The Fighting Game Problem?

[StriderShinryu]

While I'm not really a fan of limiting the options a player has when they are new to the game, I do think there's a lot to be said about teaching new players just how important their non-special moves are. A player who knows what they are doing but restricted them self to purely using normal moves will beat a player who relies on little more than their specials every time. It's just another way in which the vast majority of current fighting game tutorials don't teach the right things.

The main reason I don't play fighting games is because all the time it takes to get good. Plus, you also need a fighting stick. I also hate the fighting games where it's all about juggling and if a good player gets you in the air just once, the match is over.

I agree that juggle heavy games can be a tough slog, and I say that as a long time fan of the Tekken series. If you're just getting into the genre I would say it's probably best to avoid that time of game. As for sticks, though, you don't need one. Some of the best players in the world in a variety of fighting games don't use a stick. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you need a stick to play fighting games, it's all about what you're comfortable with.

What about the other issue? Fighting game fans who make it so the newcomers arn't allowed to play or feel welcome?

I think a lot of this perspective is just a misconception. Fighting game players generally play to win, sure, but that's the entire point of the genre. It's been part of the genre since the days when you tried to get better every match because losing literally meant you lost your quarters and had to go to the back of a sometimes very long line. Just because someone beats you doesn't mean that the player is treating you poorly. Of course, some players are just dicks but that true in any competitive game. The fact is, if you're willing to put in the time to actually learn the game and aren't just looking for shortcuts, most fighting game players are actually very interested in helping a new player out. After all, beating someone who doesn't know what they are doing may not be fun for the loser but it's not much fun for the winner either.

 

[Eve Charm]

Well to be honest, Devs need to do away with stuff like putting up in moves if up jumps. Also no "the pretzel" moves inputs. IT's stuff like that first where it's "oh your not going to buy a 200 dollar stick, don't bother then" Special moves, shouldn't be a pain in the ass to pull off. You put a wall on a new user even learning the essential basics of character not going to let people have a good time.

 

[gargantual]

What about the other issue? Fighting game fans who make it so the newcomers arn't allowed to play or feel welcome?

Yeah there can be dicks out there, i imagine its just to disrupt our focus. but once you get a hang of it, you'll see complainers in fighting games mad cause they lost. Some winners can be obnoxious, but thats when they're confident in winning. most pros Ive seen have silent pride, because you have to be on point more than other game genres. The margin of error is slim in fighters for everybody.

I've never met a fighting game fan who wanted my head for being new. Even on "newbie friendly sites" like Dustloop and SRK.

Oh seems I framed my response a bit poorly. Whups. I was typing spur of the moment, but I post with the assumption you've much experience under your belt. But yeah shooters dump on noobs, while fighters wait to see what you got. Almost a built in benefit of the doubt in human interaction, because they're playing a game where there's no constant respawns and where we have to be careful. Isnt it interesting how the certain game mechanics can slightly reinforce people's social behavior. And XBOX resorts to bans. No I say, the real arrogant preteen dickwads out there probably aren't play the games they SHOULD be playing right?! Hee Hee Hee.

Oh I miss the late 90's when people were playing Mortal Kombat Ultimate. It sounds regressive I know, but when we talkers had to 'walk the walk' w/o things like excessive camping or health regen, the community trash took care of itself mostly.

 

[RaikuFA]

While I'm not really a fan of limiting the options a player has when they are new to the game, I do think there's a lot to be said about teaching new players just how important their non-special moves are. A player who knows what they are doing but restricted them self to purely using normal moves will beat a player who relies on little more than their specials every time. It's just another way in which the vast majority of current fighting game tutorials don't teach the right things.

The main reason I don't play fighting games is because all the time it takes to get good. Plus, you also need a fighting stick. I also hate the fighting games where it's all about juggling and if a good player gets you in the air just once, the match is over.

I agree that juggle heavy games can be a tough slog, and I say that as a long time fan of the Tekken series. If you're just getting into the genre I would say it's probably best to avoid that time of game. As for sticks, though, you don't need one. Some of the best players in the world in a variety of fighting games don't use a stick. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you need a stick to play fighting games, it's all about what you're comfortable with.

What about the other issue? Fighting game fans who make it so the newcomers arn't allowed to play or feel welcome?

I think a lot of this perspective is just a misconception. Fighting game players generally play to win, sure, but that's the entire point of the genre. It's been part of the genre since the days when you tried to get better every match because losing literally meant you lost your quarters and had to go to the back of a sometimes very long line. Just because someone beats you doesn't mean that the player is treating you poorly. Of course, some players are just dicks but that true in any competitive game. The fact is, if you're willing to put in the time to actually learn the game and aren't just looking for shortcuts, most fighting game players are actually very interested in helping a new player out. After all, beating someone who doesn't know what they are doing may not be fun for the loser but it's not much fun for the winner either.

Or In my case, not being allowed to play at all. Their motto is "Win to play".

 

[Gankytim]

Fighting games, for me have always been about looking cool. Get Mortal Kombat going with a few friend, pick the characters with the flashiest move set like Reptile or Noob Saibot learn the characters and go nuts on eachother and make it as much of a visual spectacle as possible and I think fighting games really lend themselves to these types of players who want an impressive fight scene, you don't get to take your eyes off the action for one second or your cute little butt gets handed to you.

It's been like that with all the fighting games me and my friends play, SSFIV, MK, KOFXIII (my personal favourite), BlazBlue and SoulCal but none of us got into that high level strategic tournament level play, we all just want to look cool, granted we got into using fight sticks like all the pro's because they just feel better in the hand, plus the 360 controller is a great fucking gamepad but the D-Pad is horrible for fighting games. But that was just an issue of ease of use.

But when I think about how many hours we invested into our characters to learn them to get to the point where we were satisfied with how we looked on screen, I really do see their point in this episode, yes they should be better tutorialised for people like me and my friends who just want a visual spectacle out of them, fighting games really do take a lot of unneeded effort.

I'd never play tournament level fighting games, I don't play to win or lose I play to look cool doing it.

 

[Gankytim]

Or In my case, not being allowed to play at all. Their motto is "Win to play".

I've never experienced that, the competitive fighting game community has always struck me as trash talkers, that's it. They'll get up and they'll talk shit but they won't actually stop you from playing (more money in the pot, right?)

Granted they don't take shit, when an idiot like DSP runs his mouth a little too hard because he can't handle the heat then they throw him out.

But I'm just an observer, I never actually seriously thought about entering a tourney and I've never played a real high skilled pro.

 

[RaikuFA]

Or In my case, not being allowed to play at all. Their motto is "Win to play".

Do you mean a "King of the Hill" type of system which is regularly employed amongst my friends?
Basically, if you win, you keep the ontroller and the loser passes it to the next player. Eventually, you get your turn.
Is this what you mean?


On another note, I got to play J Stars Victory at my friend's house this weekend. He imported it. It was pretty fun and very newbie friendly (plays a lot like DBZ: Budokai Tenkaichi, Naruto, etc...). It's an arena fighter.

Also, pick Vegeta. He is easily the easiest to use/ win.

No, I mean if you lose and you're new, you're kicked out. Happened to me a few times trying out P4A. Also happened once to me at an arcade that I believe is closed down now.

 

[Sack of Cheese]

On another note, I got to play J Stars Victory at my friend's house this weekend. He imported it. It was pretty fun and very newbie friendly (plays a lot like DBZ: Budokai Tenkaichi, Naruto, etc...). It's an arena fighter.

Also, pick Vegeta. He is easily the easiest to use/ win.]

I prefer Goku, combo punch >> rush is my favourite. Add kamehameha if you have enough energy left after the attack.

 

[OldDirtyCrusty]

My problem with fighting games is that the time of brawlers is over. Sometimes a little spark like DD Neon rises up but that`s it. The closest and better known games to a brawlwer are Sleeping Dogs and the Arkham series now. I want more of that and i agree that i would love to see something like the raid as a game. It could work with a mix of Arkhams randomized fighting animations and Assasins Creeds action button (maybe two of them one for upside jumping/sliding, one for downside slides. Just skip the stupid press button to run and integrate attack button/movement combinations and done(daydreaming i know). I will never get the game designing choice to have an extra sprint button when it all can be done with a simple stick push. Feels like waste of options to me.