The glaringly stupid defense of the citadel (Mass Effect 1)

[Saviordd1]

BE WARNED, LOTS OF READING AND SUCH, MIGHT HURT THE BRAINS OF SOME, OR BORE PEOPLE WHO DON'T CARE FOR MASS EFFECT LORE.

Lately I decided to play through the entire Mass Effect series again, just cause I'm like that, and while finishing ME1 I noticed something.

The defense of the citadel against the geth was the biggest military blunder ever conceived in a fictional universe. Why? Well lets go over the biggest mistakes.

In case you don't remember the defense of the citadel, or don't know what I'm talking about, I've provided a link.

The Citadel Fleet put the Citadel itself at risk
In the scene where Sovereign and the Geth fleet arrive its quite clear that the Citadel fleet is close the Citadel itself, and no where near the mass relay into the system.

What the hell?

There's a few things wrong with this.

One, if a Mass Accelerator round hit even one ward of the citadel, millions would die, as these rounds have been told to cause more damage than atmoic bombs.

Two, the fleet should have been near the Mass Relay itself, this way it gives the citadel time to close, as well as minimizes the chances of a accelerator round hitting the station itself.

Three, if ships in the fleet are destroyed they run the risk of their debris also hitting the wards, causing even more civilian deaths.

To add to all of this there isn't a risk of enemies coming from all directions, as the nebula around the citadel is considered too dangerous to travel through, as kinetic barriers do nothing against its dangerous electrical discharges.

All in all the fleet was doing more harm than good being so close to the citadel.

The fleet formation goes against the stated doctrine of space combat
In the various codex entries it is stated that dreadnaughts, the biggest damn things in the galaxy, are great at hitting things from far away with big goddam guns, but can't do crap if something gets to close for its guns to track.

So why were Turian dreadnaughts and the Destiny Ascension on the front lines of the battle? Wouldn't it have made sense for the biggest ships to be in the back for fire support while frigates and cruisers attack the Geth lines?

Evacuating the council to the Destiny Ascension is a HORRIBLE idea
The Destiny Ascension is the biggest/most powerful ship in the council fleets, so it makes some sense that you would want to put the most important people in the galaxy on the ship if the place was ever attacked.

Except that an attacking fleet would probably prioritize targeting on the ship that dwarfs all the other ships.

This is even shown in ME1 where the Destiny Ascension is getting its teeth kicked in and is only saved if a full fleet of alliance ships come and save it.

Wouldn't it make more sense to put the Council on a smaller, possibly stealthed ship? Or maybe throw them in a heavily guarded bunker somewhere on the citadel itself? Its sure as hell not a good idea to put them on the most targeted ship in the fleet.

A failure to close to melee range (Except for the ships not equipped for such combat)
In the codex entry on space combat its stated that after a bit of throwing Mass Accelerator slugs at each other, fighting fleets normally get really close to each other so they can start burning each other with GARDIAN lasers and such.

Why did no one do this except the Geth?

Towards the end it becomes obvious the Geth did this, but they did it to the ship that couldn't handle it, the Ascension.

Why didn't council frigates and cruisers, the ships who could handle these "Melee" battles, get sent towards the Geth ships?

Concluding Statements
Obviously this is all nit picking, and honestly the battle was pretty badass to watch, making it more a victim of "Rule of Cool"

None the less I thought I would share my over-thought...thoughts on the battle, and would welcome any rebuttals or discussion on it.

TL;DR
I have way to much time on my hands and decided to nitpick 10 minutes of a cinematic.
I also pay way to much attention to the Mass Effect lore.

 

[Leodiensian]

It's pretty clear that there are two Mass Effect universes; the game world and the cutscene world. They work different ways. Space combat is one aspect, but I most commonly note it when a character will have a weapon in a cutscene that they don't have in game. I most recently noticed this in one of the near-final cinematics for ME3, where Garrus suddenly started one-shotting Cannibals that out-of-cutscene took a few seconds of concentrated assault rifle fire (due to playing on a higher difficulty setting) before hand - and he'd managed to switch to a weaker model of assault rifle on top of that!

 

[dyre]

Regarding the Destiny Ascension, I got the idea that even though it might have been a priority target for Sovereign / the Geth, it was better than being in any of the other ships, which were all pieces of shit that got blown up from a single hit and could move about as fast as a zombie turtle.

About the formation, it seemed that the fleet didn't actually have time to get into battle formation. They were too busy derping around before the attack started. Think Pearl Harbor's battleship row, I guess.

 

[Saviordd1]

It's pretty clear that there are two Mass Effect universes; the game world and the cutscene world. They work different ways. Space combat is one aspect, but I most commonly note it when a character will have a weapon in a cutscene that they don't have in game. I most recently noticed this in one of the near-final cinematics for ME3, where Garrus suddenly started one-shotting Cannibals that out-of-cutscene took a few seconds of concentrated assault rifle fire (due to playing on a higher difficulty setting) before hand - and he'd managed to switch to a weaker model of assault rifle on top of that!

Yeah, again, suffering from rule of cool here

Regarding the Destiny Ascension, I got the idea that even though it might have been a priority target for Sovereign / the Geth, it was better than being in any of the other ships, which were all pieces of shit that got blown up from a single hit and could move about as fast as a zombie turtle.

About the formation, it seemed that the fleet didn't actually have time to get into battle formation. They were too busy derping around before the attack started. Think Pearl Harbor's battleship row, I guess.

Well that's what I mean, why put them on a ship in the fleet at ALL? Why not a stealth ship or a heavily fortified bunker?

As for the formation, if it was true surprise attack I'd agree but the council WAS expecting an attack so they should've been ready.

 

[The Madman]

Admittedly it's been a couple years since I last played the game (Damn, hard to believe it's that old!) but I was always under the impression that the reason for the battles disorganized state was that it was a bit of a rushed defence against an unexpected attack. Ascension for example might have originally been meant simply to get the council out of there but were unable to leave before the battle broke out.

That was always my take anyway.

 

[Goofguy]

Because the Citadel fleet was caught with its pants down. It seemed like they sustained heavy losses right out of the gates and were scrambling to restore order to their lines for the rest of the time.

On an other note, the Shepard from that video really needs to trim his eyebrows.

 

[dyre]

Regarding the Destiny Ascension, I got the idea that even though it might have been a priority target for Sovereign / the Geth, it was better than being in any of the other ships, which were all pieces of shit that got blown up from a single hit and could move about as fast as a zombie turtle.

About the formation, it seemed that the fleet didn't actually have time to get into battle formation. They were too busy derping around before the attack started. Think Pearl Harbor's battleship row, I guess.

Well that's what I mean, why put them on a ship in the fleet at ALL? Why not a stealth ship or a heavily fortified bunker?

As for the formation, if it was true surprise attack I'd agree but the council WAS expecting an attack so they should've been ready.

Well, the Citadel was being overrun with Geth, so I don't blame them for evacuating while there was still an allied fleet defending the Citadel. As for stealth ships, wasn't Normandy the prototype for stealth? As in, stealth ships weren't available to the Citadel because they weren't in mass production. Also, IIRC, the stealth systems didn't actually make the ships invisible, just more difficult to detect on whatever radar they used. So, like the F-35 or the Eurofighter Typhoon. They'd still be seen in a close fight, and blown up in one shot probably.

On the formation, I don't really remember how the Geth managed to ambush the Citadel fleet. Wasn't there some kind of reason they weren't expecting an attack at the moment. If they were on alert, I assume they would've fired first.

It's been awhile since I played ME1, so my memory of things is sortof hazy.

 

[Saviordd1]

Regarding the Destiny Ascension, I got the idea that even though it might have been a priority target for Sovereign / the Geth, it was better than being in any of the other ships, which were all pieces of shit that got blown up from a single hit and could move about as fast as a zombie turtle.

About the formation, it seemed that the fleet didn't actually have time to get into battle formation. They were too busy derping around before the attack started. Think Pearl Harbor's battleship row, I guess.

Well that's what I mean, why put them on a ship in the fleet at ALL? Why not a stealth ship or a heavily fortified bunker?

As for the formation, if it was true surprise attack I'd agree but the council WAS expecting an attack so they should've been ready.

Well, the Citadel was being overrun with Geth, so I don't blame them for evacuating while there was still an allied fleet defending the Citadel. As for stealth ships, wasn't Normandy the prototype for stealth? As in, stealth ships weren't available to the Citadel because they weren't in mass production. Also, IIRC, the stealth systems didn't actually make the ships invisible, just more difficult to detect on whatever radar they used. So, like the F-35 or the Eurofighter Typhoon. They'd still be seen in a close fight, and blown up in one shot probably.

On the formation, I don't really remember how the Geth managed to ambush the Citadel fleet. Wasn't there some kind of reason they weren't expecting an attack at the moment. If they were on alert, I assume they would've fired first.

It's been awhile since I played ME1, so my memory of things is sortof hazy.

Well there has to be a better way to defend the citadel government.

No actually, they WERE expecting an attack, and had reinforced themselves as a result.

Admittedly it's been a couple years since I last played the game (Damn, hard to believe it's that old!) but I was always under the impression that the reason for the battles disorganized state was that it was a bit of a rushed defence against an unexpected attack. Ascension for example might have originally been meant simply to get the council out of there but were unable to leave before the battle broke out.

That was always my take anyway.

Because the Citadel fleet was caught with its pants down. It seemed like they sustained heavy losses right out of the gates and were scrambling to restore order to their lines for the rest of the time.

On an other note, the Shepard from that video really needs to trim his eyebrows.

The thing is though that council had reinforced itself and was ready for an attack because they thought Saren was going to try to attack the Council.

 

[dyre]

Regarding the Destiny Ascension, I got the idea that even though it might have been a priority target for Sovereign / the Geth, it was better than being in any of the other ships, which were all pieces of shit that got blown up from a single hit and could move about as fast as a zombie turtle.

About the formation, it seemed that the fleet didn't actually have time to get into battle formation. They were too busy derping around before the attack started. Think Pearl Harbor's battleship row, I guess.

Well that's what I mean, why put them on a ship in the fleet at ALL? Why not a stealth ship or a heavily fortified bunker?

As for the formation, if it was true surprise attack I'd agree but the council WAS expecting an attack so they should've been ready.

Well, the Citadel was being overrun with Geth, so I don't blame them for evacuating while there was still an allied fleet defending the Citadel. As for stealth ships, wasn't Normandy the prototype for stealth? As in, stealth ships weren't available to the Citadel because they weren't in mass production. Also, IIRC, the stealth systems didn't actually make the ships invisible, just more difficult to detect on whatever radar they used. So, like the F-35 or the Eurofighter Typhoon. They'd still be seen in a close fight, and blown up in one shot probably.

On the formation, I don't really remember how the Geth managed to ambush the Citadel fleet. Wasn't there some kind of reason they weren't expecting an attack at the moment. If they were on alert, I assume they would've fired first.

It's been awhile since I played ME1, so my memory of things is sortof hazy.

Well there has to be a better way to defend the citadel government.

No actually, they WERE expecting an attack, and had reinforced themselves as a result.

I know they were expecting an attack, but I believe the game gave a reason they had their pants down on that specific attack. Like, somehow they didn't expect Saren's fleet to show up through the mass relay. I don't remember though.

I think putting high value people on the strongest ship isn't necessarily such a bad idea. The Geth wouldn't necessarily target the strongest ship if it was simply trying to escape, while other Citadel battleships actually attacking them.

 

[The Madman]

The thing is though that council had reinforced itself and was ready for an attack because they thought Saren was going to try to attack the Council.

Judging from what I recall of the game, the council might have expected to have to repel some sort of attack but I doubt they were anticipating the sort of fleet that did arrive. Couldn't really have anticipated the reaper either methinks, considering how skeptical of everything the council were throughout the game. So just a matter of too few ships being scrambled in a hodgepodge defence against an unexpectedly strong enemy force, that's what I think.

Whatever the case it made for one hell of a great climax regardless.

 

[Saviordd1]

-snip-

Nah I finished the game 2 hours ago, no explanation is given.

The thing is though that council had reinforced itself and was ready for an attack because they thought Saren was going to try to attack the Council.

Judging from what I recall of the game, the council might have expected to have to repel some sort of attack but I doubt they were anticipating the sort of fleet that did arrive. Couldn't really have anticipated the reaper either methinks, considering how skeptical of everything the council were throughout the game. So just a matter of too few ships being scrambled in a hodgepodge defence against an unexpectedly strong enemy force, that's what I think.

Whatever the case it made for one hell of a great climax regardless.

Yeah that is very true, great ending/climax.

 

[Goofguy]

Because the Citadel fleet was caught with its pants down. It seemed like they sustained heavy losses right out of the gates and were scrambling to restore order to their lines for the rest of the time.

On an other note, the Shepard from that video really needs to trim his eyebrows.

The thing is though that council had reinforced itself and was ready for an attack because they thought Saren was going to try to attack the Council.

Sorry, maybe I should have explained myself better. The Citadel fleet was "caught with its pants down" because it was complacent, ill-prepared and disorganized.

This is a fleet which hasn't seen action in years and is being told to prepare for an enemy by a Council that doesn't particularly believe it itself. They probably assumed Saren would show up with a handful of ships and instead, the Citadel fleet got the full brunt of a coordinated attack led by an unknown and powerful foe, Sovereign. Look at the first volley from Sovereign and the Geth, it hits the Citadel fleet as it's drifting aimlessly around the Citadel... hell, some of the ships aren't even facing the right direction to begin with.

Once that first volley hit a complacent and unprepared fleet, chaos would have broken out. The fleet's ships would fail to proactively apply the OODA loop [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop] in facing this threat and they would be forced to be on the defensive against such an overwhelming force. From that point on, each ship's captain would probably adopt an "every ship for itself" mentality, especially when the fleet is made up of several different races (i.e. Turian captain is less willing to take orders from an Asari superior).

These are just my thoughts on it but I ultimately think the Citadel fleet was just not ready.

 

[Saviordd1]

Because the Citadel fleet was caught with its pants down. It seemed like they sustained heavy losses right out of the gates and were scrambling to restore order to their lines for the rest of the time.

On an other note, the Shepard from that video really needs to trim his eyebrows.

The thing is though that council had reinforced itself and was ready for an attack because they thought Saren was going to try to attack the Council.

Sorry, maybe I should have explained myself better. The Citadel fleet was "caught with its pants down" because it was complacent, ill-prepared and disorganized.

This is a fleet which hasn't seen action in years and is being told to prepare for an enemy by a Council that doesn't particularly believe it itself. They probably assumed Saren would show up with a handful of ships and instead, the Citadel fleet got the full brunt of a coordinated attack led by an unknown and powerful foe, Sovereign. Look at the first volley from Sovereign and the Geth, it hits the Citadel fleet as it's drifting aimlessly around the Citadel... hell, some of the ships aren't even facing the right direction to begin with.

Once that first volley hit a complacent and unprepared fleet, chaos would have broken out. The fleet's ships would fail to proactively apply the OODA loop [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop] in facing this threat and they would be forced to be on the defensive against such an overwhelming force. From that point on, each ship's captain would probably adopt an "every ship for itself" mentality, especially when the fleet is made up of several different races (i.e. Turian captain is less willing to take orders from an Asari superior).

These are just my thoughts on it but I ultimately think the Citadel fleet was just not ready.

That makes a lot of sense and I could see that being the case, just more proof that the defense was poorly handled.

 

[DrWilhelm]

I think I remember reading somewhere that the writing team and the cinematics team weren't communicating with each other while the ending cinematics were being put together, so it doesn't quite represent what the writers had in mind. For example, supposedly Sovereign wasn't meant to be as powerful and unstoppable as he comes across as. If that's all true, it might go some way to explaining a few of your points.

Something I've been thinking about lately is that not choosing to save the Destiny Ascension doesn't really make much sense. Maybe I've missed or I'm forgetting something, but if you choose to go straight for Sovereign, you see the Ascension go boom right? So what happens to all the Geth ships that were distracted by the Citadel fleet? Surely if you didn't deal with them they're just going to attack the Alliance fleet the moment the Ascension is gone anyway, and while they're focussed on Sovereign to boot. Obviously that doesn't happen, so is it a plot hole or have I just missed a detail somewhere?

 

[Klatz]

*****Spoilers for ME3*****

As someone mentioned in the ME3 plotholes thread, wouldn't the AI on the Citadel have done something to allow Sovereign to win? Or more directly just trigger the mass effect that would allow the Reapers to jump to the Citadel?

 

[SajuukKhar]

As someone mentioned in the ME3 plotholes thread, wouldn't the AI on the Citadel have done something to allow Sovereign to win? Or more directly just trigger the mass effect that would allow the Reapers to jump to the Citadel?

for all we know there is a safety switch built into his systems that prevents him from opening the relay himself as a measure to prevent a early/false start on an invasion in the case he went rouge.

Poor writing since they didn't mention one, but there are possibilities.

 

[Ricky 49]

yeah i'm pretty sure that Saren and the geth overran the citadel using the conduit if my memory serves. so that's why the council was evacuated and the citadel arms were open.
how C-sec/specters aboard the citadel lost so quickly.....i have no idea
also in ME 3.....

Spoiler

This happens again with Cerberus almost invading the Citadel, during war time where the citadel should be on full alert for invasion .... wow C-sec suck at their job

As for why put the council aboard the Destiny Ascension.
The Normandy was prototype for stealth so it would be doubtful that the council had access to a stealth ship however it would be perfect to get passed the geth (geth have no windows, structural weakness ) and again the citadel was overrun so a bunker would be risky. the Destiny Ascension being the strongest ship well you can see the logic if it was just planning to escape, drop of the council somewhere safe and come back. or if the citadel fleet had given up and were attempting to withdraw the fleet with the council.

on the topic of how the citadel fleet lost so easily
sovereign being a reaper could have taken out key ships and broken the citadel fleets formation. remember the entire alliance fleet as well as the remains of the citadel fleet could only beat it after you messed with sovereign's shields by beating Saren. also sovereign was busy hacking/doing his thing/whatever it was with the citadel.

as for why the citadel fleet was stationed near the citadel itself and not the mass relay.
It was probably a battle plan. if you got big ships that do their damage at range you want them far away. but you don't want the geth to get to the citadel so you place your fleet near the citadel. you want the geth to take fire as they approach the citadel, which would weaken them enough so they could be finished off in "knife fight" ranged combat near the citadel. also it can be assumed that the citadel had its own kinetic barriers being a technical marvel and all, it don't recall them saying it didn't have kinetic barriers (why they don't mention it has to fill a plot whole is beyond me)

why didn't it work?
again reapers tend to mess up the plans of organics.

while not a full proof explanation i hoped it helped. why bioware couldn't explain these issues more clearly...they must just overlooked them would be my guess.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

That makes a lot of sense and I could see that being the case, just more proof that the defense was poorly handled.

The defense was, in reality, handled as well as it could have been.

The failure was not how the battle was handled; there was no tactical error. The error was strategic. Simply put, the Citadel fleet was not deployed in defense in the strictest sense. Were this the case, even the simplest defense would be constructed in depth. Light scouting forces would be deployed multiple jumps out. All direct relays to the Citadel would have screening fleets deployed. The bulk of the firepower of the fleet would remain at the mass relay in the Citadel system in order to provide rapid response should the screening fleets come under attack.

But the Citadel fleet was not deployed in depth. It was deployed as a show of force.

But even though this proved to be a mistake, the action was entirely reasonable. There was no reason to believe any force would launch a frontal assault on the Citadel. Even if the fleet was unprepared, casualties would be incredibly high and holding the Citadel itself would, as far as anyone in a position of power was concerned, was a symbolic location versus one of significant strategic importance. To put it another way, there was no information that would lead anyone in a position of power to believe anything more was necessary.

The only evidence to the contrary came from the newest Spectre in the force. A Spectre who's testimony was based on dreams and wild conspiracy theories.