It's funny because Valve is getting all this crap for coming out with Left 4 Dead 2 a year after. Anywho, yeah this type of enviroment would defintely work for a bunch of games, maybe it would be interesting in a game like M.A.G. for the PS3.
The Future is Procedural
- Thread starter Shamus Young
- Start date
Wow, this tech is exactly the kind of thing I imagined in my head when I was coming up with a realistic Zombie Survival game. It was obvious to me that devs couldn't design all the building, interior and all, so I thought they would have to go the Diablo route. Randomly generated areas by attaching parts of the map to create a large terrain to explore. I also toyed around the idea of something like this, but thought the technology was still out of reach.
But I guess I'll now see it sooner than later.
But I guess I'll now see it sooner than later.
From my understanding, to get around that you can just save the affected environment explicitly (like in normal games.) Having a large amount of affected areas will eat up space, though.
yes basically - the world 'starts' as fully procedural, but as you go around affecting it (through destruction etc), the game just needs to save the changed pieces from that point onwards. Either way, the amount of saved info is still going to be dramatically lower than purely hand-made content.
This article (analyzing procedural content used in Oblivion) has a good breakdown. The same principles can be applied to Fallout3 as well:
http://www.combatspecops.com/xes
yes basically - the world 'starts' as fully procedural, but as you go around affecting it (through destruction etc), the game just needs to save the changed pieces from that point onwards. Either way, the amount of saved info is still going to be dramatically lower than purely hand-made content.
This article (analyzing procedural content used in Oblivion) has a good breakdown. The same principles can be applied to Fallout3 as well:
http://www.combatspecops.com/xes
Surely you could tweak areas of the procedurally-generated map to put in places of interest. In Fallout 4 you could level design all the human settlements, but leave the wasteland 'as is'.Shamus Young said:
I'm more interested in the prospect of applying this technique to generative narrative, so that you are free to play the game sandbox-style, but when you take on quests they always lead you into something which fits the all-encompassing theme and you yourself choose to complete the quest because it will advance your avatar's stats (RPG-style) which are the "points" of the game (thus allowing kills to be downplayed, removed or even 'inverted': i.e. you win the game point-wise by your heroic self-sacrifice. This is the source of the drama, not some noddy writer.
It won't take up that much hard disk space...
Foliage and objects only need to be generated and/or loaded at run time when the character is in a place he/she can observe the objects/foliage in question.
Specials can be set to preload into the terrain mesh in designated areas of the mesh...
The terrain mesh is procedurally subdivided into smaller zones and specials are simply stored as single objects that are loaded while the game is running. Additional instances of common objects like trees, bushes, grass patches, and rocks are created and scattered in a close zone at run time. When the player leaves that zone, the special objects are unloaded, and the common objects are simply deleted.
This leaves a much smaller footprint for the game. Requires less memory, requires less hard drive space to store terrain details.
Foliage and objects only need to be generated and/or loaded at run time when the character is in a place he/she can observe the objects/foliage in question.
Specials can be set to preload into the terrain mesh in designated areas of the mesh...
The terrain mesh is procedurally subdivided into smaller zones and specials are simply stored as single objects that are loaded while the game is running. Additional instances of common objects like trees, bushes, grass patches, and rocks are created and scattered in a close zone at run time. When the player leaves that zone, the special objects are unloaded, and the common objects are simply deleted.
This leaves a much smaller footprint for the game. Requires less memory, requires less hard drive space to store terrain details.
Great article Shamus. As always.
I've also been thinking about this kinda randomly. Anyone played Catan or Carcassone? I reckon something to do with tiles with unique items and places randomly assigned would be pretty sweet for RPGs.
Diablo 3's random encounter generator thing also sounds awesome. Given the option now I'd rather pay money for something that has near unlimited play options over something that is only 10 hours long.
And I think that once the base ideas are put down, procedurally generated content could be fairly powerful.
I've also been thinking about this kinda randomly. Anyone played Catan or Carcassone? I reckon something to do with tiles with unique items and places randomly assigned would be pretty sweet for RPGs.
Diablo 3's random encounter generator thing also sounds awesome. Given the option now I'd rather pay money for something that has near unlimited play options over something that is only 10 hours long.
And I think that once the base ideas are put down, procedurally generated content could be fairly powerful.
Procedural Generation done properly more accurately creates an environment than people ever can. Because the environment does not have thought behind itShamus Young said:
. I LOVE procedural generation, just wish it would be put into a game that isn't shite.I've only played SPORE so far.
Awesome board gamesMagus44 said:
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two great things about procedural content.
1. it adds to replayability when done well. I can't tell you how many times I played through spelunky's first level, and dying didnt feel like a punishment when I knew a whole new world was waiting for me next time I played.
2. There's more mystery in a proceduraly generated world. When I play through constructed levels, I look at everything thinking, "where am I supposed to go?" "what is this object supposed to be used for?" Whereas, when it's procedural, you get the more immersive experience of saying, "which way do I want to go?" and "Do you think this tool will come in handy?"
1. it adds to replayability when done well. I can't tell you how many times I played through spelunky's first level, and dying didnt feel like a punishment when I knew a whole new world was waiting for me next time I played.
2. There's more mystery in a proceduraly generated world. When I play through constructed levels, I look at everything thinking, "where am I supposed to go?" "what is this object supposed to be used for?" Whereas, when it's procedural, you get the more immersive experience of saying, "which way do I want to go?" and "Do you think this tool will come in handy?"
Guess what the huge flaw of FUEL turned out to be?Zwebbie said:
Radical new tech is one thing. Making an actual decent game is another. Nobody NEEDS a 14K km² world. It makes single player boring and multiplayer impossible.