The Escapist users and Rape

[zehydra]

I totally agree with OP's post. In general, I'm pretty much against drinking in all cases.

 

[ph0b0s123]

Sweet jesus, fellow escapists.

Wow, not all the peoples of the internet have the same opinion on issues as you do.....

Also the thought process of 'I am fed up of all these threads, so I am going to create another one'. Price-less.

 

[Radelaide]

No means no; no matter if you're sober, drunk, high, whatever.

True. The issue here however, is whether yes means yes when you're drunk. Personally, I feel that if you're going to do something that impairs your judgement willfully, then you are responsible for whatever you do while your judgement is impaired. If I get high and decide to rob a bank, I'm still going to be charged with bank robbery as if I was sober, likewise, I believe that if you get drunk of your owwn free will, any actions you take will drunk should be seen as just as valid as when you were sober.

You are *never* responsible for your own rape. To suggest such a thing is grotesque. If you say "yes" and then an hour later say "no", you can't be held to your original statement.

 

[Dramerc]

Rape is Rape an a true punishment must be enforced hopefully torture until the end of days
Drunk or not it is rape so punishment is due

 

[I-Protest-I]

The lesson here is DON'T HAVE SEX WITH DRUNK PEOPLE UNLESS THEY CONSENT BEFORE THEY'RE DRUNK! If you find yourself constantly waking up in strange beds after getting drunk, STOP DRINKING! No one is saying that people should be running around blitzed all the time telling people they'll have sex with them without realizing there are consequences for those actions. Let's face it Escapist, drunk sex isn't even that awesome anyways.

^^this, people should not having sex with another person if their uncertain if the other person is drunk or not.

Spoken like someone who can get laid without alcohol influencing the other party.

O.T. I'm just glad the U.K. don't cry on and on like you yanks about this shit.

 

[DazBurger]

No means no; no matter if you're sober, drunk, high, whatever.

True. The issue here however, is whether yes means yes when you're drunk. Personally, I feel that if you're going to do something that impairs your judgement willfully, then you are responsible for whatever you do while your judgement is impaired. If I get high and decide to rob a bank, I'm still going to be charged with bank robbery as if I was sober, likewise, I believe that if you get drunk of your owwn free will, any actions you take will drunk should be seen as just as valid as when you were sober.

You are *never* responsible for your own rape. To suggest such a thing is grotesque. If you say "yes" and then an hour later say "no", you can't be held to your original statement.

But what if that hour later is AFTER sex?

Is it then rape?

 

[LiquidSolstice]

The most irritating goddamn thing about this is femenists see "you can reduce the risk of ____ by doing the following ____" and instead see "OMG WHAT A DICK HE'S BLAMING WOMEN FOR ______ SEXIST PIG!!!!111one".

 

[LiquidSolstice]

No means no; no matter if you're sober, drunk, high, whatever.

True. The issue here however, is whether yes means yes when you're drunk. Personally, I feel that if you're going to do something that impairs your judgement willfully, then you are responsible for whatever you do while your judgement is impaired. If I get high and decide to rob a bank, I'm still going to be charged with bank robbery as if I was sober, likewise, I believe that if you get drunk of your owwn free will, any actions you take will drunk should be seen as just as valid as when you were sober.

You are *never* responsible for your own rape. To suggest such a thing is grotesque. If you say "yes" and then an hour later say "no", you can't be held to your original statement.

Erm, yes you can be held to your original statement. "yes" gives consent for sex. "no" an hour later after the sex has occurred, that's called not fucking taking responsibility for your actions.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

If a person is drunk then he is unable to gauge the drunkenness of another one therefore it COULD provide justification, being too drunk to be able to tell your partner is too drunk to legally consent to sex isn't impossible or anything.


Also, if two people are drunk why is it always the guy who is raping the girl? Why not the other way around or at least both of them?


That's what's sexist and unfair. If a guy gets an STD or something and tries to get a girl he had sex with while drunk and now regrets charged for raping him he'll get laughed out of the courts...so women should be equally as much laughed out of the courts when these other factors are the same.




As for the "lawmaker" who would read this thread, I'm sure he must have been taught in the 7+ years of studying that laymen do not bother with strict legal definitions of their actions.

My problem is is that if I get drunk on wine I tend to jump on the nearest male thing in the vicinity, I can hardly blame them for that in the morning can I. xD

I do try not to drink wine...but it's so tasty. :<

I have a barrel of home-brewed red wine at my place in Greece...and I can attest to both it's flavor and jump-causing characteristics. One time my dog chewed the tap and the whole barrel spilled in the balcony, there were about 4 inches of wine on the floor and she got so drunk that she was jumping around and barking at the floor for no reason .

 

[sindremaster]

Rape is Rape an a true punishment must be enforced hopefully torture until the end of days
Drunk or not it is rape so punishment is due

I think you misunderstood the point of this thread, unless you're saying it's rape to sleep with sober women who says yes.

 

[Jonluw]

Yeah, never have sex with drunk people ever unless they explicitly consent to it before they start drinking.
Lol, okay. All bars and nightclubs will be closing now, if you don't mind.

If you enjoyed it while it was going on, but regret it afterwards, it's not rape. End of story.

 

[anthony87]

To quote another Escapist whose name escapes me:
"There's enough high horses here to make a small cavalry charge"

If a girl is able to walk up to me, talk to me and basically initiate having sex then as far as I'm concerned that would be consent given. If she wakes up the next morning regretting what she had done, that doesn't make me a rapist. It makes the girl someone who shouldn't drink if she can't deal with the consequences of what she has done/will do.

 

[Phasmal]

I don't bother entering into these kinds of discussions on this site anymore. My best advice is to steer clear of them.

For the sake of your own mental well-being.

It's like pissing against the wind.

This.

The gaming community is not the best place to have these discussions.

 

[spartan231490]

Legally, you are correct, in many places but not all.

Morally, and logically, you are incorrect. Hell, your agreement with the first point completely invalidates what you have to say about the other two. Drunkenness doesn't remove responsibility for any other decision you make. If you drive, it's your fault. If you get in a fight and hurt/kill someone it's your fault. If you buy something off a stupid infomercial, you don't get your money back. So why do people insist on thinking that you are incapable of agreeing to sex. It's the single most illogical thing I've ever heard people say, and with all the stupid crap that people spout at the world, that's one fuck of an accomplishment.

Also, to claim that this is rape is degrading to all victims of real rape. To equate getting drunk and having sex in any way to having someone grab you in an alley and force you at gunpoint is like telling every single person who has ever been raped that what happened to them is no worse than having sex after a few shots. This is such an inconceivable leap of logic that no rational human being can support it.

To summarize, if you get drunk, have sex, and regret it. You might be able to get the other person charged with rape, but in no moral or logical examination did they rape you, and frankly you are a human being equivalent of pond scum, and I hope you get hit by a bus.

 

[MassiveGeek]

Rape is having sex with a person against their will, sometimes using means like force to do it as well. Correct?

Then I'd have to say that if you made the concious decision to get so pissed that you'd give consent to a stranger, that is not rape, because frankly, you've given consent. Yes, you're imparied of proper cognitive thinking, but you're the one who put yourself in that position and you should take some responsibility for yourself.
Of course I don't approve of "taking advantage" of people when they're not thinking clearly, but we can't excuse people from their actions and their actual concious decisions.

Most likely the dude/gal who propositioned it in the first place was also drunk, so with this logic both parts would be able to press rape charges. It's just a clusterfuck.

 

[orangeban]

having someone grab you in an alley and force you at gunpoint

Tell me, do you realise that most rape is commited by someone the victim knows? A common rape scenario goes like this, boy/girlfriend asks victim for sex, victim says no, boy/girlfriend does has sex anyway.

The idea that rape involves guns, alleys and masked strangers jumping out of bushes is not only false, it's also ridiculous and (to paraphrase you) degrading to victims of rape that didn't involve those things.

 

[peruvianskys]

The only thing I really want to say here is that I'm tired of people pulling out the old "Us poor guys get accused of rape all the time even though they totally wanted it" pity plea. I guarantee you that for ever "false accusation" of rape, there about about a dozen real rapes that don't even get reported, much less lead to a conviction.

Bottom line is, your sex life should not be based around how close you can get to rape before it's actually rape. Show some respect and compassion, Jesus Christ. If you think it's not a good idea to bang a girl who can hardly stand up, then just don't do it; don't try and figure out how you can twist the situation to take the blame off you for being an opportunistic dick.

 

[spartan231490]

having someone grab you in an alley and force you at gunpoint

Tell me, do you realise that most rape is commited by someone the victim knows? A common rape scenario goes like this, boy/girlfriend asks victim for sex, victim says no, boy/girlfriend does has sex anyway.

The idea that rape involves guns, alleys and masked strangers jumping out of bushes is not only false, it's also ridiculous and (to paraphrase you) degrading to victims of rape that didn't involve those things.

Just because it's someone you know, doesn't mean it doesn't involve some kind of weapon or physical force. The important part is the physical force and the feeling of helplessness, not the setting.

 

[jonnosferatu]

Sweet jesus, fellow escapists. I thought your views on kids were bad enough, but good god, if any sort of legal counsel or law enforcement official saw any of the two popular threads on what's considered rape or not, they'd probably vomit in rage.

[link]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.334217-Poll-Is-it-rape-if-you-have-consensual-sex-with-a-willfully-intoxicated-person[/link]

[link]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.334108-So-according-to-some-feminists-this-anti-rape-ad-campaign-is-sexist[/link]

To sum up the majority's feelings:
-Drunk people are accountable for their actions
-If someone consented while intoxicated that means they are willful, and, if they didn't mean it, then they shouldn't have gotten drunk
-If both parties are drunk then it can't be rape because neither had a sound mental state, so no one can be blamed

First point, this one is true. Intoxication has never been a defense ever. That goes for both parties, however, and one party will usually be seen as just "the one who got drunk" while the other would be "the one who took advantage of the other". It doesn't matter if the predator was drunk, then they just drunkenly took advantage of someone.

Second, the key word here is "willful". Legally, consent is seen as a contract between two people. Consent doesn't even have to be verbally expressed. It can be implied if one of the party's actions can be construed as willful agreement. But there's that word willful again. Willful implies a mental ability to weigh the consequences of an agreement. YOU CANNOT ENTER INTO AGREEMENTS (legally) WITH PEOPLE OF AN IMPAIRED MENTAL STATE BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT SEEN BY THE LAW AS BEING "WILLFUL". I really can't stress that enough. If you go to the judge and say, "It's ok, she said yes." He's gonna reply with "Did she know that? And did she know what she said yes to? Since she's charging you with rape, I'm gonna assume the answer to both of those is no."

Finally, if both parties are drunk, rape still has occurred. We've already established that drunk people are still responsible for their actions, but it's now much harder to tell which is the perpetrator. Generally, the rapist in situations of unlawful consent would be whoever initiated sexual contact, and it's now impossible to tell who is who without further evidence. One of the parties could technically bring charges against the other, but the defense will always be, "I couldn't have consented either."

The lesson here is DON'T HAVE SEX WITH DRUNK PEOPLE UNLESS THEY CONSENT BEFORE THEY'RE DRUNK! If you find yourself constantly waking up in strange beds after getting drunk, STOP DRINKING! No one is saying that people should be running around blitzed all the time telling people they'll have sex with them without realizing there are consequences for those actions. Let's face it Escapist, drunk sex isn't even that awesome anyways.

I hope you see the futility in making a relatively feministic point on a site primarily targeted at a demographic notorious for its subtle but pervasive misogyny.

I support this thread, but as many have previously said, you're pissing against the wind here.

 

[FernandoV]

Hey, if regretting having sex with a person while you were drunk is rape then can guys claim rape when they have sex with an ugly girl while drunk?