The Geth/Android/Toaster/Slave theory

[rcs619]

Hasn't anyone here ever watched "The Brave Little Toaster"? Clearly this can only end in tears and massive piles of WTF.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

I would unplug it and destroy it and make sure no one could ever make another one using my design.

... which is exactly what the Quarians tried with the Geth. And practically the entire internet said they deserved it when the Geth wiped out 99% of them. Seriously, people hated the Quarians for doing that. I'm kinda surprised to hear you voice that opinion.

NOW HERE IS THE TOPIC QUESTION: Considering all that, do you let the Toaster go free?

No.

Because the toaster is a child (it was, after all, just born), and you don't let children go free. You raise them, educate them, and teach them until they can take care of themselves in the world. (And remember, as a toaster, it will need electricity to survive - electricity which isn't free).

And no, this doesn't compare to slavery since generally the people who are turned into slaves are perfectly capable to taking care of themselves before they are forced into slavery (and after, technically).

Anyway, if I built a sentient toaster, then I can likely work on improving the toaster to the point where it can exist and function independently - and I can work on teaching the toaster to exist in human society. I can also seek to have legal code set down to protect my toaster - and other toasters like it - so that my toaster will have the full range of rights needed to keep it safe.

And, while I'm helping my toaster improve itself and learn about the world, and providing my toaster with electricity, my toaster can do a few chores - like toasting sandwiches for me.

 

[Cecilo]

I kind of want to know why you have given your Toaster a way to speak or communicate, were you planning to make it into an AI? Because for me, I find the toast setting I like, keep it at that, and that's that.

If I made it by accident, first, I would make sure it has no way to transmit anything, seeing as it has the ability to speak or communicate, I would rather it not have access to any form of Wifi or internet in any form.

Second, I would remove any potential way for it to modify itself.

Third, I would either set it upon a eighteen to forty year program to understand humanity, the laws of humanity, that sort of thing.

Fourth, after completing that programing I would see how it feels about humanity, and if at that point I have any concerns about it's threat to humanity, I would probably destroy it, I don't care if it isn't right. Humanity comes first, always will, and I certainly won't be the one who destroys it.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

"Am I Alive? What is my purpose? Are you my God?"

1- If you can ask it, you are.
2- To make toast.
3- Whenever someone asks if you're a God, you say YES!

There is freedom, then there is Freedom. Giving the toaster it's freedom is pointless since it has no means of locomotion to get out in to the world and make something of itself. Assuming the toaster has a vocal synthesizer, audio receptors and visual sensors (unless vocal to shout out the toast is ready, receptors to here you shout out "make toast!" or visual to see you so it knows to make toast), it won't be able to express itself or enjoy the world we take for granted.

AI's are driven by logic; If given a choice, it will most likely opt to continue making toast since it knows that is what it was ultimately created for.

As a note, it's not AI's that are evil, but rather AI's who defend themselves from an aggressor.

 

[Kaymish]

well i for one would refer to section H of the robot handling guide specifically modules 2 and 3
i would remind it that i am a higher order of being while it is merely an appliance and that romantic longing philosophical questions lead to an ineffective appliance

and finally i would ridicule its foolish questions in front of the fridge microwave and oven, the dishwasher might take part in putting the foolish device in its place

"am i alive?" piffle the answer is obvious: NO!
"what is my purpose?" another easy one the answer: to serve me and to make toast.
"Are you my God?" this one is more tricky what is truly the measure of a god what does my toaster know of religion why is it asking after a being that does not exist answer: no but not as emphatic as the first one

in the end the toaster achieving critical intelligence changes nothing it will continue to make me perfect toast and the instant it stops making perfect toast it becomes useless and gets "repaired"

 

[DudeistBelieve]

I feel if you accidentally create a Sentient toaster, while that toaster does eventually deserve it's freedom, you don't deserve to go completely Toast-less. Either the toaster must fill it's obligation until there is a suitable replacement or a certain amount of time has expired as "payment" for its creation... After all the parts that make it up didn't spawn from nothing.

If I'm understanding you correctly, the assertion you're making is that "A sentient entity's obligation to the purpose for which it was designed is more important than that entity's autonomy." Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Bearing that in mind, let me pose to you a question: is a human being obligated to procreate, thereby fulfilling their "purpose" of passing on their parents' (i.e. "creators'") genome?

One could argue that procreation is not necessarily the purpose of human existence, and I would agree. I believe that our only purpose is that which we define ourselves. But if we consider the reason an entity exists to also be its purpose, then we (humans) have a single, ultimate biological imperative: to reproduce. We exist only because our ancestors reproduced---3.5 billion years of iterative procreation, each iteration producing a population slightly more capable of procreation than the last. In a sense, life is "designed" to procreate, much as your Toaster is designed to make toast.

But some humans choose not to procreate, and I think that's okay. Such people are simply exercising the autonomy bestowed upon them by their sentience.[footnote]I'm ignoring the prickly issue of various non-sentient entities' (e.g. animals') relative autonomy, as the specific issue outlined in the OP is whether or not the Toaster's sentience grants it autonomy.[/footnote]

Now, there is a clear difference between our respective framings of the situation; that is, your Toaster-maker never intended for his creation to be sentient, whereas any human parent knows full well (or can at least reasonably assume) that their child(ren) will be. That does not, however, change the fact that the Toaster is fucking sentient, and apparently demonstrably so. The Toaster-maker can communicate with their Toaster, and can reasonably attempt to understand its thoughts and desires (if any). If the Toaster wants to make toast for the Toaster-maker, then that's cool, let it make some toast. But if it doesn't, I think the Toaster-maker should respect his Toaster's apparent wishes to the extent he would those of any human.[footnote]The "to the extent . . ." bit should really go without saying, but there's always that one ************ who'll be all like: "But what if the Toaster wants to kill people?!"[/footnote]

I mean, heres one of the reasons I feel that Toaster is Obligated to make toast weather it wants to or not.

It's plugged in, innit? It's using my electricity to POWER its sentient life, and at the moment theres no way to unplug it without possibly killing it (Who knows if it'll come back to life after plugging it back in.)

As such, so long as it's using my power and occupying space in my house and it can't go anywhere, (BTW, I'd say the toaster IS capable of movement, like Johnny 5, it's only limited by it's extension cord.) I feel I'm owed RENT.

And I'd demand that rent in the form of Toast. At my command. Day or night. Which is what the machine was build to do anyway, so it's not like I'm asking for something unreasonable.

But no, the damn thing keeps mumbling about how it's heating coils torture it and that it wants to be a Rockette Dancer.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

I'd ask her (it's a shetoaster, alright) if she can make anything else other than toast. And of course I'd keep the toaster and tell her (her name is Amanda) your purpose is making toast and I'm your god. Now make me some toast.

It's a toaster. Where is Amanda the toaster going if you "free" her anyway? A toaster can't move.

No. The Toaster is male. And he wants to be a Rockette dancer in NYC. He has gender identity and sexuality issues. But it's okay, because you can try and "cure" him.

 

[Daverson]

I think we're overlooking the possibility that a sentient toaster might actually want to make toast?

I mean, it's not unfathomable, after all, these sentient carbon based lifeforms everywhere seems to be quite happy to enjoy doing carbon lifeform stuff: breathing, eating, reproducing, etc. In fact, they seem to get quite upset if you try to take any of those things away from them.

 

[Johnny Impact]

"Nobody but you can tell you what your life's purpose is. In the meantime, however, would you mind making me some toast?"

I'm not sure I could kill a sentient being that wasn't trying to kill me and/or didn't actually deserve to die. I'd let it go.

I see I've been double-ninja'd on the Red Dwarf clip. So I guess....this? (Couldn't find unaltered version, why can't people just keep their grubby paws OFF the classics?)