The Escapist Diamond Jubilee 2012 Thread

[wooty]

I'll probably head to the boozer, toast a few drinks to her majesty and then head home.

 

[doggy go 7]

And British Prime Ministers are innocent of this... how exactly? The presidential system doesn't make you evil you know. If you think the fact that they have presidential systems is the problem you're incredibly naive.

Yeah but it helped us avoid President Blair.

Because the president of england and the Prime Minister of england would be completely different things. Obviously.

Hell, if we got rid of the queen (which we won't), the leader would probably still be called the Prime Minister. Either way, the power that person would have would be exactly the same.

Yes, since one would be a political leader and the other the head of state.

The real power, i.e. running the country. the queen has no real power, and is currently just a very special, and uncontrevercail, diplomat.

 

[Colour Scientist]

I fail to see the need to celebrate and old woman who does nothing but cut ribbons, shake hands, get photos taken and refuse pints of Guinness.

Seriously, what's the point of the Royal Family other than "be the Royal Family"?

She's so cutesy, how can you think ill of her?

Money and tradition, really. Who doesn't enjoy a bit of pomp and ceremony?

 

[Lord Garnaat]

I'll be trying to find a televised version of the celebrations, due to the fact that I live a few thousand miles away from the UK. I can't wait to see it though; I'm a huge supporter of the monarchy so I'll be sure to pay attention.

God save the Queen, and all that!

 

[Evilpigeon]

Blinked and missed it so far. Not seen a single flag in York yet. 4 day weekend is nice though. That said, it's interesting to see all the people objecting to a monarchy: Why does it matter, we profit from having a royal family and symbolic power does no harm. They don't get in my way and I have no reason to begrudge them their status it's possible for something to be a benefit, no matter how or where it originated from so why get bogged down in irrelevant semantics. I mean what, are we somehow less 'free' than other countries because we elect the people who run the country but not the head of state?

 

[DeepComet5581]

Shits given = 0. I don't even get extra time off, so everyone else is having fun while I'm not, in fact it just makes my workload even higher because there's more people off work to come into my workplace.

There may be some value in the monarchy in that they make a good tourist attraction, whether that offsets the money they get from taxpayers every year IDK.

Indeed.

Everyone also puts bunting indoors so I keep walking into it.

Stupid customers...

OT: The Royal Family are an institution (They even have branded merchandise and products). This makes them more polarising than if they were just a family, as one's opinion isn't just on them, but also on what they represent and stand for in one's eyes.

Take Wills and Harry. They're young lads acting like... young lads. While the Queen and Prince attend formal functions and go about the Jubilee tour, William is touring the Caribbean, running with Usain Bolt and generally being a "Man of the People". I think these two will rekindle interest in the Royal Family, as hopefully they can begin to portray them as a bit more modern than we would like to think.

 

[JoJo]

Out of the interest how do you someone randomly walking down the street wearing a flag is a BNP supporter? I doubt most of them wear BNP badges or BNP t-shirts. Almost every house in my road has put out British flags for this weekend and I can assure you most of us aren't BNP (usually Conservative or Lib dem).

Depends where you live, I usually see them because I live in a very multi-cultural city (Milton Keynes)... Here, they are lined up on the high street swearing at a procession of Sikhs as they enter a temple or counter protesting some muslim cause. Don't get me wrong, I hate the BNP too and I don't like seeing them spout there bullshit wearing the nation's colours as a symbol but they do. And it taints it for everyone else.

Well if they're part of a protest then yes that's clear but just walking down the street, no reason to attach that blame without further evidence. I think it's important that everyone in this country takes pride in our symbols so they don't end up the sole domain of unsavoury political groups.

.

Also, Prince Philip is awesome!

I second this point, I often wonder whether he says those things without thinking about it or if he's a clever troll, not that it matters ;-)

 

[Patrick Buck]

I'm going to celebrate by posting this everywhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtKJCIeozQ8&feature=g-u-u

 

[Plinglebob]

Also, Prince Philip is awesome!

I second this point, I often wonder whether he says those things without thinking about it or if he's a clever troll, not that it matters ;-)

I've always assumed he was a very good troll who does it to try and lighten the mood a bit either for his own amusement or for the Queens benefit. I know that if I every had to walk down a receiving line of 30+ people I'd welcome someone making a joke, insulting or not.

 

[Raven's Nest]

Well if they're part of a protest then yes that's clear but just walking down the street, no reason to attach that blame without further evidence. I think it's important that everyone in this country takes pride in our symbols so they don't end up the sole domain of unsavoury political groups.

Well I did say the only ones I do see wearing union jacks happen to be BNP supporters. People don't very often wear those colours at all. Hence my feelings of association with the BNP.

I just have no national pride at all. I wasn't a part of what makes Britain "Great", I don't feel like it is something I can or should identify with. In the worst case, it makes people view other countries as inferior or somehow less deserving of respect. When I look at the map of the Earth, I see land masses not country borders.

If we happen to have a Queen then so be it. I don't really care either way and the family are at least worth their cost. I'll celebrate that we happen to have a monarch reign for 60 years who wasn't an asshat to the country but that's as far as it goes. It's got nothing to do with rebelliousness or poliitcal inclination.

 

[Catfood220]

I could not care less about the Royal Family or anything that they do. We had all this crap last year when those 2 cretins got married and now we have to put up with this crap because of some old woman.

The thing that really gets to me is the fact that I'm supposed to care and I can't bring myself to give a shit about these over privilaged people because of the position that they had the good fortune to be born into and yet I'm expected to care.

Thankfully this will all be over and done with soon enough and then its Download Festival and Euro 2012.

 

[miketehmage]

Any excuse to party, really.

Though where I live in Scotland there seems to be absolutely fuck all happening.


We don't care, you see. Infact we mostly resent paying tax to royalty I think. Though I don't want to generalise too much. Maybe its just me.

 

[Yankeedoodles]

To all the anti-royalists in this thread, may this video help explain how very wrong you are. Oh so very, very wrong.
<youtube=bhyYgnhhKFw>

Especially you.

You should see this too.

Oh and you.

I just saw that video the other day and was so creeped out and angered by it that I actually responded to it. I was actually thinking of making an entirely new thread on the Escapist just to discuss it so thanks for bringing it up.

The thing that creeped me out was that the narrator was talking about how great a monarchy is while speaking in a General American dialect. The idea that a fellow countryman could come to the conclusion that a monarchy is a good thing left me feeling queasy. There are some truly splendid things about Britain and (and there are plenty of problems with the American Republic these days) but I just can't see how anyone can rationally conclude that a monarchy is a good thing.

I was angered because the guy is plain wrong. I can buy the argument that the monarchy isn't a drain on the British economy but not for the reasons he makes: Parliament is making oodles of money off the rents of royal land? Well seize the property and compensate the Windsors and I'm sure they'll have even more revenues over the years to come. They boost tourism by "sprinkling magical fairy dust on everything"? I don't see it. Americans and other English speakers make Britain their first European stop because of how similar it is to what they're used to (similar language, culture, etc.). You're the gateway drug/kiddie pool of Europe if you will. I can't speak for everyone but I'd feel much better about spending my money in the land of my ancestors knowing that at least some of it weren't going into the hands of a family which retains some democracy subverting powers (like the ability to dismiss MPs) and whose legitimacy comes from the fact that either my ancient ancestors choose their ancient ancestor to lead them or, (far more likely) their ancient ancestor forced my ancient ancestors to submit to them.

My apologies to the OP for raining on his parade but that video and the constant reporting on the monarchy in this country have really gotten to me on both an intellectual and a (surprisingly) emotional level. I'm sure that there are positives. The monarchy seems to play an important role in a lot of Britons feeling of 'Britishness'.

 

[Hoplon]

The real power, i.e. running the country. the queen has no real power, and is currently just a very special, and uncontroversial, diplomat.

Most Heads of State don't have any real power. She actually has more than most since she is the holder of a veto in much the same way the President of the USA is but it is unprecedented for her use it.

Anyway, it is the exception rather than the rule for the head of state to hold power, they tend to be a diplomatic personage as you mention.

 

[=y]

60 years huh? Well I guess this is good news. As a Canadian I feel mostly indifferent about the royalty although I do approve of their work in the charity field. I just lack that connection you Brits seem to have with the family but whatever. If I can have an excuse to treat myself to some British Fish and Chips than I will!

 

[Knusper]

Snip

I hope you were expecting all this Republican angst when you posted that, because here's mine.

Firstly, I would like to say that even if we do make umpteen millions off the monarchy no amount of money should be able to pay for the right that I have to stand for the highest office in government be taken away from me. She's not even a good head of state, if we had a democratic one he/she could make actual important visits (ok, the Queen makes a few, but mostly she just travels the Commonwealth) to places to make trade agreements etc. rather than hand these powers to the PM, what are called prerogative powers which are illiberal themselves.

Furthermore, she doesn't even represent the feelings of the people with what little power she has. Just the other week she had the King of Bahrain and that corrupt chap from somewhere-in-Africa round for tea, whereas if we had a democratically elected head of state, he/she would at least to an extent be more representative of the wishes of the people, because of course he/she would have been voted in by them. Although you might make the point that the Queen isn't evil and isn't overtly propping up dictatorships there is nothing constitutionally that stops her from doing so.

Now I would like to address the issues raised in the video itself regarding the money. Firstly, that cost doesn't take into account things like security and costs of visits on local councils. The Guardian (I know probably biased, if you're really bothered I can check the BBC) quotes her actual cost at £150 million per year http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/jun/29/royalaccountsareallspin. Also, even if that £40 million was right, I'm fairly sure she can carry out her job equally well (or badly) on a fraction of that. For example, she doesn't have to spend £400,000 on garden parties each year to be a good head of state.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that video seemed to be saying that if Parliament took away her civil funding, then the Queen would take away the rent from her land (btw I refuse to accept that figure can be that high until I see a reliable source). However, Parliament is sovereign. If they voted to pass a law saying the Queen no longer gets all her funding and we get to keep the rent, she cannot say no, even when it comes to royal assent because Parliament holds de jeure sovereignty in the land i.e. what they say goes.

Finally, I dispute the credibility of that video when it claims it knows how much of the tourist industry is created by the monarchy, and who's to say it wouldn't stay when the monarchy are gone? The video says that France isn't as popular as us because we have a monarchy for realz, but in reality, France gets almost 3 TIMES the amount of tourists we do per year, and our GDP per capita is higher http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_Rankings. Furthermore, only 3 of the top 10 tourist attractions have anything to do with the monarchy http://news.icm.ac.uk/business/uk%E2%80%99s-top-ten-tourist-attractions/3381/ and non one even pays to go into Buckingham Palace, they just look at it from the outside.

So any way, thus ends the lecture of the dedicated republican. Get rid of the monarchy and give the money we get from it to the true cornerstones of society - teachers, nurses, doctors etc.

 

[OmniscientOstrich]

I will be diligently ignoring it and carrying on as I normally would. Not a fan of the royal of family if you haven't already guessed.

 

[EeveeElectro]

The best thing is time and a half pay! Woohoo.

I probably won't be doing anything. I'm not a huge fan of the royal family, we probably still shouldn't be wasting as much money on them a year. It doesn't make my blood boil but I'm a bit meh on them.
Oh wells, the Queen seems pretty cool.
I probably won't be doing anything, might be having a street party with lots of booze though >.>

 

[Ironside]

I will be celebrating by revising for my exams which are the day after the bank holiday - huzzah! I'll still be flying my flag though and maybe watching some of the celebrations.

The thing that creeped me out was that the narrator was talking about how great a monarchy is while speaking in a General American dialect. The idea that a fellow countryman could come to the conclusion that a monarchy is a good thing left me feeling queasy. There are some truly splendid things about Britain and (and there are plenty of problems with the American Republic these days) but I just can't see how anyone can rationally conclude that a monarchy is a good thing.

I was angered because the guy is plain wrong. I can buy the argument that the monarchy isn't a drain on the British economy but not for the reasons he makes: Parliament is making oodles of money off the rents of royal land? Well seize the property and compensate the Windsors and I'm sure they'll have even more revenues over the years to come.

Well for one thing they are basically free and virtually no tax money is given to them. In addition to that they are relatively cheap as a head of state - France's last head of state cost twice as much per year as the Queen does. They are also trained their entire life to fulfill the role of head of state and unless they have some kind of debilitating mental illness (in which case they'd be removed from the line of succession) they should be the best person for the job. They are also above party politics and so, unlike the politicans they will do what is best for the country rather than what is best for a political party - she also represents the entire country rather than 33% of it like most PM's do. Monarchies also tend to be the most stable form of government and the royal family has created and supports dozens of different charities. And i would rather have a monarch representing my country abroad then another career politician who more than likely doesn't have the best interests of their country at heart. I personally can't understand why anyone would want to live in a republic - both France and the US are a mess politically at the moment - I would much rather live in a country that actually has a working system.

And as for your second point - we don't live in a communist country thats why they don't just seize all their land. I don't want to live in a country where the government just randomly starts seizing wealthy peoples land.

 

[JoJo]

Well if they're part of a protest then yes that's clear but just walking down the street, no reason to attach that blame without further evidence. I think it's important that everyone in this country takes pride in our symbols so they don't end up the sole domain of unsavoury political groups.

Well I did say the only ones I do see wearing union jacks happen to be BNP supporters. People don't very often wear those colours at all. Hence my feelings of association with the BNP.

I just have no national pride at all. I wasn't a part of what makes Britain "Great", I don't feel like it is something I can or should identify with. In the worst case, it makes people view other countries as inferior or somehow less deserving of respect. When I look at the map of the Earth, I see land masses not country borders.

If we happen to have a Queen then so be it. I don't really care either way and the family are at least worth their cost. I'll celebrate that we happen to have a monarch reign for 60 years who wasn't an asshat to the country but that's as far as it goes. It's got nothing to do with rebelliousness or poliitcal inclination.

Honestly though, a lot of countries are inferior to the UK: not their people but their political systems and economies. I see nothing wrong with being proud of that fact that we're lucky enough to live in a rich stable democracy, something which is really worth protecting.

My apologies to the OP for raining on his parade but that video and the constant reporting on the monarchy in this country have really gotten to me on both an intellectual and a (surprisingly) emotional level. I'm sure that there are positives. The monarchy seems to play an important role in a lot of Britons feeling of 'Britishness'.

Hey, don't worry about it, I said in the OP that republicans are welcome in this thread too

From my own perspective, other than tradition the reason I support a monarchy is that I don't believe that a head of state should be political and therefore hereditary selection is an effective method of selecting a random person to be monarch, being brought up from birth for that position means that they're generally well trained for it. In the last one hundred and fifty years all our monarchs have been good at their role with the exception of Edward VIII, who to his credit had the sense to abdicate after less than a year in favour of his younger brother. I can understand though why it would seem odd in a country where you haven't had that system for a couple of hundred years.