The Felicia Day/Destructoid situation

[Kahunaburger]

The only part that could even be interpreted as sexist in there is the booth babe thing but in an industry that supports booth babes, it is a totally valid and non sexist remark.

However, he was using "glorified booth babe" as an insult. Which, in the context of what you pointed out, is interesting. What does it say about the "gaming community" when most major gaming events are staffed by scantily-clad female staff but said scantily-clad female staff are disrespected to the point that comparison to one is an insult?

Additionally, we don't have male models dressing in a sheet portrayong Kratos. The only times cosplay or booth models are used at booths is when female sex appeal is being used for marketing purposes. Most of Day's fans are men in the gaming community who profess their love for her, not their respect for her. (This is not to say she is not respected but the word 'love' is often emphasized in these remarks in a way I don't hear anyone use towards a male.) There is sound logic in his claims and any sexism found in his claims don't necessarily mean his claims are sexist but perhaps popular reaction to Day is sexist. I see a lot of killing the messenger here. A lot of his comment is that from his perspective the community is being sexist. Then he is being called sexist for pointing it out.

I think there's definitely a point to be made about Day's fanbase's creepier elements and how it relates to sexism against women in gaming. I don't think that calling her a glorified booth babe is getting at the problematic elements there.

 

[Hjalmar Fryklund]

I think there's definitely a point to be made about Day's fanbase's creepier elements and how it relates to sexism against women in gaming. I don't think that calling her a glorified booth babe is getting at the problematic elements there.

You mind if I stick my head in here again?

There was an intersting post a good couple of pages back that I think deserve a bit of discussion.

I've never understood her popularity either. What's she done? A tertiary role on Buffy, a couple game voiceovers, and a decent web show. Am I forgetting something? I like her just fine, but I've never understood why her presence in something is noteworthy. That said, I don't hold her success against her at all, and this guy's comments are way too aggressive in any case. I don't see him as sexist as much as tactless and rude (except for that booth babe line).

Well, here goes (and without trying to be sexist, though I'm certain some clowns will come screaming that anyway):

She's a attractive young woman who is socially talented, relatively well connected and has given gamers some kind of "acceptability" cred by doing the whole, "look, I game!" thing. It started off, I'm sure, with great intentions. The shows first season was cute, filled with a bunch of "huh, that's actually true" moments, but later has gone the way one could fully have expected: Team Unicorn posing nude and provocatively surrounded by gaming gear, Felicia's two music videos that have focused on her more feminine assets, the Dragon Age character and show, also not exactly hiding the whole "pretty girl, omg!" bits.

Now, I'm not saying that a beautiful woman can't be a gamer or a gaming "icon", whatever the hell that even means anymore, but I am saying that this pedestal gamers have built for her and put her on is a reaction not to anything significant that she's done, but more owing to the fact that, yes, she is a beautiful lady actress who likes what we do. It is a different case from having someone like Will Wheaton do the same thing, we KNOW men like this stuff. Or do you think that it's been just an accident that the Guild show plays up the sexuality of Day, Amy Okuda or Michelle Boyd, while delegating actress Robin Thorsen to the "ditzy, vapid silly person" part?

Has she brought more women into gaming? I don't know. If so, awesome! There's no question that female role-models are lacking in that area. But to pretend and act as if she's some kind of Virgin Mary, or someone that people can't point out and say that there is (and there IS) an aspect to her that she uses very well, which is inherently tied to her being an attractive woman, is bollocks.

Perez is a dick, there's no two ways about it. His Twitter feed is testimony of this. But had he actually gone and written a proper, direct and thought out article with the same idea in mind, I'm pretty certain that he would have found a lot more proper discussion and support for the thought.

 

[Wicky_42]

i think sexism is wrong(and most -isms)

Judaism? Constructivism? Baptism? Atheism? Patriotism? Colloquialism? Heterosexism?

 

[runic knight]

I think there's definitely a point to be made about Day's fanbase's creepier elements and how it relates to sexism against women in gaming. I don't think that calling her a glorified booth babe is getting at the problematic elements there.

Fair enough, but would you call it sexist to point at the sort of fan-base and fervor she gets and ask "what the hell?"? That seems to be kinda what the guy was trying to do, albeit in the worse way possible. saying she was a glorified booth babe is saying it is her gender that is a main reason she is famous, which comes off as sexist, yes, but in the context of where he is asking why she is seen all over and what makes her such a big deal, it really just seems bitter outrage that she made it big because of her fan's own sexist attitude towards her for being a woman. To put it another way, he presents it as they like her because she is a girl gamer rather then because of her talents or personality as is, or any legitimate contribution to games (whatever his defintion of contribution is). He is a dick for it, and wrong certainly, but is it sexist? I can't see it as such, "sexist" derogatory words or not.

 

[everythingbeeps]

i think sexism is wrong(and most -isms)

Judaism? Constructivism? Baptism? Atheism? Patriotism? Colloquialism? Heterosexism?

Definitely baptism. Seriously, is it actually in the Bible that we have to nearly drown our babies before god can see them?

 

[Fusioncode9]

Why was this guy being a dick in the first place? Did she do anything to him to warrant such cruel statements? And for the record, what he done for gaming?

People really need to stop destroying their careers with twitter, first was the Duke Nukem Forever PR guy, then Spoony, now this.

 

[Wicky_42]

i think sexism is wrong(and most -isms)

Judaism? Constructivism? Baptism? Atheism? Patriotism? Colloquialism? Heterosexism?

Definitely baptism. Seriously, is it actually in the Bible that we have to nearly drown our babies before god can see them?

Lol, if you're drowning the kids you're doing it wrong These days many churches get away with a dab of water on the forehead.

What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

i think sexism is wrong(and most -isms)

Judaism? Constructivism? Baptism? Atheism? Patriotism? Colloquialism? Heterosexism?

yep, i'm an ismist. i cant help it, its the way my father brought me up

 

[everythingbeeps]

i think sexism is wrong(and most -isms)

Judaism? Constructivism? Baptism? Atheism? Patriotism? Colloquialism? Heterosexism?

Definitely baptism. Seriously, is it actually in the Bible that we have to nearly drown our babies before god can see them?

Lol, if you're drowning the kids you're doing it wrong These days many churches get away with a dab of water on the forehead.

What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger

That's why I said "nearly". (smileyface here)

And anyway, a dab of water on the forehead is totally cheating, but then that's what I expect out of the religious these days.

 

[Schadrach]

i think sexism is wrong(and most -isms)

Judaism? Constructivism? Baptism? Atheism? Patriotism? Colloquialism? Heterosexism?

yep, i'm an ismist. i cant help it, its the way my father brought me up

ismism? You must recursively hate yourself...

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

i think sexism is wrong(and most -isms)

Judaism? Constructivism? Baptism? Atheism? Patriotism? Colloquialism? Heterosexism?

yep, i'm an ismist. i cant help it, its the way my father brought me up

ismism? You must recursively hate yourself...

its the cross i must bare

 

[Kahunaburger]

snip

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Yeah, I agree that there's definitely questions that can be asked about Day's fanbase, if not in the exact way that this guy asked them haha. I also don't know if she's the right person to discuss this type of issue with, oddly enough - if I was an actor/actress, I'd personally be pretty hesitant to question a good portion of my fans for being my fans. I also think there's an extent to which this sort of "fans with crush" thing comes with the territory for attractive celebs.

Going back to what Hjalmar said about the "women are, men do" cultural construct, I do think it's interesting that we tend to as a society judge women much more harshly for having this sort of fanbase than men. So you don't see David Tennant attacked for having a legion of squeeing fangirls, but we do see Felicia Day attacked for having a legion of squeeing fanboys.

 

[DoPo]

Who is Felicia Day and why should we care about what she contributed to gaming or not?

OK, I actually know who she is, but the question stands - how is she connected to video games and all the rest?

Voice actress, actress, produces and acts in The Guild; a gaming show on the web that made it to cable and has a hilarious music video "Do You Want To Date My Avatar". Funny, cute, does cosplay, is a geek. Doesn't deserve to be crapped on because she is supporting a game. Check imdb.com and look her up.

If you did know who she is how could you not know the video game connections?

I knew she was in Dr Horrible's Singalong Blog. That's what I meant - I knew she was an actress and I knew one of the places she played in. I don't know her full bio, nor did I know why Perez said he was seeing her all over the place, and most of all, TC wrote his point with the assumption that we'd know exactly everything relevant. Well, I didn't. And I didn't feel the need to go do a research so I could be on track with the topic, and frankly, I shouldn't need to.

 

[GoodEyeSniper]

i think sexism is wrong(and most -isms)

Judaism? Constructivism? Baptism? Atheism? Patriotism? Colloquialism? Heterosexism?

Isn't heterosexism the belief that heterosexuality is inherently better and more deserving of respect than other forms of sexual orientation? Because I'm kind of against that.

Juzzayin'.

 

[Schadrach]

I knew she was in Dr Horrible's Singalong Blog. That's what I meant - I knew she was an actress and I knew one of the places she played in. I don't know her full bio, nor did I know why Perez said he was seeing her all over the place, and most of all, TC wrote his point with the assumption that we'd know exactly everything relevant. Well, I didn't. And I didn't feel the need to go do a research so I could be on track with the topic, and frankly, I shouldn't need to.

Actually, if you look at geek targeted media, if there's an "sweet, innocent, but usually awkward" redhead, and it was made in the last several years, it's probably her. Kinda like Summer Glau and "weird but usually badass chick." Or Wil Wheaton and "tall, dark, and douchey."

 

[evilneko]

This thread got 18 pages and I don't even know who this Felicia Day person is.

At first I thought it was a day for the celebrating of Felicia. [http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gWQaU40PH24/THmNeJGWcfI/AAAAAAAAI6o/-C3h7i8i4Lo/s1600/Felicia_DarkStalkers_03.jpg]

 

[Lonewolfm16]

Hmm... I wonder what Ryan Perez has "provided to gaming." Oh, wait, nobody asks that question because he has a Y chromosome and it's not a good question.

Yeah, far be it to see anybody EVER being cruel to a man. Not like losing his job for a few dumbass comments, that'd never happen.

Yeah, because getting in hot water over sexist remarks is totally the same as being the target of sexist remarks, guise. (Like, seriously, did anyone call, for instance, Nathan Fillion a "glorified booth babe" for being in and helping to promote a Halo game?)

Sexism? Really? How was this in any way sexist? This wasnt anti-women it was anti a specific person. By the logic of he insulted a woman therefore he hates women dont you hate men?

 

[MyNameIsNowNotMyName]

On his personal twitter? That's pretty goddam stupid if you ask me. Firing sounds a bit extreme in this situation, but we know how the video gaming community feels about about women. We can't can't handle anything calmly.

[sub](past 2 months of rape and feminism threads on the escapist)[/sub]

Oh god don't... You might wake it up again!

NOOOOooooooooo.......

On-Topic, that wasn't the way to voice his opinion. He got backlash due to the way he said it, more so I think then the fact he said it at all. Probably shouldn't fire him, but they should do something.

 

[Zetatrain]

i think sexism is wrong(and most -isms)

Judaism? Constructivism? Baptism? Atheism? Patriotism? Colloquialism? Heterosexism?

Definitely baptism. Seriously, is it actually in the Bible that we have to nearly drown our babies before god can see them?

Lol, if you're drowning the kids you're doing it wrong These days many churches get away with a dab of water on the forehead.

What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger

That's why I said "nearly". (smileyface here)

And anyway, a dab of water on the forehead is totally cheating, but then that's what I expect out of the religious these days.

From what I know, there is nothing in Christianity (at least in most denominations)that states Baptism has to be full submersion or even partial submersion. In fact many early Christians would just simply pour a little bit of water over the person's head.


Anyway, wow last week it was the whole TGWTG debacle that sort of revolved around sexism and now we have this.

On one hand I don't really think that the guy should have lost his job/internship over the comment. On the other hand I think the fact that he acted like a drunken dick after making the comment probably contributed to him getting fired. Seriously, when are people going to get that Twitter is anything but private.

As for the comment itself...well whether or not was trying to be a dick he definitely come off as one, at least IMO. Maybe he was genuinely curious about why Felicia is popular(though a simple Google search could have sufficed), but there are definitely better ways to phrase the question. The whole "glorified booth babe" part definitely came off as a bit sexist. Now asking someone if all the attention they receive is the result of their sex appeal is a legitimate question. However, the way he phrases it makes the question look more like an insult disguised as a question rather than an actual question.

In the end, this guy might not have generated as much hate if he hadn't continued to act like a massive prick and might have even kept his job.