The Flash movie has a new director

[Dreph]

Dark moments are fine. The DCAU got dark - It arguably got darker then Dawn of Justice. But it's the universe that get's dark, not the heart of the heroes. And that makes a huge difference.

Sorry didn't mean imply darkness was a bad thing. Just trying to contrast what Flash would have to do to get anywhere near the DCEU range and end with a shot at arrow, because well the last season was bad.

Back to your main point I do agree there is a distinct difference between having heroes operating in and fighting against the darkness around them and the constant dour depression that the DCEU seems to enjoy throwing at its viewers. Honestly a lot of the best comics to come out of the former, but I can't really think of a good example of the latter.

Also why would you think that a host of alien invaders trying to blow up the earth in order to use it as a wormhole to genocide yet another species was dark. Wait... Never mind.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Batman V Superman wasn't as bad as the bandwagon makes it out to be. The biggest complaints that people have tend to be "It's not a Marvel movie" or "Lex, Batman and Doomsday are different". Suicide Squad looks like it'll be pretty entertaining.

I'm not particularly interested in rehashing the 'is it good or not' debate, but come on - Strawman much? Those are not the biggest complaints leveled at Dawn of Justice - That honor belongs to criticism about the abysmal tone of the movies, the soulless performance of several important characters, the nonsensical actions and motivations of characters (And the lack of a meaningful motivation for some), and the opinion that is was, from a technical standpoint, poorly acted, poorly directed, poorly written, and TERRIBLY edited.

Like I said, I'm not in the mood to argue any of those points right now, but I'd appreciate it if you at least gave us (The 'Haters') the courtesy of not being trivialized.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

Batman V Superman wasn't as bad as the bandwagon makes it out to be. The biggest complaints that people have tend to be "It's not a Marvel movie" or "Lex, Batman and Doomsday are different". Suicide Squad looks like it'll be pretty entertaining.

I'm not particularly interested in rehashing the 'is it good or not' debate, but come on - Strawman much? Those are not the biggest complaints leveled at Dawn of Justice - That honor belongs to criticism about the abysmal tone of the movies, the soulless performance of several important characters, the nonsensical actions and motivations of characters (And the lack of a meaningful motivation for some), and the opinion that is was, from a technical standpoint, poorly acted, poorly directed, poorly written, and TERRIBLY edited.

Like I said, I'm not in the mood to argue any of those points right now, but I'd appreciate it if you at least gave us (The 'Haters') the courtesy of not being trivialized.

No strawman, I've looked at plenty of reviews. I don't count criticisms like yours, considering that they're so fucking vague, and provide no insight as to what was actually wrong with the movie. You may as well be saying "It's bad because I don't like it".

It wasn't poorly acted.
-Jesse Eisenberg was a great Lex, his version of Lex Luther just removed the charisma, and replaced it with an eccentric personality. Literally everything else about his character stayed the same. His goals, his ambitions, etc.
-Ben Affleck was an AMAZING Batman. He was the first Batman that actually had a comic book esque build. Not to mention that it was really great to see Batman aged up a lot more.
-Henry Cavill was a decent Superman. About as good as anyone can expect. Though, a lot of this is probably attributed to the fact that he looks like Superman, rather than actual acting. Though my point is that he wasn't a bad actor.
-Wonder Woman, Lois Lane, Alfred, Martha Kent etc were all featured in the movie at most for about 10 minutes. None of the actors did a particularly bad job. Even if they did, that wouldn't impact the overall quality of the movie too much. Jeremy Irons was probably the worst in the movie, and it was odd seeing an Alfred who looks around the same age as Bruce Wayne.

The actions were NOT nonsensical and the motivations made sense... If you actually paid attention.
This tends to be the point which usually annoys me, because a lot of it usually comes down to the fact that you just didn't follow the movie very well. I'll go over a couple of points which I think you're talking about.

-Bruce Wayne's '1% certainty speech' was flawed. It was supposed to be. He ran along a similar line to Lex. He believed that no man could be all good, and he thought that Superman was an all powerful being, who held the entire fate of the planet in his hands. His experiences with the Joker and the death of Jason Todd made him jaded to human morality.
-This leads me into 'Martha'. Their mothers sharing the same name stopped the fight and destroyed Bruce's logic since he realized that Superman, a seemingly all powerful being, had come to Batman, a regular joe, for help. And not to mention, that seeing Lois Lane and hearing that Superman has a mother made him realize that he's pretty human afterall. Thus, Batman no longer needs to kill Superman.
-Superman attempted to admit he was wrong to Batman from the start of the fight. A lot of people question why he didn't filter his sentences down a lot more, but it's pretty difficult in the moment.
-Lex Luther's plan was to kill Superman. He did. After the kryptonite was stolen, he used the BvS fight to buy time while he used Zod's corpse to create Doomsday.
-Superman didn't save Lois Lane or Martha Kent from being kidnapped because he didn't know. Neither of them even screamed or anything for Superman to hear. He only knew where Lois was because she screamed bloody murder when she was falling from Lexcorp.
-Batman thought Wonder Woman was linked to Superman in some way. He was even direct about it, kind of why he sent her an email asking 'who are you'.

The tone of the movie was nice
-The movie industry is so saturated with comedy super hero movies lately that it was actually refreshing to have a dark and gritty Superhero movie again.
-This is what I'm talking about where people are complaining that it wasn't a Marvel movie. It wasn't a comedy, and it wasn't filled with a metric shit ton of Marvel oneliners.
-Everyone knew the tone of the movie before going to see it, so I don't get why you'd complain about it afterwards. That's like me going to see Deadpool and then complaining that he broke the fourth wall.

The writing was fine, aside from the arguable Lex Luther change. The directing and editing could have been better. Pretty much the only issue with the movie. They could have cut the time traveling Flash scene, as well as all of the Darkseid foreshadowing. But I'm glad they didn't. I liked seeing the Justice League build up, and all of the fight scenes with Batman were really great.

Frankly, all of the haters of the movie don't really deserve much. A lot of the arguments against it are dumb and stupid. If I'm summing up the criticisms in a couple of lines, it's because they're pretty shit.

No.

I said I didn't want to get into them, so I wont. If you want my in depth opinions, you can go to one of several dozen (Feels like hundreds) of Dawn of Justice threads on this forum, and I'm sure I've posted a book in it.

 

[Johnlives]

I wasn't paying enough attention, thought I was coming into a Flash Gordon thread. I'm very dissapointed.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Batman V Superman wasn't as bad as the bandwagon makes it out to be. The biggest complaints that people have tend to be "It's not a Marvel movie" or "Lex, Batman and Doomsday are different". Suicide Squad looks like it'll be pretty entertaining.

I'm not particularly interested in rehashing the 'is it good or not' debate, but come on - Strawman much? Those are not the biggest complaints leveled at Dawn of Justice - That honor belongs to criticism about the abysmal tone of the movies, the soulless performance of several important characters, the nonsensical actions and motivations of characters (And the lack of a meaningful motivation for some), and the opinion that is was, from a technical standpoint, poorly acted, poorly directed, poorly written, and TERRIBLY edited.

Like I said, I'm not in the mood to argue any of those points right now, but I'd appreciate it if you at least gave us (The 'Haters') the courtesy of not being trivialized.

No strawman, I've looked at plenty of reviews. I don't count criticisms like yours, considering that they're so fucking vague, and provide no insight as to what was actually wrong with the movie. You may as well be saying "It's bad because I don't like it".

It wasn't poorly acted.
-Jesse Eisenberg was a great Lex, his version of Lex Luther just removed the charisma, and replaced it with an eccentric personality. Literally everything else about his character stayed the same. His goals, his ambitions, etc.
-Ben Affleck was an AMAZING Batman. He was the first Batman that actually had a comic book esque build. Not to mention that it was really great to see Batman aged up a lot more.
-Henry Cavill was a decent Superman. About as good as anyone can expect. Though, a lot of this is probably attributed to the fact that he looks like Superman, rather than actual acting. Though my point is that he wasn't a bad actor.
-Wonder Woman, Lois Lane, Alfred, Martha Kent etc were all featured in the movie at most for about 10 minutes. None of the actors did a particularly bad job. Even if they did, that wouldn't impact the overall quality of the movie too much. Jeremy Irons was probably the worst in the movie, and it was odd seeing an Alfred who looks around the same age as Bruce Wayne.

The actions were NOT nonsensical and the motivations made sense... If you actually paid attention.
This tends to be the point which usually annoys me, because a lot of it usually comes down to the fact that you just didn't follow the movie very well. I'll go over a couple of points which I think you're talking about.

-Bruce Wayne's '1% certainty speech' was flawed. It was supposed to be. He ran along a similar line to Lex. He believed that no man could be all good, and he thought that Superman was an all powerful being, who held the entire fate of the planet in his hands. His experiences with the Joker and the death of Jason Todd made him jaded to human morality.
-This leads me into 'Martha'. Their mothers sharing the same name stopped the fight and destroyed Bruce's logic since he realized that Superman, a seemingly all powerful being, had come to Batman, a regular joe, for help. And not to mention, that seeing Lois Lane and hearing that Superman has a mother made him realize that he's pretty human afterall. Thus, Batman no longer needs to kill Superman.
-Superman attempted to admit he was wrong to Batman from the start of the fight. A lot of people question why he didn't filter his sentences down a lot more, but it's pretty difficult in the moment.
-Lex Luther's plan was to kill Superman. He did. After the kryptonite was stolen, he used the BvS fight to buy time while he used Zod's corpse to create Doomsday.
-Superman didn't save Lois Lane or Martha Kent from being kidnapped because he didn't know. Neither of them even screamed or anything for Superman to hear. He only knew where Lois was because she screamed bloody murder when she was falling from Lexcorp.
-Batman thought Wonder Woman was linked to Superman in some way. He was even direct about it, kind of why he sent her an email asking 'who are you'.

The tone of the movie was nice
-The movie industry is so saturated with comedy super hero movies lately that it was actually refreshing to have a dark and gritty Superhero movie again.
-This is what I'm talking about where people are complaining that it wasn't a Marvel movie. It wasn't a comedy, and it wasn't filled with a metric shit ton of Marvel oneliners.
-Everyone knew the tone of the movie before going to see it, so I don't get why you'd complain about it afterwards. That's like me going to see Deadpool and then complaining that he broke the fourth wall.

The writing was fine, aside from the arguable Lex Luther change. The directing and editing could have been better. Pretty much the only issue with the movie. They could have cut the time traveling Flash scene, as well as all of the Darkseid foreshadowing. But I'm glad they didn't. I liked seeing the Justice League build up, and all of the fight scenes with Batman were really great.

Frankly, all of the haters of the movie don't really deserve much. A lot of the arguments against it are dumb and stupid. If I'm summing up the criticisms in a couple of lines, it's because they're pretty shit.

No.

I said I didn't want to get into them, so I wont. If you want my in depth opinions, you can go to one of several dozen (Feels like hundreds) of Dawn of Justice threads on this forum, and I'm sure I've posted a book in it.

Then why even bother replying to my comment? lol.

I didn't want to argue over the finer points, it just pisses me off when someone trivilizes my position by strawmaning me.

If you want to disagree with me over the quality of the movie, fine. But don't tell me, the majority of movie critics, and a huge portion of the viewer base we're all just dumb Marvel loving sheep.

 

[Hawki]

I feel bad for the new director. He's the first to face the impossible - Making a movie about a character that already exist in the Arrowverse, under the DCEU's constraining 'If it makes us smile, it isn't getting put on the big screen' policy. It'll be an uphill battle to make something that's worth the time, when one could just go watch three The Flash episodes.

Remember my comment on a different thread when I used the Coke/Pepsi analogy to compare the MCU with Fox's X-Men?

Right now that sums up my thoughts on the DCEU and Arrowverse. Maybe no so much the Flash himself, but in terms of settings overall? I'm a sad panda.

I'm not particularly interested in rehashing the 'is it good or not' debate, but come on - Strawman much? Those are not the biggest complaints leveled at Dawn of Justice - That honor belongs to criticism about the abysmal tone of the movies, the soulless performance of several important characters, the nonsensical actions and motivations of characters (And the lack of a meaningful motivation for some), and the opinion that is was, from a technical standpoint, poorly acted, poorly directed, poorly written, and TERRIBLY edited.

Like I said, I'm not in the mood to argue any of those points right now, but I'd appreciate it if you at least gave us (The 'Haters') the courtesy of not being trivialized.

I'm not one to defend BvS (though while "bad," IMO, it's not nearly as bad as some claim), but while I agree with all of those points, I'm not sure if the movies' tone is a point of contention, at least for me. With Man of Steel, it worked, because of the overall story, and I can imagine it would fit Superman given the context of the film and his backstory - is it any surprise that he laughs when he flies for the first time, but nup, now he's got to save the world and do so by killing the last member of his race? Tone worked for that movie, if not for BvS, as the latter ended up with a tone that didn't allow for contrast between the characters.

Funnily enough, I have the opposite problem with the Arrowverse right now, in that The Arrow and The Flash still exist in the same setting, said setting striving for realism from the outset. Come Flash Season 1, that setting has metahumans, and a character that might as well make Ollie redundant. By the end of Season 3 of Arrow, I have a guy flying around like Iron Man (yes, different origins, you know what I mean), and The Flash proving at the end how redundant anyone without superpowers has become. It doesn't help that Season 3 is...iffy, in terms of overall quality, but I can't help but notice how out of place The Flash now feels in the setting, and from what I understand, now it's Arrow that feels like the fifth wheel to a universe that includes time travel, demons, alternate dimensions, and even more time travel.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I wasn't paying enough attention, thought I was coming into a Flash Gordon thread. I'm very dissapointed.

Flash! Ahhaah! He'll save every one of us!

 

[DefunctTheory]

I'm not particularly interested in rehashing the 'is it good or not' debate, but come on - Strawman much? Those are not the biggest complaints leveled at Dawn of Justice - That honor belongs to criticism about the abysmal tone of the movies, the soulless performance of several important characters, the nonsensical actions and motivations of characters (And the lack of a meaningful motivation for some), and the opinion that is was, from a technical standpoint, poorly acted, poorly directed, poorly written, and TERRIBLY edited.

Like I said, I'm not in the mood to argue any of those points right now, but I'd appreciate it if you at least gave us (The 'Haters') the courtesy of not being trivialized.

I'm not one to defend BvS (though while "bad," IMO, it's not nearly as bad as some claim), but while I agree with all of those points, I'm not sure if the movies' tone is a point of contention, at least for me. With Man of Steel, it worked, because of the overall story, and I can imagine it would fit Superman given the context of the film and his backstory - is it any surprise that he laughs when he flies for the first time, but nup, now he's got to save the world and do so by killing the last member of his race? Tone worked for that movie, if not for BvS, as the latter ended up with a tone that didn't allow for contrast between the characters.

As I said before, I'm not really down on getting in depth on Dawn of Justice, but I will agree - I think the tone worked with Man of Steel. I liked that movie actually, even though I recognize it as flawed (Perhaps heavily flawed). But my problem is that Superman's tone and characterizations just doesn't work well in a Justice League movie setting, for a variety of reasons that I think were pretty well shown in Dawn of Justice.

Superman's 'power level' is also, in my opinion, way off, for the same reason you criticize the DC Arrowverse (Which I guess is fair. To be honest, I stopped watching Arrow. Didn't like where it was going). It becomes increasingly hard to justify the existence of a lot of characters when you have one of the strongest versions of Superman running around, with all his powers on display. And it becomes doubly headache inducing when that super powered physical God is shown to be both 'realistic' enough to kill, and also capable of ejecting persons out into space on a whim. Seriously, how many Earth based villains are capable of dealing with that?

 

[Cicada 5]

Spoiler

Wait. This is the same Flash that's in the TV show, right? So... only fans of the TV show will be able to get what's going on?

And I thought Batman v. Superman had a problem trying to create a 'verse...

No, it's still a separate universes Flash. No hero as cheerful as the TV version of the Flash could ever possibly be allowed into the DCEU.

Which is saying a lot, since the flash show just got off a 15 episode mopey story arc.

I'm admittedly way behind on The Flash TV show, but presumably, he isn't interrogating criminals by barking questions through a haze of spittle as he gives them a Mach 2 road rash. Which is pretty much how I'm envisioning the DCEU Flash.

Tv Flash has killed at least two criminals and has an unregistered, private prison where he keeps his enemies without trial.

In addition, we've been promised since before BvS that the film's will have differing tones.

 

[rosac]

Funnily enough, I have the opposite problem with the Arrowverse right now, in that The Arrow and The Flash still exist in the same setting, said setting striving for realism from the outset. Come Flash Season 1, that setting has metahumans, and a character that might as well make Ollie redundant. By the end of Season 3 of Arrow, I have a guy flying around like Iron Man (yes, different origins, you know what I mean), and The Flash proving at the end how redundant anyone without superpowers has become. It doesn't help that Season 3 is...iffy, in terms of overall quality, but I can't help but notice how out of place The Flash now feels in the setting, and from what I understand, now it's Arrow that feels like the fifth wheel to a universe that includes time travel, demons, alternate dimensions, and even more time travel.

Arrow needs to get more personal villains but at the same time cut the soap opera. Clear aims would also be nice rather than... "Urm, yeah take over the city/make Olly my protege etc." But yeah, the flash being used as a deux ex machina in series 3 was ridiculous.