The existence of ghosts

[BurnoutPriest]

This topic has been bothering me for quite a while now. When asked what my philosophy club would like to discuss the overwhelming answer was "Ghosts!" Lack of any relation to philosophy aside, I was shocked by this prevalent belief. I just wanted to share a few of my own ideas in this regard with my fellow Escapists.

First, I would like to ask you, Can ghosts walk through walls?

To anyone who answered yes, I regret to inform you that this is impossible. Think about walking for a second. Walking is the utilization of friction between matter. You need matter to "walk." We also know that matter does not faze through solid objects at will. Anyone who believes ghosts can somehow "materialize" also has a huge problem to face. Remember E=mc^2? The energy required to create enough atoms for just a human's foot would be so vast nuclear sensors all over the world would be screaming alarms.

Very well, I ghost enthusiast may say, ghosts are not matter. They don't "walk" in any sense. My rebuttal: Now tell me, how can we see them? Our eyes function by perceiving light that is reflected off matter. How can we hear a ghost? Sound also relies upon matter. I don't recall "hearing" electromagnetic radiation, gravity, or magnetism.

Another approach may be to say they are souls or spirits in no way connected to this world. To bring a little philosophy into this, this spiritual dualism is full of holes. How can a world (spiritual) that is so diametrically opposed to the physical world interact with the physical?

Finally, I have a theory for why a belief in ghosts would even exist. Ghosts can represent or reaffirm an idea that we survive death, that we are greater than death. This obviously appeals to many people, but it isn't the main reason. I believe ghosts are nothing more than our tendency to anthropomorphize objects run wild. Let me put it this way: in 1000 cases of mistaken identification I bet 999 would be mistaking an inanimate object for something that is alive. It is not common for anyone to mistake a living object for an inanimate one. This would be very useful in the early days of our species where it would be better to mistake a pile of rocks for a predator than vice-versa.

To counter those who have "seen" ghosts or have "proof" I point to the tendency of humans to anthropomorphize and the realization that our senses are not absolute; they are prone to mistake. Add a scared or hysteric mind and you have a ghost sighting. Besides all of this, I highly doubt every report of ghosts is altruistic or for the sake of spreading the truth. Ghosts and hauntings can be quite profitable.

[/rant]

Anyway, that's my long winded opinion, feel free to add your own.

 

[Easykill]

Ghosts are supposed to be a form of energy. The way in which we would sense them; if we could, would be through some as of yet undocumented sixth sense, or through the interference of our senses as the energy anomaly affects our brain. That said; I don't believe in them, myself.

 

[Trace2010]

It is said that feline senses can detect the presence of abnormal spiritual energies. Anyhow, it would definitely be a relieving feeling if ghosts could be disproven once and for all...but impossible. I for one, do believe that they exist- and lay outside the acceptable boundaries of science.

 

[Imitation Saccharin]

Ghosts are supposed to be a form of energy.

What form?

 

[BurnoutPriest]

The problem I see with that is the ambiguity of "a form of energy." To anyone who believes such an energy definition: Define this energy. Besides that if someone were to believe in a sixth sense all the "evidence" for ghosts would be thrown out since cameras don't have a six sense.

EDIT: Tracy, believing there is some substance completely outside of science still begs the philosophical question of how can this substance and the physical possibly interact?

 

[Hunde Des Krieg]

I don't want to go either way on this, if half the shit they show on Ghost Hunters is legit then I'm inclined to believe, but even if it is fake it is still damn entertaining. Like the episode where they investigate the house on the old property of the Sharon Tate murders and the ghosts communicate through the little electrical field sensing bugger. That shit was cra-zy!

 

[Jaythulhu]

Ever had your spine tingle or your skin go cold for no particular reason? That's the most accepted form of indication of a spirit moving around the area.

That said, there's been something (not necessarily a ghost per se) that's been occupying my house for a number of years now, and I've had many encounters with out of the ordinary things happening around here.

 

[xitel]

Well, seeing as how the existence of ghosts assumes the existence of a yet-to-be proven pseudo-matter called "ectoplasm", I refuse to believe that ghosts exist. The so-called "ghost experts" you see around all look like idiots, so that doesn't help their case at all.

 

[Jaythulhu]

Ectoplasm? Nah. Take a look at harmony and ressonance theory. It's a fascinating line of thought.

 

[BurnoutPriest]

You're going to have to help me out with this one, I can't find anything on harmony or resonance theory supporting the existence of ghosts.

 

[jim_doki]

What we are talking about is a new kind of energy. this would probably best be described as Sentient or concious energy, capable of changing it's wavelenghth, frequency and amplitude so that it can at various times be seen and pass through or lift various objects

facinating, but not really possible as far as i can see

then again im not a physisist

 

[Jharry5]

The idea of ghosts as beings of energy is quite interesting, but i cant see it being true as the established scientific theories on that sort of thing.

I don't believe in them myself, but it would be nice to think they did exist.
That said, those TV programmes where they hunt ghosts are faked; the happenings can be rationally explained using science.

 

[MONTGOMERYWOODRUFF69]

Having seen one myself I have to say that yes they do exist. I had moved into a 120 year old house and after a few days I kept seeing motion out of the corner of my eye, but when I would look nothing would be there. Shortly after that I got a good look. It was a little boy perhaps 3 or 4 years of age, he was peeking around the corner of the door to my daughter's room. Sometime he actually walked past the door, I'd go look,nothing. At that point I thought my family would have me commited if I mentioned what I'd been seeing so I kept it to myself until we had moved from that house and I over heard my kids talking to my wife about the little boy. It turns out they had seen him as well, he never did anything harmful, nor did I ever feel threated by him. Ghosts do exist you better belive it.

 

[JMeganSnow]

It is said that feline senses can detect the presence of abnormal spiritual energies.

Who says this, and how do they know?

Anyhow, it would definitely be a relieving feeling if ghosts could be disproven once and for all...but impossible.

Yes. It is impossible--LOGICALLY impossible--to disprove the existence of something, because proof requires demonstration of what logically follows from something else. The non-existence of something is *nothing*--and you cannot have a *something* that logically follows from *nothing*.

I for one, do believe that they exist- and lay outside the acceptable boundaries of science.

And I believe that we are all controlled by the undetectable mind-rays of undetectable gremlins living on Venus. Has the same validity.

 

[JMeganSnow]

Having seen one myself I have to say that yes they do exist. I had moved into a 120 year old house and after a few days I kept seeing motion out of the corner of my eye, but when I would look nothing would be there. Shortly after that I got a good look. It was a little boy perhaps 3 or 4 years of age, he was peeking around the corner of the door to my daughter's room. Sometime he actually walked past the door, I'd go look,nothing.

How do you get from "I saw a small boy" to "it was definitely a ghost" to "therefore ghosts exist"? There are some links missing in this chain, here.

Not to belittle your experience, which probably creeped you out, but eyewitness accounts are notoriously inaccurate even in simple matters such as someone witnessing a robbery. (You will literally get cases where 15 minutes later six witnesses cannot agree on whether the robber had a gun or not.) People are too suggestible and memory is too mutable.

I can remember in great detail things that never happened because my grandparents have told me some stories a bit too often.

 

[Dealin Burgers]

I would thoroughly enjoy my house being haunted, but I cannot honestly say I believe in them.

 

[Dele]

First, I would like to ask you, Can ghosts walk through walls?

To anyone who answered yes, I regret to inform you that this is impossible. Think about walking for a second. Walking is the utilization of friction between matter. You need matter to "walk." We also know that matter does not faze through solid objects at will. Anyone who believes ghosts can somehow "materialize" also has a huge problem to face. Remember E=mc^2? The energy required to create enough atoms for just a human's foot would be so vast nuclear sensors all over the world would be screaming alarms.

You assume that matters dont faze through solid objects and that E=mc^2. Since it is impossible to prove that both sentences work 100% of the time (we just assume they do) the whole "There are no ghosts and I can prove it" falls apart. It's just like trying to prove that God(s) dont exist but with less angry people.

 

[Knight Templar]

Good rant with good points, however it needs us to understand everything about our world for it to work. Problem: We don't.

You can't explain the unexplainable or reason with concepts like ghosts.

Anyway one small point, atoms pass though each other and the only reason we don't is a magnetic field. So somewhere in that fact is the chance to walk through walls.

 

[Phillosophic]

Ever had your spine tingle or your skin go cold for no particular reason? That's the most accepted form of indication of a spirit moving around the area.

That said, there's been something (not necessarily a ghost per se) that's been occupying my house for a number of years now, and I've had many encounters with out of the ordinary things happening around here.

I think what you are describing is something interfering with the electro-magnetic field that surrounds your body. What some people (mainly pratitioners of certain Martial Arts) might refer to as Chi. I have read in plenty of books, by renound Martial Artists that a lot of things can disrupt it, none of them in the least bit supernatural. Either that or you are sitting in a draught. Ghosts are a way of scaring children, like vampires, werewolves & Sesame Street.

 

[Jaythulhu]

Electro-magnetic distortion and leftover ressonance are what's classified as "ghosts". Those are the side effects of us moving through a "contaminated" spot, so to speak. Takes some pretty heavy distortion to etch something that lasts longer than a few months though.

All that said, it takes something a little bit odd to switch on a tv that's not plugged in.