Microtransactions and those COMBINED with the fact that they want subscriptions fees for this bowl of tasteless Cornflakes, just made me feel angry that such a great IP was wasted on something like this. Now I just patiently wait for this Trainwreck to crash (Go free to play), and then eventually burn out (Like Warhammer - Age of Reckoning did not too long ago.). And nothing of value will be lost.

Looking forward to reading about Wildstar on here tough, I have higher hopes for it than TESO. BY FAR.

 

[iseko]

I wonder if there is a point to pvp? That is what I miss in most MMO's. EVE has a point to it. Territory control for resources. Most MMO's however are just a grindfest for gear. When you have the gear there is no longer any point to it. So I was wondering: what does ESO have? Is there like bonusses for controlling castles? (I mean like crafting bonusses or some such). Or does the capitol have the flags of your faction? Something? I always like it when I get the feel that fighting accomplishes something in MMORPG's. This is an important distinction -> RPG's. I also play planetside 2 and there I just like to blow shit up.

 

[PuckFuppet]

Eh.

There are bonuses for fort control, guilds get resource/crafting bonuses and can sell their wares at a fort/resource point, there are a few 4 man dungeons that you can get access to at different points in the PvP.

List goes on really. The PvP is entirely opt in though, you have to join a campaign to get any of the bonuses and within reason you have to fight in that campaign for the crafting stuff etc.

 

[porpoise hork]

After playing the beta as much as I could I can say this..

There is absolutely nothing about ESO that is revolutionary or even noteworthy about it. ESO is nothing more than a cookie cutter game copying aspects of just about every other major MMO out there. Graphically it is substandard compared other games that have been recently released. Character models are horrid, the voice acting is OK, and the story line is not bad but leaves the player at a total loss if they have no experience with the Elder Scrolls universe. The quests are extremely buggy, and on multiple occasions I or my friends would go to where the map says to go for a quest item and it wasn't there. We found the person we were to talk to in order to progress the quest chain on the opposite side of the island from where the map told us to go. Had we not been over there for another quest and just happened to see the guy standing there with the icon over his head we never would have been able to finish that chain. Many are completely broken rendering them almost impossible to complete, and at this stage the starter quests should be 100%. Many of the starter quests are just plain tedious and forget trying to run as a group in this game as they don't have much if any joint quests. More often than not people in my group would phase to another instance on so many quests that it was the same as running solo, giving the player a sense that they really want you out there all alone instead of having fun with friends.

The entire experience of the game is mediocre at best, while it looks OK there is not one single about it that warrants the $60.00 price tag, much less the additional $15.00 a month to continue playing it. Save your money for something better.