The Future Is Now - 5 Ways Fusion Will Change The World

Albino Boo

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Zontar said:
True but couldn't a more practical means of defending against small but fast travelling objects be to have a solar sail just ahead of any ship to turn small, fast travelling objects into plasma from the energy of hitting said sail, and have helium filled balloons around the ship create a magnetic field to deflect the plasma?

(on a side note, this is a pretty enjoyable topic to discuss)
The problem with a solar sail is that any impact would create a large hole in the sail. It would be better to use an angled ablative surface to provide a longer lasting protection. Electrical power not being a problem with fusion or antimatter engines you could easily use electromagnets to create a magnetic field. Electromagnets also have the advantage of being able to vary the magnetic field to steer things dynamically.

I agree this a fun topic for wild speculation.
 

John Markley

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Zontar said:
John Markley said:
Depends on the amount of mass you're accelerating and how efficiently your propulsion uses energy, but the short answer is: a lot. There was a study in the 1970s by scientists at the British Interplanetary Society into the idea of unmanned ships that could make one-way trips to nearby stars, propelled by fusion engines running on deuterium/helium-3 reactions. The design they came up with could reach 12% of lightspeed after about four years of acceleration. At launch, it would mass 54,000 metric tons- of which 50,000 would be fuel! That would be enough to get the other 4,000 tons to Alpha Centauri or Barnard's Star in only a few decades. (Though not enough to STOP once they got there...)
JESUS, a 25:1 fuel to mass ratio for a one way trip with only enough gas to get moving and come to a stop? Please for the love of god tell me someone found an alternative, more efficient means of moving stuff in space then fusion. I'm not letting the dream of humanity escaping this system die because of pesky physics.
Nope, no coming to a stop. That four 4,000 tons will keep careening along 12% of light speed forever. Luckily, there are other possibilities, yes.

One is simply to just go slower- on the time spans planets and stars live, it hardly matters if your journey takes decades or millennia. (Though that's problematic if you're carrying live humans, obviously.) You might use a fusion reactor to power some other form of propulsion like an ion engine, which accelerates at a much more leisurely pace but makes more efficient use of propellant mass.

Possibility two: Even better propulsion, either by producing a fusion drive better than the one imagined in the BPS study or by using some other, even more powerful method. You could, conceivably, use matter-antimatter annihilation to produce even more energy per gram of fuel than fusion, and either blow the product of that reaction out directly as exhaust or use it to propel some other reaction mass. Alternately, you could have a fusion drive that uses small quantities of antimatter to ignite a fusion reaction in pellets of fusion fuel.

(This may or may not be practically feasible, but then again it might be; it does not run into any hard-and-fast limits like the speed of light, at any rate.)

Possibility three: Don't take your means of propulsion with you, or at least not all of it. Equip the ship with a light sail, and propel it with a giant laser that stays in our own solar system. Would allow for a much smaller, easier-to-accelerate ship. You might even be able to use the laser back home to slow down at the destination, using multiple sails.

Downside: Depends on the folks back home being able and willing to keep the giant laser running for decades, centuries, or longer. So don't use if you're fleeing from some sort of impending apocalypse.

Also, as albino boo says, the sail would be vulnerable to impacts. I'm not sure about how large the holes would be, though; depending on the speed, what the sail is made of and how dense it, etc. matter impacting the sail might punch through it pretty cleanly and keep going, taking most of its kinetic energy with it, which would limit how much kinetic energy would be available to damage the sail. (Think of a gunshot wound- a bullet that simple passes through your body and keeps going more or less intact is usually less damaging than hollow-point round that expands and slows down inside you.) So you might have a gradual degradation over time, rather than a sudden catastrophe

Possibility four: Some currently unforeseen breakthrough that significantly changes our understanding of physics. I wouldn't bet on this, but can't rule out the possibility.
 
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P-89 Scorpion said:
gmaverick019 said:
while it's questionable if humankind will reach the point where we are colonizing planets in other galaxies before we kill ourselves somehow, I don't doubt that we will figure out a method of getting there quicker/more efficiently, look how much science (our understanding of at least) and technology has advanced in the past 30 years alone, we'll get there...

Oh what technological progress is that?

Manned rocket-powered aircraft - North American X-15 - 7,258 km/h - 3 Oct 1967 - 48 years ago

Manned air-breathing craft - Lockheed SR-71A Blackbird - 3,530 km/h - 28 Jul 1976 - 39 years ago

Manned spacecraft - Apollo 10 - 39,896 km/h - 26 May 1969 - 46 years ago

Unmanned vehicle - Helios 2 probe - 252,792 km/h - 17 Apr 1976 - 39 years ago

The internet, computers and mobile phones are all over 30 years old as well.
that was more of a spitball number based on general technology, not directly to spacecrafts, cell phones of today have more power and speed than voyager 1...which sure, isn't a direct correlation, but it is just a visual on how far we've come compared to the previous thousands of years in technology.

but if you want to be negative nancy and nitpick everything, then by all means, leave me out of it, I was just being slightly optimistic.
 

Albino Boo

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John Markley said:
Also, as albino boo says, the sail would be vulnerable to impacts. I'm not sure about how large the holes would be, though; depending on the speed, what the sail is made of and how dense it, etc. matter impacting the sail might punch through it pretty cleanly and keep going, taking most of its kinetic energy with it, which would limit how much kinetic energy would be available to damage the sail. (Think of a gunshot wound- a bullet that simple passes through your body and keeps going more or less intact is usually less damaging than hollow-point round that expands and slows down inside you.) So you might have a gradual degradation over time, rather than a sudden catastrophe
lets see an impact mass of 1 milligram

12% of the speed light = 35975095 m/s

ke =1/2 mv[sup]2[/sup]
ke =1/2 x0.00001 x 35975095[sup]2[/sup]=6471037301 joules


1 gram of tnt releases 4184 joules

So roughly, give or take, a 1 miligramm impact would be an energy release roughly the same as 1500kgs of tnt.

Edited for si units being wrong
 

The_Great_Galendo

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John Markley said:
Possibility three: Don't take your means of propulsion with you, or at least not all of it. Equip the ship with a light sail, and propel it with a giant laser that stays in our own solar system. Would allow for a much smaller, easier-to-accelerate ship. You might even be able to use the laser back home to slow down at the destination, using multiple sails.

Downside: Depends on the folks back home being able and willing to keep the giant laser running for decades, centuries, or longer. So don't use if you're fleeing from some sort of impending apocalypse.
Now this is a cool idea. I'm not sure about the effective range of a laser before you're too diffuse to be useful, but assuming that's not an issue.... You might not even need to keep the laser on all that long, either, at least if you were still willing to burn copious amounts of fuel. It's been a while since I did rocket propulsion calculations in physics class, but I remember that most of the fuel, proportionally, gets used up fighting your way out of the local gravity well. I don't know if the 50000 tons estimate was from Earth's surface or from, say, low Earth orbit, but I'll bet you could cut down that number dramatically if you didn't need to fire off the burners until you got beyond the orbit of Jupiter or Saturn.

In fact, if you were willing to wait a while, you probably wouldn't need the laser at all. Just set your sail and let the solar wind carry you the first leg of the journey.

The only immediate problem I'm seeing with this idea is that the original fuel calculations probably assumed a slingshot off of the sun and/or Jupiter, and I don't think you can slingshot off the sun with a light sail. Maybe that's where your laser comes in, for the original slingshot maneuver.
 

Albino Boo

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Corey Schaff said:
albino boo said:
lets see an impact mass of 1 milligram

12% of the speed light = 35975095 m/s

ke =1/2 mv[sup]2[/sup]
ke =1/2 x0.00001 x 35975095[sup]2[/sup]=6471037301 joules


1 gram of tnt releases 4184 joules

So roughly, give or take, a 1 miligramm impact would be an energy release roughly the same as 1500kgs of tnt.

Edited for si units being wrong
No chance we could harness the energy of impacts could we <.<?
I can't think of mechanism that would harness the energy.
 

Pinky's Brain

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Are there any calculations about the cost of fusion with these stellerators? They irradiate and destroy themselves rather fast after all (lets forget about the Helium 3 fairy tale for a moment). If it's not cheap enough it will change nothing.

In my opinion it's likely that in sunny climates PV will get cheap enough that you will be able to simply eat the round trip losses from thermal storage (ie. heat up concrete/rock, use with water and a turbine to regain electricity) and still be able to deliver electricity cheaper than any competitor most of the time (and for the remaining time you can simply run the turbines on gas). I base that on the curve of cost over time for PV BTW.
 

blackrave

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Zontar said:
albino boo said:
Zontar said:
albino boo said:
The problem is that you need reaction mass to shoot out the back to drive forward and that means having a huge amount of fuel to accelerate to the required velocity. Even if you used anti matter, with its 100% mass conversion to energy, to heat the plasma, you will still need the reaction mass to create the acceleration.
But is the ratio more reasonable then 25:1 for the fuel/everything else mass ratio for a trip?
Basically no. Using antimatter would like using petrol instead of coal a in steam engine. Its a higher density energy source but you are still heating the same amount of water. The big difference would be that you could use ordinary hydrogen instead of He3 and H2, massively reducing costs.
So unless we find a way to create stable wormholes or some other means of bending the laws of physics the only means of getting to another system would be using a 25:1 ratio of fuel to everything else ratio for trips that will hate 10 times as long in years as the distance is in light years.

Well, I guess we can always develop stasis or use embryos as the backbone of colonization efforts with a too small for subsistence crew for the trip.
To be fair that 25:1 ratio is not exactly fuel ratio, but reactive mass ratio
Well, what if we could not take reaction mass with us?
Zontar (and other people reading this) let me introduce you to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_vacuum_thruster
a propulsion method that doesn't require reactive mass
(well, it does, but it is capable to generate reactive mass during flight IF it's actually possible of course)