The expedition in Dragon Age 2

[Chrissyluky]

I don't think this has been brought up yet but it still drives me nuts. In Dragon Age 2 you are offered Forced to go onto an expedition but you have to pay 50 gold, what for? Nothing, it is never explained why they need 50 pieces of gold other than to force you to dredge through all of the side quests and that they need you to invest. Now normally this wouldn't bother me but there is never even any visual cues to show you what that money was spent on, the only armed guards that go down into the deep roads with you are you and your party. The only person who could possibly cost money is the trader that goes down with you. You could argue it's for supplies but I really doubt it costs 150g for a few weeks of food(assuming both dwarves paid the same amount).
The only conclusion I can come to is Bartrand and Varric spent the money on a pair of very brave floozies.

This is pretty much just a dragon age 2 complaint thread now.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

I think its implied that you need to throw in as part of an investment. Why should they be spending all of their money and its THEIR find, so why should they cut you in? Its an investment to make you a partner and such, a cut of their profits.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

I think its implied that you need to invest in their expedition to become a partner in it and such, gain a portion of their profits. Since the location is their find, they have no reason to cut you in simply for coming along to help. They require an investment from you. Its sort of a protection for them.
Dwarves are greedy!
-EDIT-
Arghh...double post. It looked like it didn't go through the first time.

 

[Simon Pettersson]

No there are actually some other guards that go with you to the deep roads.

And I think they needed the money because they didn´t have that much themselves, that was one of the reasons they would go down to the deep roads to get rich.

 

[Anah'ya]

hasn't paid attention

I think its implied that you need to throw in as part of an investment. Why should they be spending all of their money and its THEIR find, so why should they cut you in? Its an investment to make you a partner and such, a cut of their profits.

It is not just implied.

"We don't need another guard, what we need is a partner."

Bartrand is unable to scrape together the money that he needs to get the expedition running; and I would assume that this is quite the sum that he would need. Guards. Rations. Supplies (weapons/transport/comfort). All of that needs to be paid for, and the brothers are lacking it. Please keep in mind that this is not just a quick jaunt down the next hole in the ground. The Expedition took weeks.

You are not just there to trudge along, you are a partner in their business venture and entitled to a fair share of the profit made from the expedition.

... alot more likely than the usual approach to "quests" like that as a simple hireling or just "because". Hawke needs the money. Bartrand can provide it, as long as Hawke can chip in.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

hasn't paid attention

I think its implied that you need to throw in as part of an investment. Why should they be spending all of their money and its THEIR find, so why should they cut you in? Its an investment to make you a partner and such, a cut of their profits.

It is not just implied.

"We don't need another guard, what we need is a partner."

Bartrand is unable to scrape together the money that he needs to get the expedition running; and I would assume that this is quite the sum that he would need. Guards. Rations. Supplies (weapons/transport/comfort). All of that needs to be paid for, and the brothers are lacking it. Please keep in mind that this is not just a quick jaunt down the next hole in the ground. The Expedition took weeks.

You are not just there to trudge along, you are a partner in their business venture and entitled to a fair share of the profit made from the expedition.

... alot more likely than the usual approach to "quests" like that as a simple hireling or just "because". Hawke needs the money. Bartrand can provide it, as long as Hawke can chip in.

It had been awhile since I was at that point in the game. I couldn't remember their exact words so I thought I'd play it safe heh heh.

 

[Eisenfaust]

the 50 sovereigns were to cover the remaining cost that bartrand couldn't pay... supplies, weapons, soldiers, would have ended up for being a couple of months, and i can't imagine the danger money you have to fork out to 10 or 20 goons for running into the deep roads is particularly low... they don't exactly run around with you but you do see them

you do technically see returns on the investment... you may only come away from it having doubled your physical money, but you have a nice house and blah blah blah

 

[Zaik]

Did you skip the entire dialogue that went on at the beginning of Act 1?

You're paying the 50 gold as an investment in order to get 33% of the treasure, after paying expenses.

Investing wasn't a concept invented with Wall Street.

 

[Chrissyluky]

Lord people I last played two weeks ago is it unreasonable to not remember all of the dialogue from act 1? Also the expedition only lasted a few weeks from what I remember, a month if you include getting back out. From what I saw there were only 2 guards so really it was for the most part all riding on your party unless those two were going to kill giant spiders themselves. They would need to be pretty highly skilled to kill all those darkspawn themselves and not have heavy casualties from the taint and with your reputation you seem to be their only choice, the only reasonable conclusion is Bartrand and Varric are bald faced liars who get you to pay for the whole trip yourself and carry it. This just seemed like a very lazy way of lengthening the game by forcing you to do all of the sidequests before you can continue on(unless you choose the "other deal" which I assume voids you of almost all profits).

 

[Anah'ya]

No there are actually some other guards that go with you to the deep roads.

Where? I never saw a single one, maybe vaguely remember one or two in the conversations but how much do faceless guards really cost? The only real reason I can think of was already mentioned by Clive.

Apply your imagination a little bit. Just because you haven't seen the MASSES of refugees in Kirkwall doesn't mean they are not there. [small](Sadly enough BioWare doesn't currently seem to own an engine that would allow for the accurate depiction of the sheer amount of people as seen in other games. But this is unrelated.)[/small] The same can be said about the rest of the crew belonging to the Expedition.

You even have merchants (Bodahn and Sandal) with you, and I would assume a cook and a field medic, along with all the people and creatures carrying supplies and of course the guards.

 

[Trolldor]

No there are actually some other guards that go with you to the deep roads.

Where? I never saw a single one, maybe vaguely remember one or two in the conversations but how much do faceless guards really cost? The only real reason I can think of was already mentioned by Clive.

Apply your imagination a little bit. Just because you haven't seen the MASSES of refugees in Kirkwall doesn't mean they are not there. [small](Sadly enough BioWare doesn't currently seem to own an engine that would allow for the accurate depiction of the sheer amount of people as seen in other games. But this is unrelated.)[/small] The same can be said about the rest of the crew belonging to the Expedition.

You even have merchants (Bodahn and Sandal) with you, and I would assume a cook and a field medic, along with all the people and creatures carrying supplies and of course the guards.

Apaprently it wasn't engine limitations but the limits of consoles that forced them to reduce the amount of people.

I lol'd.

 

[Anah'ya]

No there are actually some other guards that go with you to the deep roads.

Where? I never saw a single one, maybe vaguely remember one or two in the conversations but how much do faceless guards really cost? The only real reason I can think of was already mentioned by Clive.

Apply your imagination a little bit. Just because you haven't seen the MASSES of refugees in Kirkwall doesn't mean they are not there. [small](Sadly enough BioWare doesn't currently seem to own an engine that would allow for the accurate depiction of the sheer amount of people as seen in other games. But this is unrelated.)[/small] The same can be said about the rest of the crew belonging to the Expedition.

You even have merchants (Bodahn and Sandal) with you, and I would assume a cook and a field medic, along with all the people and creatures carrying supplies and of course the guards.

Apaprently it wasn't engine limitations but the limits of consoles that forced them to reduce the amount of people.

I lol'd.

Hm.

*facepalms*

Really though?

I have not seen a single BioWare game so far (even back when they were exclusive for the PC) that excelled in showing a score of people. Talis in the Knights of the Old Republic was fairly empty considering the sheer amount of folks you should have been seeing milling about. So I was always under the impression that they just didn't (and still don't) have the resources for it.

The largest "mass" of creatures on scree at once I have seen so far in one of their games was the minion-1shot battle after you crashed the gates at Denerim in Dragon Age: Origins, and that was an illusion at best at it just spawned the creatures continuously.

I would love to see a BioWare game (preferably one set in the Dragon Age franchise) done in the Anvil engine (AC).

... suppose they will at least be able to support a good crowd in Old Republic. *mmmmmm*

 

[Simon Pettersson]

From what I saw there were only 2 guards so really it was for the most part all riding on your party unless those two were going to kill giant spiders themselves. They would need to be pretty highly skilled to kill all those darkspawn themselves and not have heavy casualties from the taint...

Actually those 2 would die of a heart attack as soon as the spiders jumped down on them
But they don´t need to kill anything because Sandal is there

 

[Trolldor]

No there are actually some other guards that go with you to the deep roads.

Where? I never saw a single one, maybe vaguely remember one or two in the conversations but how much do faceless guards really cost? The only real reason I can think of was already mentioned by Clive.

Apply your imagination a little bit. Just because you haven't seen the MASSES of refugees in Kirkwall doesn't mean they are not there. [small](Sadly enough BioWare doesn't currently seem to own an engine that would allow for the accurate depiction of the sheer amount of people as seen in other games. But this is unrelated.)[/small] The same can be said about the rest of the crew belonging to the Expedition.

You even have merchants (Bodahn and Sandal) with you, and I would assume a cook and a field medic, along with all the people and creatures carrying supplies and of course the guards.

Apaprently it wasn't engine limitations but the limits of consoles that forced them to reduce the amount of people.

I lol'd.

Hm.

*facepalms*

Really though?

I have not seen a single BioWare game so far (even back when they were exclusive for the PC) that excelled in showing a score of people. Talis in the Knights of the Old Republic was fairly empty considering the sheer amount of folks you should have been seeing milling about. So I was always under the impression that they just didn't (and still don't) have the resources for it.

The largest "mass" of creatures on scree at once I have seen so far in one of their games was the minion-1shot battle after you crashed the gates at Denerim in Dragon Age: Origins, and that was an illusion at best at it just spawned the creatures continuously.

I would love to see a BioWare game (preferably one set in the Dragon Age franchise) done in the Anvil engine (AC).

... suppose they will at least be able to support a good crowd in Old Republic. *mmmmmm*

Their older games were limited by engines, but there was no reason DA2 couldn't have had a modified or new engine reflecting this - except for the fact that it was a multi-platform game, and thus had to accomodate the lowest common denominator.

 

[Chrissyluky]

Well Bioware develops their own engines(for the most part), and most rpgs use a lot of backdrops to allow the illusion of a large city. Dragon age 2 actually has some of their more realistic towns which are actually...populated. This was also on a brand new engine so really I doubt this was an issue of system resources and more of plot convenience. It still totally bothers me that almost your whole party isn't a gray warden but you willingly fight darkspawn like it's nothing. In dragon age origins there are quite a few gray wardens including the main character. In origins the task is far more plausible than in this installment. It's like playing a game of operation where if you touch the sides the whole game blows up. Honestly your whole party is probably clinically insane considering they agreed to do this without pay anyways.

 

[Trolldor]

Well Bioware develops their own engines(for the most part), and most rpgs use a lot of backdrops to allow the illusion of a large city. Dragon age 2 actually has some of their more realistic towns which are actually...populated. This was also on a brand new engine so really I doubt this was an issue of system resources and more of plot convenience. It still totally bothers me that almost your whole party isn't a gray warden but you willingly fight darkspawn like it's nothing. In dragon age origins there are quite a few gray wardens including the main character. In origins the task is far more plausible than in this installment. It's like playing a game of operation where if you touch the sides the whole game blows up. Honestly your whole party is probably clinically insane considering they agreed to do this without pay.

As I said elsewhere - the potential is destroyed by intellectually dumbing the game down.

Edit: The dialogue wheel stops character exploration on the player's part, forcing you in to 'events' if you want backstory, which also limits what part of the backstory is revealed.
The only thing they got right was party banter - something the player is in no way involved with at all.

 

[Anah'ya]

Their older games were limited by engines, but there was no reason DA2 couldn't have had a modified or new engine reflecting this - except for the fact that it was a multi-platform game, and thus had to accomodate the lowest common denominator.

I suppose that makes sense, though I would still like to see it in action to have the proof that they did actually manage to create an engine that supports a massive population of characters on screen.

Well Bioware develops their own engines(for the most part), and most rpgs use a lot of backdrops to allow the illusion of a large city. Dragon age 2 actually has some of their more realistic towns which are actually...populated. This was also on a brand new engine so really I doubt this was an issue of system resources and more of plot convenience. It still totally bothers me that almost your whole party isn't a gray warden but you willingly fight darkspawn like it's nothing. In dragon age origins there are quite a few gray wardens including the main character. In origins the task is far more plausible than in this installment. It's like playing a game of operation where if you touch the sides the whole game blows up. Honestly your whole party is probably clinically insane considering they agreed to do this without pay.

I believe Trolldor answered this perfectly. No, this was not a plot decision. The plot does not say you went down there just you, Bartrand, Bodahn and Sandal and your party of choice. This would not just be implausible, it would straight out idiotic considering the scope of the expedition.

In Dragon Age Origins you have 3 Wardens (4 if you make Loghain one). And a whole army of none Wardens fighting the Blight alongside you in both large battles -- and a great, great deal of every day folk and refugees fighting their own battles in the background. Like Hawke and his/her family as they flee Lothering.

What is implausible about that? I am not sure what argument you are trying to make.

Everyone is getting paid for the expedition. That is what you need the money for.

The only true nutjob would be whoever you take along aside from your sister/brother or instead of them. Though considering the nature of the characters is it that much of a surprise?

 

[Anah'ya]

As I said elsewhere - the potential is destroyed by intellectually dumbing the game down.

Edit: The dialogue wheel stops character exploration on the player's part, forcing you in to 'events' if you want backstory, which also limits what part of the backstory is revealed.
The only thing they got right was party banter - something the player is in no way involved with at all.

I would so much like to have a in depth discussion about this with you, though I believe it would end up ugly

 

[Chrissyluky]

There were changes I liked and changes I didn't like but some of these plot holes are maddening. (in my opinion)There was clearly less work put into this than there was in the sequel to mass effect which had what I would consider mostly positive changes. Also it's implausible because you are a small force not a large army, they go down into the deep roads with such a small party they even restrict how many people you can take. Sending a small force to a month long expedetion with no immunity to darkspawn(which they KNOW there will be a lot of). This is the equivalent of sending swat officers to take down armed gunmen without any body armor on after forgetting to pay them. Not only are heavy casualties guaranteed but nobody would agree to something that stupid especially when they aren't being paid.

 

[Anah'ya]

There were changes I liked and changes I didn't like but some of these plot holes are maddening. (in my opinion)There was clearly less work put into this than there was in the sequel to mass effect which had what I would consider mostly positive changes.

You are considering the Expedition a plot hole, because why? Because you refuse to believe that an Expedition that takes weeks (I suppose 2 months would get close) and takes you into the Deep Roads requires supplies and guards?

I am trying to understand here, that is why I am asking.

What else do you consider a plot hole? People who are not Gray Wardens fighting Dark Spawn? So every time a none Warden picks up a sword against a Dark Spawn in Origins that's a plot hole too? Let alone those pesky Legions of the Dead. Craze, plot holing bastards!

I am really confused.