The Felicia Day/Destructoid situation

[Moonlight Butterfly]

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Then you can't believe anyone on the internet who says they are a gamer... by the same rules. Including Jim Sterling and Yahtzee.

 

[TAdamson]

Felicia Day is significantly less talented,

That's a completely subjective opinion and it's apparent that many people don't share it.

but gets work and featured at expos because of notoriety she gained via gaming communities

So she did some networking? Newsflash buddy: That's how you get work.

and her niche audience of gamers that put her on a pedestal because she's "female gamer".

So? Why do you care? I don't get particularly excited about Felicia Day but if some nerdy males and possibly females want to idolize her then fuck.. Why not?

She's quite attractive (Though as you've said that's a subjective thing.) She makes video content about gaming on YouTube (I don't particularly care for it but there's no accounting for taste.) She acts in games.

What about ANY OF THAT leads to her deserving being compared to the mostly clueless models who dress up for E3?

 

[Ympulse]

Erm firstly you know I'm a woman right?

You're a pile of meat behind a computer screen. I don't care what your gender is.

I'm hardly fawning over her. From what I have seen of her work she is an actress that really gets into gaming and general geekdom just the same as Nathan Fillion.

I had to look up Nathan Fillion. Goddamn he's everywhere.

Comparing the two is a bit dishonest. Nathan has more work done in the 'geek' subculture in the last 5 years than Fday has in her entire imdb listing.

The reason why Vin Diesel doesn't get so much attention along with self professed gamer Megan Fox is because they don't get involved very much. Whereas gaming and geekdom is definitely Felicia's 'thing'

Vin has actually worked with WotC in the past. I don't have links on hand, but he's gotten involved somewhat. Point taken, however.

Why do women have to go the extra mile to prove themselves when it comes to gaming while guys are just believed off hand? It's so bloody noxious.

Because nine times out of ten, the only reason the woman is where she is is because of the male-dominated stereotype the subculture is notorious for. If FDay was just some skinny guy, he would've left the scene by now for greener pastures, because he's just another dude in a sea of dudes.

That is the crux of my point. If you were to reverse her gender, what would she be? A B-level actor with nothing of note going for them. There would be absolutely no point to mentioning Fred.

 

[Vault101]

'Forced fired because he had an opinion'.

Wow...bonk Destructoid .

no, he was fired for making a really bad PR mistake, and being an ass

was it fair? no

does this illustrate the dangers of typing befoe you think? yes

 

[Blade_125]

Hmm... I wonder what Ryan Perez has "provided to gaming." Oh, wait, nobody asks that question because he has a Y chromosome and it's not a good question.

Yeah, far be it to see anybody EVER being cruel to a man. Not like losing his job for a few dumbass comments, that'd never happen.

Would a female games journalist get fired for saying that? Be it to Day, or any man/woman. Not that I agree with his comments, I neither give a fuck who he is nor what he said, and have just the tiniest inkling of who Felicia Day is. That being said, I've heard this question before, so perhaps it's not one man's issues with sexism.

He was fired because he made a stupid comment and the company he worked for was worried it would cost them business if they kept him. That is the only reason. Your comparison doesn't belong in the real business world.

 

[Overusedname]

Precisely this.

For the record, I think it was rude and completely uncalled for that he said that, but FIRING SOMEONE over this is insane.

I still feel the need to say however...Felicia Day is a very innocent party in all this. She's just an actress whose done some voice work for games and helps make a little webcomic about gaming culture. Oh god, how awful.

I think the sexism accusation comes from the 'glorified booth-babe' comment. Mr. Perez, the woman is a writer, experienced actor, voice actor, and a positive example of 'gamers' in the popular culture. Where in god's name did the 'booth-babe' comment come from?

All in all, the guys a dumbass, but he doesn't deserve to be homeless.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Mentioned that I was a woman because I'm clearly not fawning over Felicia. My screen door doesn't swing that way.

Because nine times out of ten, the only reason the woman is where she is is because of the male-dominated stereotype the subculture is notorious for.

Really? Proof to back up those statistics? Didn't think so.

Felicia's Work is no different to Fillion's she has been in Fallout New Vegas had an entire Dragon Age 2 DLC built around her. Done some very good web series involving games. Starred in Supernatural (very convincingly) as a geek/gamer.

Her voice acting is actually very good. I wanted her to be in Skyrim because I enjoyed her character of Veronica so much.

You are only suspicious of her because she is a woman. If we reversed her gendered she'd probably get a lot more respect.

 

[manic_depressive13]

I'm glad there were repercussions to show that this attitude is not acceptable. There are plenty of men who are practically worshipped by the gaming community who have not contributed anything in particular, namely Nathan Fillion and Neil Patrick Harris. People just like them because they are cool dudes, and no one has ever asked them to justify themselves. This guy just decided to attack Felicia Day because apparently it is her fault that she is an attractive female participating in a male dominated culture.

Even if she is only famous because of her looks and not her work, is that her fault for being attractive, or is it the fault of all the neck beards who would place someone on a pedestal for that reason? Perez's comments were aggresive, uncalled for and made a sexist accusation, and fuck knows that women in gaming (and everywhere else, to be honest) get enough shit about their appearance. You can't be percieved as unattractive because then you're an ugly dyke, you can't be considered pretty because then you're a talentless hack. How can any woman be legitimately involved in gaming if they are automatically met with distrust and accused of only wanting attention?

 

[lumenadducere]

Nope not at all.

Remember MTV cribs back in the day? Practically every celebrity talked about playing Xbox with their friends and such, this was fine. None we're going out of their way to be a part of gaming culture, acting like any sort of authority on it, or stating that they played Xbox to increase their fanbase.

Also, nah, plenty of talent writers and artists in the gaming industry don't give two shits about gaming -- it's just a job to them.

Jennifer Hale has been in a ton of games because she is an incredibly talented voice actress. She has never pandered to the gaming audience, hell, the first we really heard from her was ala ME.

Felicia Day is significantly less talented, but gets work and featured at expos because of notoriety she gained via gaming communities and her niche audience of gamers that put her on a pedestal because she's "female gamer".

What amuses me about this is that you're still saying you think she's lying and not a "real gamer" and that she doesn't deserve the spotlight that she has. Fine, that's your opinion, but you also seem to be missing a key point, which is the very fact that she's reaching out to the gaming community as a persona that she's being embraced.

Jennifer Hale is more talented as a VA, yes, but she's also not featured or followed as much because she has admitted herself that she's not a gamer. Felicia Day has (or I guess in your opinion merely claims to be), and as a part of that seeks to actively engage with the fanbase. Yes, a good chunk of it is probably due to seeking more work, but that does not somehow undermine her "cred" or her interest in gaming. You seem to have created this construct of her in your head where she's a liar and is merely liked for being a female gamer, rather than of being a gaming personality. What does Wil Wheton have to do with gaming, and why is he featured at these expos just as prominently? I'd actually venture that he has less than she does. And yet somehow it's perfectly okay for him to be around and held up on a pedestal and yet it's not okay for her?

So due to a combination of her not being "established enough" (by some unknown metric that you've made up) and her actively reaching out to a community that also garners her work, you don't think she's genuine. What this boils down to is that you have an odd, irrational dislike for her based on zero evidence. Which is fine - to each their own, etc. - but you should at least recognize that that's what it is and save yourself the effort of trying to justify it to other people, because I don't think it's working.

As for the OT: That's how companies work. If any employee publicly does something dumb or that they don't like, they get let go. The only possible exception is if that person is too valuable to fire, in which case they get reeled in and made to be quiet for a while. It's all about the bottom line, really, and like it or not Destructoid is still a business. The negative PR from not firing him wasn't worth keeping him on, so they let him go. The vast majority of companies out there would have done the same, regardless of gender or accusations of sexism. Look at the guy on Reddit who posted about how excited he was for his new job at Google and then got fired the next day. In this case it's the sensible economic thing to do.

 

[joshuaayt]

Ugh. "No, fuck off, you aren't nearly as qualified to be linked with gaming as I am. Look, I'm a writer for destructoid- that means I'm cool enough to be in the club. No lamers allowed."

...Is all I got from that tweet. What is it with people and exclusivity? Last I checked, the club in question is actually really, really big- It can probably fit the both of you, Mr. Perez.

 

[6_Qubed]

So, to sum up and conclude; No, a person should not be fired for their personal opinion, assuming of course that they can keep it to themselves.

Which this guy couldn't.

but its not as harmless as a personal opinion...its some dick going out of his way to say to somone "justify yourself to me!"...not saying he deserved that

As someone who works the food industry, if I actually voiced my demands that the customers justify their existence as human beings, I wouldn't get any work done.

Actually, that's not relevant. Scratch that I said that. Two points; First, he was not attempting to represent Destructoid, near as I can tell. He may have had his "asshole on the Internet" hat screwed on a little too tight, but he spoke for himself. Second, he was not attacking hot geeky women in general, rather his inquiry was related specifically to Felicia Day.

Actually, that's not relevant either. The dude couldn't keep his mouth shut, he brought a lot of undeserved heat on Destructoid, and he got fired because of it. This is a fact. What more do you want Destructoid to do, nail him to a crucifix?

(And just because I'm self-conscious, did you actually read the spoilered part of my post?)

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Even if she is only famous because of her looks and not her work, is that her fault for being attractive, or is it the fault of all the neck beards who would place someone on a pedestal for that reason? Perez's comments were aggresive, uncalled for and made a sexist accusation, and fuck knows that women in gaming (and everywhere else, to be honest) get enough shit about their appearance. You can't be percieved as unattractive because then you're an ugly dyke, you can't be considered pretty because then you're a talentless hack. How can any woman be legitimately involved in gaming if they are automatically met with distrust and accused of only wanting attention?

The exact reason I sign my gaming reviews 'Charlie' and not Charlotte -.- It's just more trouble than it's worth.

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Just...oh dear.

Because the fact that she might actually enjoy games is just unbelievable. I mean she has ovaries right! They make you stand in the fire!.

 

[TAdamson]

Because nine times out of ten, the only reason the woman is where she is is because of the male-dominated stereotype the subculture is notorious for. If FDay was just some skinny guy, he would've left the scene by now for greener pastures, because he's just another dude in a sea of dudes.

It's attitudes like this that lead to less women playing games. Why is it that if an attractive women succeeds in something male dominated it must be because of her looks?

I agree with the guy you're responding to... Noxious.

Don't be so bloody exclusionary. It's a fucking hobby.

 

[J. Mazarin]

-snip

Dude, I get what you're saying but it all pretty much doesn't matter.

It's an action -> consequence type of thing here.

When I get an internship, do you think I'm going to ask one of the engineers at the company what she's even accomplished in the industry? Ask her to prove that the boss didn't hire her because he thought she was hot and that she's little more than his workplace pet?

Of course I would never do that, because it'd be a stupid, pointless thing to do and they'd fire my ass the first chance they got.

That's what happens in the real world, you pay for your actions with consequences. The dude didn't want to get fired? Shouldn't have said stupid shit publicly. Working in a media-related industry, that should be common fucking sense.

 

[Ympulse]

It's attitudes like this that lead to less women playing games. Why is it that if an attractive women succeeds in something male dominated it must be because of her looks?

Because I am unimpressed by her work as a whole. If Fday were a male, he would've been marginalized as an entity by now.

Call me what you like. I prefer looking at reality.

catchpa: full stop. Thank you for punctuating that for me, catchpa.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Just...oh dear.

Because the fact that she might actually enjoy games is just unbelievable. I mean she has ovaries right! They make you stand in the fire!.

Uh, what?

Are you saying that isn't a thing someone could do?

Nope but I certainly don't think Felicia Day is doing it. The fact that it's the conclusion people jump to first about an attractive woman who games is beyond irritating.

 

[mindlesspuppet]

Being a dick is kind of par for the course on Destructiod.

Point. Do you have one?

Would have thought it was pretty obvious. If being a dick is par for the course, than it's silly when they get rid of someone for it.

Certainly celebrities never take on a public persona to garner a specific audience, I'm sure that never happens...

...And that obviously proves that's exactly what she's doing. Obviously. Because when I want any kind of insight into Ms. Day's mind, I come directly to the Escapist to talk to my good pal Salvan. After all, he knows Felicia's deepest, darkest secrets about how she really doesn't like games at all and is just in it for teh nerd credz.

I like how you raise the snarkiness factor here to make it seem like your point is stronger. I do that a lot too.

Does it prove that's what Felicia Day is doing? No, of course not. Does it happen and is it possible that it's the case? Absolutely. I, and plenty others, are simply of the opinion that in this instance it is the case.

No but seriously, what you're saying is silly in ways that I'm having a hard time conveying.

So... let's work with this quote here:

Ever think she's acting like a gamer because she's not attractive enough to be a leading lady and not talented enough to be a dramatic actress?

You're absolutely correct here. I had actually intended that statement to be at least partially in jest, but internet and all, doesn't always translate well.

If I was a complete fucking assclown (in addition to having a healthy disdain for you personally), using your logic I could say something along these lines:

Honestly, I'm kind of flattered. I usually don't even realize who I'm replying to (tend to just reply to the statement, not the person), and you've got a health disdain for me, so that's kind of cool.

"Hey! Hey Escapist! Hey everybody here! You see this mindlesspuppet guy? You see how he wrote some reviews for anime? Well, I think the only reason he did that was because he's too much of a talentless hack to write about news or games. So, in order to get some reviews in, he just acted like he enjoys anime because everyone knows people who like anime are shallow tools who have no taste in writing."

xD , I'm pretty sure a number people said this when I didn't give a series they liked a good review. Whenever you put yourself or your opinion out there it's pretty much expected. Which is, in large, a part of the reason that this whole ordeal over Perez/Day seems a bit out of hand to me.

But I would never say something like that, because it would be both rude and incorrect to you and anime fans alike; you know a great deal about anime, and it shows in your writing. In my experience, such a knowledge comes from genuine enjoyment of something.

And that "enjoyment" is what a lot of people feel they share with Felicia; a love of games.

Well thanks, I appreciate that you see that in my writing.

I do understand the point you're making here. I'm not trying to dismiss it. What I am questioning is does she legitimately have a love for gaming or is she just playing to the crowd. I feel like I've seen one too many interviews or appearances by her where she just kind of seemed lost in the gaming world. I don't expect her to be an almanac of gaming knowledge, but I do expect her to be able to hold her own in an interview.

So tell us great one, what information do you have that proves she's just playing up the gaming crowd? Because right now, your argument seems to be "C'mon, she's totally a fraud. Trust me."

I could easily do the same here; what information do you have that proves she's not playing up the crowd?

Of course being the internet, you and I could both demand evidence. We could scour Youtube for videos that support our claims. Write pages about the reasoning and logic that formed our opinion. In the end, it's really up to our own interpretation. Unfortunately, I can't open her Wiki page and see "She's a great big phony!" (actually I may be able to, but I doubt it'd be cited).

I feel she panders herself to the gaming crowd, that's fine if you don't.

I don't feel Ryan Perez should have had to leave Destructiod over this, when such behavior wasn't really anything out of the ordinary for them. Moreover, what he said is nothing that hadn't been said many times over about her already.

But way to comment with no real insight, argument, or anything of value.

That's the majority of posts on these forums, haha. Glad you're not the one in charge.

I'm glad I'm not in charge too, that would be awful. I'd be mass banning everytime I saw "Mass Effect".

I'd also like to say, if I'm coming off as aggressive or hostile, I don't intend to. I'm a wee bit tired of seeing the people claim "OMG you just don't like her because you don't think gamers should have vaginas!" or something similar, whether it's addressed to myself or someone else. Like my original post in this thread says: not everything involving a female and gaming is sexist, sometimes you just plain don't like someone.

 

[IceStar100]

Because nine times out of ten, the only reason the woman is where she is is because of the male-dominated stereotype the subculture is notorious for. If FDay was just some skinny guy, he would've left the scene by now for greener pastures, because he's just another dude in a sea of dudes.

It's attitudes like this that lead to less women playing games. Why is it that if an attractive women succeeds in something male dominated it must be because of her looks?

I agree with the guy you're responding to... Noxious.

Don't be so bloody exclusionary. It's a fucking hobby.

Truth is truth you can get mad or accept it. Your never going to she a football team like the packers with ugly cheerleaders. If miss day morgan web or even Olivia munn had not been plesent to the eye they would had to have found work else where. Being mad about how life is just shorten your through your. I know I'll never be a male modle or work a soap opra becuase I don't have the looks for it. Nor will I ever be the prez becuase I don't have the connections. That life she got lucky enough to be pretty so she gets a job same as the reporter chick in mass effect.

 

[Mrsoupcup]

I'm just as tired of seeing Felica day as him, she's not a good actor and only gets work because of nerd pandering.

It's not sexist to find someone using sex appeal for fame irritating.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

SNIP

Or maybe she is just good at her job and enthusiastic about games.
That would be crazy I know right? I mean she's a woman. IT CAN'T POSSIBLY BE TRUE!!

-.-