VALVE will be the heralds of a new gaming age, as they can survive a crash and treat their customers fairly.
The Gaming Industry Needs To Die For It's Own Good.
- Thread starter Xanthious
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Sure smells like troll thread in here.
OP should either lurk moar or take his/her FAIL to /b/.
~TOM
OP should either lurk moar or take his/her FAIL to /b/.
~TOM
There are a few respectable Triple A companies left, but I think games are moving towards a more indie scene. What they sacrifice in big budgets and large teams they make up for in creativity and (when they do well) quality.
I'm thinking you are using the wrong word there, not 'die', more like 'gets its' head out of its' ass'.
Look, every single medium has gone through this and it's the gaming industry's turn. Soon or later they will get the picture and this will be all behind us, this isn't new or unique to games, and this certainly isn't going to change over night.
By 'die', that implication is killing off a medium and hurting creative visions that can only be possible for games. Yeah, it might create a new medium, but if that happens I'm sure we will be back at this juncture again. Games have grown in the past several years and has become more mainstream, and that argument of what gaming was like 10 years ago doesn't really hold up because gaming was not looked upon what it's like today.
But I would say change since it's becoming (slowly to be honest) clear that there are things that companies are doing that are pissing off the consumer. Unfortunately, the consumers are looked at as criminals because there are people that will pirate and use their product for their own benefit that hurts the company's bottom line. It's the way it is and I'm certainly not saying it's right, but it's the way it is for every industry, get over it.
For right now, the industry is doing alright, and I say alright because the economy is in the shitter and luxuries are going to suffer, and games are a luxury or expensive hobby if you will, since not a lot of people can afford such things at the moment.
As for AAA games, it's really because it's a safe bet to make. To a company, a new IP is extremely risky compared to an established IP, so it's not wonder there are a ton of sequels and not enough new IPs. Production costs are ridiculous to begin with, and so indie games are much more appealing to the developers that want to make those games but can't get someone like Sony or Activision to back them up. This is the same exact thing that happened to the music industry, outside of pirating, and you saw a lot of bands going to the internet and selling their music that way.
So give it time, this will all be over after this industry does some re-evaluating and evolve into something better.
Look, every single medium has gone through this and it's the gaming industry's turn. Soon or later they will get the picture and this will be all behind us, this isn't new or unique to games, and this certainly isn't going to change over night.
By 'die', that implication is killing off a medium and hurting creative visions that can only be possible for games. Yeah, it might create a new medium, but if that happens I'm sure we will be back at this juncture again. Games have grown in the past several years and has become more mainstream, and that argument of what gaming was like 10 years ago doesn't really hold up because gaming was not looked upon what it's like today.
But I would say change since it's becoming (slowly to be honest) clear that there are things that companies are doing that are pissing off the consumer. Unfortunately, the consumers are looked at as criminals because there are people that will pirate and use their product for their own benefit that hurts the company's bottom line. It's the way it is and I'm certainly not saying it's right, but it's the way it is for every industry, get over it.
For right now, the industry is doing alright, and I say alright because the economy is in the shitter and luxuries are going to suffer, and games are a luxury or expensive hobby if you will, since not a lot of people can afford such things at the moment.
As for AAA games, it's really because it's a safe bet to make. To a company, a new IP is extremely risky compared to an established IP, so it's not wonder there are a ton of sequels and not enough new IPs. Production costs are ridiculous to begin with, and so indie games are much more appealing to the developers that want to make those games but can't get someone like Sony or Activision to back them up. This is the same exact thing that happened to the music industry, outside of pirating, and you saw a lot of bands going to the internet and selling their music that way.
So give it time, this will all be over after this industry does some re-evaluating and evolve into something better.
...which will happen when we hit the graphics plateau. There is an entire other thread[footnote]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.312047-The-Graphics-Plateau-Where-do-we-go-next?page=1[/footnote] about that topic and how it would bring about pretty much what you are hoping for. So fuck it, gonna copy/paste what I just said in the other thread.Mad1Cow said:
From the other thread said:
I understand fully the implications of what I'm saying and what I'm saying is (to quote myself from an earlier thread) the video game industry in it's current form needs to die a quick and hopefully painful death. I have nothing but total and utter disdain for this industry anymore. It's all about how the publishers/developers can get every last penny out of our wallets while screwing us over as hard as they can legally get away with (and sometimes even illegally get away with). Just look around at some of the bullshit EA has tried to pull lately with the TOS of Origin (yeah you can monitor every file on my HDD when you get in line to kiss my ass).Iron Mal said:
The people in charge now care nothing for actual games and everything about profits and control. The people who actually care about gaming and the customers are being driven out of the industry like cockroaches running from light. Customers are treated like criminals and the actual criminals enjoy a better experience than the paying customers more times than not.
Again, I want the video game industry to fucking die, and die horribly. I want to see anyone who currently works in this disgrace of an industry unemployed. I have no use or sympathy for this industry and the sooner piracy and other factors drive more studios to close their doors and cause more people to be unemployed the better. This industry is corrupted from the ground up and if it is to ever be rebuilt into something palatable again this current incarnation needs to be burned to the ground leaving nothing remaining.
I stopped being a paying customer a long time ago. It will be a cold day in hell before any maker of video games sees a penny from me for a long time to come. I still play mind you, but I do so in ways where I milk Gamestop's return policy on used games on a weekly basis. In the past year and a half I've given Gamestop 50 dollars for a used title and have to date played most releases through to completion happy in the fact that none of my money is going to the parasites in charge of this industry while I enjoy their products legally for as close to free as makes no difference.
Wrapping this up I will say again that the video game industry needs to meet a quick death if only for it's own good. My only regret is that I am only one person and am unable to do more to hasten it's demise.
I don't see how the industry is circling the drain. The big publishers are getting to make new explorations in what they can do with their products i.e. motion controls cloud gaming etc. And at the same time there are many more indie developers that can more easily promote their games that are getting a lot of spotlight. Back in the 1980's when the crash happened that was because there was no way to tell what was good or not (no internet fewer game stores and magazines) today there are so many resources that the only place it can go is up. I think what you mean to say is some developers need to rework the way they do things like dlc and anti-piracy protection but as far as I am concerned the game industry is doing great. Ill be sitting here playing Minecraft while reading about some A+ titles that are going to come out soon while you rant on about how everything sucks. And I am not saying it is perfect but eventually something is going to change. It always does.
No, people just need to take responsibility for their purchases. Everything wrong with the industry can be traced back to a large amount of people saying "What a good idea!" and then paying for it. Thus, there is nothing wrong with the industry, as it's currently endorsed by the customers.
You want change? By indie games exclusively.
End of story.
Also, I think it's hilarious how one of the things "wrong" with the industry is how they're trying to get our money...
You want change? By indie games exclusively.
End of story.
Also, I think it's hilarious how one of the things "wrong" with the industry is how they're trying to get our money...
stop QQ try making even a simple flash game its hard so i can understand the purpose of dlc, with Dlc the can also push the release date up
Well thank God for that. If there's one good thing about overpopulation, it's that people with little frame of reference and "This idea is completely out of left field, so it must be valid" complexes do much less damage than they could otherwise.Xanthious said:
No one ever thought of pinning the rest of the blame on stock shareholders and investors? Last I heard they also threatened profit loss to Bobby Kotick if they don't implement so-and-so.
I don't really think you do possess a full understanding of what another crash would do to us (not even mentioning the fact that such an event is nowhere near happening and can't really be kick-started), like I said previousy, your envisioned 'restarting of the industry' is based on retrospective view of things that happened in a different time and based on completely different circumstances. Gaming was effectively a completely different thing then than it is today.Xanthious said:
Yes, there have been quite a few dick moves (we are in agreement that what EA did with Origin is just unacceptable) but this doesn't nessercarily mean that the whole industry is some great force of evil (I think you're being unreasonable and tending a bit towards an extremist outlook here).
Rather than trying to break it all down in the hopes that we can proverbially rise from the ashes we should insted put our time and energy into trying to mend to broken parts of what we have now (overall the games industry is doing pretty well and does have a lot of redeeming qualities).
It goes without saying that the CEO of a company (any company) is going to be more interested in the financial side of things rather than in anything else (that's what they do, they think of ways to improve profits), they often don't have anything to do with the actual making of the games themselves (that's something the developers more often than not have control over).
As for your notion of 'customers are treated like criminals' I have to again reiterate that the tightening of security is the result of changing times, piracy has become easier today because of the greater reach of the internet and the increased level of knowledge and competence the public have with computers (as well as a more informed public who know more about how and where they can pirate games).
In other words, the pirates get their games for free, the publishers and developers panic and try to stop them which just means that the legitimate customers suffer (whether they like to admit it or not, pirates do in fact have a harmful effect on the industry). To reverse this you should really be taking a stance against pirates (the ones who make such extreme measures sound nessercary in the first place).
Now you've gone from being concerned about the way things are being run to just being downright cruel and uncaring. Are you unemployed? Do you have a family to support? A house to pay rent on? Kids to get through school? Bills to pay?
Somehow I'm doubting that, otherwise you would know better than to so casually wish ruination and tragedy on people you don't know and who haven't done anything wrong (least of all to you).
Your actions (like I elaborated on earlier) are the sorts of things that fuel and motivate the ridiculous measures you rage against, in other words, you're fueling your own problem. You label the people in charge of the game industry 'parasites' when the way you conduct yourself (taking their products and not giving them anything in return) fits the definiton of 'parasitic' almost perfectly (yes, I'm calling you a hypocrite).
Wrapping this up I will again say that I believe that you don't really understand what the full implications of such a thing would be (and that your reasons for wishing this don't stand up to common sense and basic logic).
You seem to be overreacting a bit here, your tone is fairly alarmist.
Yes, the gaming industry has it's problems at the moment. But that doesn't mean the whole thing should be disposed of. Every system has problems, nothing is perfect, but you don't see any other industries self-imploding every time they run into an issue.
You don't wipe the whole board clean just because of a few problems. These problems came in incrementally and that's the way we have to solve them, like weight loss. Just nuking the entire playing field and going back to square one does nothing to help anybody, nor does it prevent these problems from coming back up again in the future.
Yes, the gaming industry has it's problems at the moment. But that doesn't mean the whole thing should be disposed of. Every system has problems, nothing is perfect, but you don't see any other industries self-imploding every time they run into an issue.
You don't wipe the whole board clean just because of a few problems. These problems came in incrementally and that's the way we have to solve them, like weight loss. Just nuking the entire playing field and going back to square one does nothing to help anybody, nor does it prevent these problems from coming back up again in the future.
I get the unsettling feeling Xanthious wrote this while building fruit basket bombs. Let's not do anything rash, okay buddy? The buyouts and moneydumps and sequel cash-ins are problems we've faced since the start, the inevitable result of success over decades. We all want to go back to the way things were, when game studios were just 8 or 12 developers making something out of nothing in a year's time or less... but we can't, that age has passed. Still, to bring everything to a halt isn't a conclusive thought, unless you are willing to trade some stagnation for total obliteration, which is a madman's philosophy.
Your heart is in the right place but you are refusing to look at this rationally.
Your heart is in the right place but you are refusing to look at this rationally.
No it doesn't. Good game are still being made. People are complaining that major companies are remaking the same games every year like COD but can you blame them when you are all going to keep buying it?
It does, huh?
I get it, I mean How dastardly it is that people try to make money for their work.
Truly these are dark times when obvious sellouts like Deus ex: human revolution get rave reviews based solely on the gaming experience.
Truly despicable that gamers are so much yearning for change that they respond positively to announcements by those Bethesda devils that skyrim will play radically differently than it's predecessors.
Utterly tragic that independent developers are slowly becoming the monetary giants they seek to overthrow
And, darkest of all, the absolute catastrophe that the hardcore group and the blasphemous "free Gamers" are cross contaminating, truly these are the end times for our poor art form
[/sarcasm]
Seriously, if you don't want to play the house rule, then find another house to play in
I get it, I mean How dastardly it is that people try to make money for their work.
Truly these are dark times when obvious sellouts like Deus ex: human revolution get rave reviews based solely on the gaming experience.
Truly despicable that gamers are so much yearning for change that they respond positively to announcements by those Bethesda devils that skyrim will play radically differently than it's predecessors.
Utterly tragic that independent developers are slowly becoming the monetary giants they seek to overthrow
And, darkest of all, the absolute catastrophe that the hardcore group and the blasphemous "free Gamers" are cross contaminating, truly these are the end times for our poor art form
[/sarcasm]
Seriously, if you don't want to play the house rule, then find another house to play in
Entertainment media is all about death and rebirth if you ask me. It always goes in cycles. The film industry is in the same cesspool of pandering shlock currently (see: Transformers). Sadly, the ones with the real power are the consumers, and if something works for the publishers, we're going to see more of the same. If you want to see change, you have to make it happen yourself. Don't like the assembly line of copy-pasted CoD clones coming out year after year? Don't buy them. Want to see more of a certain type of game? Demand it, and buy games that you do like and want to see more of. Have an original idea for a new style of gameplay? Take a whack at developing, but know that you're in for an uphill climb. It feels pretty bleak to me too, but with the emergence of dozens of indie developers we're seeing nowadays, I do feel rather optimistic. I think we're on the verge of seeing a major shift away from corporate-controlled gaming. We've all but reached the graphics plateau already. All that's left is to await games that are actually fun and memorable. And for humanity to evolve a bit faster, and learn to understand what really matters in a game.
Just my two cents though. I don't *want* to be a cynic, I really don't.
Just my two cents though. I don't *want* to be a cynic, I really don't.