The Golden Years of Anime

[spartan231490]

The golden years are never behind any genre.

 

[sextus the crazy]

The way I see it, it's a combination of two things. The first is that in the 80's and 90's, very little of Japan's animation output was making it overseas, and most of what was was the absolute best.

'best' is overstating it a touch. 'most attuned to blow a teen males mind and make them think this is the best thing ever' is more accurate. Stuff like MD Geist is one of the worst animes I've ever seen, but its fondly remembered for its 80's sensibilities, gory battles and nihilistic 'hero'

The other thing is the moe explosion, which, while it has far from killed good anime, it has led to a drop in the kind of shows that made it popular in the west in the first place.

[sub][sub][sub][sub]As for the art styles, late 70's through the 80's 4 lyf [/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub]

Again, 'moe dominates all' is a misconception. Moe anime dont rate that well in japan. They do however, to repeat myself, laser-target a specific audience who can drop money on boxsets that cost peanuts to make.

Virgin-Fighter Mune-Chan might make little to no impact on the airwaves with only 500 fans, but if the producers know those 500 fans will lay down $500 for a complete boxset if they include a cd, art booklet and a replica of Mune-Chans battle bra, their golden.

I'll give you the first point, but I think with the second point you're the one who's laser targeting here. I'm not talking about Ecchi, I'm talking about shows like The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya and K-On. Not exactly niche stuff.

Just a parenthesis, everyone talks about Moe like it's the worst thing ever, but K-on is actually good and I liked Mitsudomoe too, usually the fan-base is what sucks.

LOGH

I have seen a lot of anime in my life, my top 5 is really solid. Logh is the only anime I know but haven't watched yet, I still have faith it might get into my top5.
I did watch the first episode already some time ago, but that's barely anything at all.

Well like I said, it hasn't necessarily killed good anime, just made the sort of stories that made anime popular in the west in the first place much, much less common. I haven't actually watched either of those series (I've seen parts of individual episodes, and what I've seen really didn't look all that bad), but I have seen their influence in other shows. They're kind of like the Watchmen to those other shows' Youngbloods, as other people have pointed out in the thread.

Edit: I'm talking about Haruhi and K-on here, never heard of Mitsudomoe before.

My biggest question is what's with all of the dislike towards moe?

It's not even a genre, it's a cutesy art-style. It's not like it kills creative quality.
Hell, Clannad and Puella Magi Madoka Magica are both moe and they're both excellent anime.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

The way I see it, it's a combination of two things. The first is that in the 80's and 90's, very little of Japan's animation output was making it overseas, and most of what was was the absolute best.

'best' is overstating it a touch. 'most attuned to blow a teen males mind and make them think this is the best thing ever' is more accurate. Stuff like MD Geist is one of the worst animes I've ever seen, but its fondly remembered for its 80's sensibilities, gory battles and nihilistic 'hero'

The other thing is the moe explosion, which, while it has far from killed good anime, it has led to a drop in the kind of shows that made it popular in the west in the first place.

[sub][sub][sub][sub]As for the art styles, late 70's through the 80's 4 lyf [/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub]

Again, 'moe dominates all' is a misconception. Moe anime dont rate that well in japan. They do however, to repeat myself, laser-target a specific audience who can drop money on boxsets that cost peanuts to make.

Virgin-Fighter Mune-Chan might make little to no impact on the airwaves with only 500 fans, but if the producers know those 500 fans will lay down $500 for a complete boxset if they include a cd, art booklet and a replica of Mune-Chans battle bra, their golden.

I'll give you the first point, but I think with the second point you're the one who's laser targeting here. I'm not talking about Ecchi, I'm talking about shows like The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya and K-On. Not exactly niche stuff.

Just a parenthesis, everyone talks about Moe like it's the worst thing ever, but K-on is actually good and I liked Mitsudomoe too, usually the fan-base is what sucks.

LOGH

I have seen a lot of anime in my life, my top 5 is really solid. Logh is the only anime I know but haven't watched yet, I still have faith it might get into my top5.
I did watch the first episode already some time ago, but that's barely anything at all.

Well like I said, it hasn't necessarily killed good anime, just made the sort of stories that made anime popular in the west in the first place much, much less common. I haven't actually watched either of those series (I've seen parts of individual episodes, and what I've seen really didn't look all that bad), but I have seen their influence in other shows. They're kind of like the Watchmen to those other shows' Youngbloods, as other people have pointed out in the thread.

Edit: I'm talking about Haruhi and K-on here, never heard of Mitsudomoe before.

My biggest question is what's with all of the dislike towards moe?

It's not even a genre, it's a cutesy art-style. It's not like it kills creative quality.
Hell, Clannad and Puella Magi Madoka Magica are both moe and they're both excellent anime.

Well, the art style is only a part of it. I can't remember the literal translation of the word (something like "to burn?") but in context it means "something cute that fans can obsess over." Which in practice means certain stereotypical character archetypes which mostly come off as creepy and fetishistic. It also tends to screw up characterization, since the characters fit into their little slots, each tailored to a certain fetish, rather than being actual characters designed for the piece.

 

[Navvan]

Even though I think it is in a bit of a rut right now I don't think the Golden years of anime are behind it. There are plenty of outstanding anime series and films coming out every year. There is just so much crap flooding the market that it gives the appearance of a downgrade in overall quality.

I honestly think that within the next 5-10 years a lot of the current trends shoehorning Moe and/or fan service in place of quality will end.

 

[Cecilthedarkknight_234]

Okay I really don't want to dive more into this thread until a few you evealuate my collection fist. I will engage in this debate after you do this one little job for me

Titles not shown are
Clannad/after story
ano-hana
Toradora Part II
Welcome to the Nhk
ikkitousen
Highurashi "when they cry"

 

[sextus the crazy]

The way I see it, it's a combination of two things. The first is that in the 80's and 90's, very little of Japan's animation output was making it overseas, and most of what was was the absolute best.

'best' is overstating it a touch. 'most attuned to blow a teen males mind and make them think this is the best thing ever' is more accurate. Stuff like MD Geist is one of the worst animes I've ever seen, but its fondly remembered for its 80's sensibilities, gory battles and nihilistic 'hero'

The other thing is the moe explosion, which, while it has far from killed good anime, it has led to a drop in the kind of shows that made it popular in the west in the first place.

[sub][sub][sub][sub]As for the art styles, late 70's through the 80's 4 lyf [/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub]

Again, 'moe dominates all' is a misconception. Moe anime dont rate that well in japan. They do however, to repeat myself, laser-target a specific audience who can drop money on boxsets that cost peanuts to make.

Virgin-Fighter Mune-Chan might make little to no impact on the airwaves with only 500 fans, but if the producers know those 500 fans will lay down $500 for a complete boxset if they include a cd, art booklet and a replica of Mune-Chans battle bra, their golden.

I'll give you the first point, but I think with the second point you're the one who's laser targeting here. I'm not talking about Ecchi, I'm talking about shows like The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya and K-On. Not exactly niche stuff.

Just a parenthesis, everyone talks about Moe like it's the worst thing ever, but K-on is actually good and I liked Mitsudomoe too, usually the fan-base is what sucks.

LOGH

I have seen a lot of anime in my life, my top 5 is really solid. Logh is the only anime I know but haven't watched yet, I still have faith it might get into my top5.
I did watch the first episode already some time ago, but that's barely anything at all.

Well like I said, it hasn't necessarily killed good anime, just made the sort of stories that made anime popular in the west in the first place much, much less common. I haven't actually watched either of those series (I've seen parts of individual episodes, and what I've seen really didn't look all that bad), but I have seen their influence in other shows. They're kind of like the Watchmen to those other shows' Youngbloods, as other people have pointed out in the thread.

Edit: I'm talking about Haruhi and K-on here, never heard of Mitsudomoe before.

My biggest question is what's with all of the dislike towards moe?

It's not even a genre, it's a cutesy art-style. It's not like it kills creative quality.
Hell, Clannad and Puella Magi Madoka Magica are both moe and they're both excellent anime.

Well, the art style is only a part of it. I can't remember the literal translation of the word (something like "to burn?") but in context it means "something cute that fans can obsess over." Which in practice means certain stereotypical character archetypes which mostly come off as creepy and fetishistic. It also tends to screw up characterization, since the characters fit into their little slots, each tailored to a certain fetish, rather than being actual characters designed for the piece.

haven't heard that one before, but it's not like harem and/or stereotyping series suddenly came about when Moe was invented. Shows with women/characters in general appealing to or fitting in a certain stereotype existed before. Really if anything, Anime's just moved away from large amounts of 90s style sex and violence and replaced it with panty shots and hot springs episodes. Although, those were around before coughevangelioncough.

 

[Barciad]

The Golden Age of Anime was from about 1998 to 2006. After that, they ran out of ideas. For me, the series that killed modern Anime stone dead was Gurren Lagann. Apart from being dreadful on every conceivable level, it was also incredibly popular to a point that baffled me. Yet what really got to me was knowing who made it. Gainax, the firm that almost single handedly invented modern anime. Their 90's run of four classic series might never be beaten. Nadia, Eva, Kare Kano, and FLCL set the tone on just what was possible.
After that, the company completely lost it. One crude tit fest after another, culminating in the atrocious 'Panty and Stocking'. Alas, it is better to put that all from you mind and remember the utterly awesome stuff that came out when times were good. 1999 being a particular sensational year.
Infinite Ryvius
Crest of the Stars
Now and then, Here and there
GTO
Kare Kano
2002 and 2006 weren't bad either:-
Haibane Renmei
Gundam Seed
Azumanga Daioh
Twelve Kingdoms
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Black Lagoon
Ouran

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Dragonball Z... for all the nostalgia I have for it (considering that alongside Pokemon and Digimon it was one of the three anime I actually watched as a child), it varies more wildly in quality than any other series I've watched. The two 'Mon shows are pretty terrible, but consistently so and they reach a level of being so bad that they're pretty enjoyable to watch regardless of that. DBZ has a ton of really good stuff, and then gets marred down by the sheer amount of padded filling they put in (which I've heard is actually less than the manga series had?) and the convoluted nature of how dying is a serious thing, but only sometimes when the plot dictates.

Have you watched season 3 of Digimon recently? Having watched the first two seasons again I realized just how much nostalgia went into my appreciation for them, but season 3 actually stood on it's own. I liked aspects of it more than I did when I was a kid.

Unfortunately I haven't seen that many anime from the "golden years". Cowboy Bebop (I thought it was overrated), Neon genesis Evangelion and Trigun (which I did like) are probably the only notable ones I've seen from around that period. Oh, and Monster. I lost interest in the genre for a while after having seen the same shounen or bad over the top comedies just being rehashed over and over again, but there's been a couple that caught me off guard. Baccanno!, Steins;Gate and Puella Magi were all pretty damn good. I may be forgetting some shows, but I think there was a significant lull in quality in the early 2000s when Naruto, Bleach, etc... dominated the scene. However my perception might be slightly jaded by the fact that that's all I was watching at that age

 

[shrekfan246]

Have you watched season 3 of Digimon recently? Having watched the first two seasons again I realized just how much nostalgia went into my appreciation for them, but season 3 actually stood on it's own. I liked aspects of it more than I did when I was a kid.

You're actually not the first person to say that to me...

I haven't, though I was planning on going through the first three seasons again at some point, since I never actually saw any of them in their entirety when they were first syndicated. Just gotta find the time...

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Have you watched season 3 of Digimon recently? Having watched the first two seasons again I realized just how much nostalgia went into my appreciation for them, but season 3 actually stood on it's own. I liked aspects of it more than I did when I was a kid.

You're actually not the first person to say that to me...

I haven't, though I was planning on going through the first three seasons again at some point, since I never actually saw any of them in their entirety when they were first syndicated. Just gotta find the time...

That's the reason I watched them again, never got a chance to see everything in sequence as a kid. In all honesty I would give season 2 a miss. It's got all of the schlock of the first season, but lacks the originality and charm. The third season is surprisingly serious and dark. Which makes sense as it was written by the same guy who did Serial Experiments: Lain.

I enjoyed the movie too, but I seem to be rather alone in that opinion. At the very least it was better than the first two seasons

 

[shrekfan246]

Have you watched season 3 of Digimon recently? Having watched the first two seasons again I realized just how much nostalgia went into my appreciation for them, but season 3 actually stood on it's own. I liked aspects of it more than I did when I was a kid.

You're actually not the first person to say that to me...

I haven't, though I was planning on going through the first three seasons again at some point, since I never actually saw any of them in their entirety when they were first syndicated. Just gotta find the time...

That's the reason I watched them again, never got a chance to see everything in sequence as a kid. In all honesty I would give season 2 a miss. It's got all of the schlock of the first season, but lacks the originality and charm. The third season is surprisingly serious and dark. Which makes sense as it was written by the same guy who did Serial Experiments: Lain.

I enjoyed the movie too, but I seem to be rather alone in that opinion. At the very least it was better than the first two seasons

I liked the movie(s)!

And I liked Season 2 for how ridiculous they bumped all the Digivolutions up with all the crazy DNA Digivolving and eggs and wacky insane stuff.

Besides, if I could sit through Black Rock Shooter! I can probably make it through Digimon. (Not that BRS was bad, but it was certainly... odd and paced in a very stilted manner.)

Trust me, I'm under no false delusions that the first two seasons of Digimon are actually good. XD It's just something my nostalgia demand I rewatch. It could very well end up like Sonic Adventure 2, where going back to it after all these years means I notice all of the bad things and they become too much for me to enjoy the good, but that's a chance I'm willing to take.

Also, Serial Experiments Lain was really good. Extremely bizarre and very existential, but really good.

 

[Lilani]

I sort of feel like anime hasn't been around long enough for there to be any distinct "golden years" yet. Anime as we know it has only been around since about the 80s, and for those of you who think anime now is freakier than it was back then...well, then I think you haven't done enough research just yet. If you think 80s anime is all Yu Yu Hakusho and Samurai Pizza Cats then you are sorely mistaken.

Depending on what you watch, anime back then was just as bogged down in tropes, formulas, and perverseness as it is now. There are definitely more genres, more marketing, and bigger budgets now, but tentacle porn didn't start with otakus and filler in the 80s is just as bad as filler today.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

I sort of feel like anime hasn't been around long enough for there to be any distinct "golden years" yet. Anime as we know it has only been around since about the 80s, and for those of you who think anime now is freakier than it was back then...well, then I think you haven't done enough research just yet. If you think 80s anime is all Yu Yu Hakusho and Samurai Pizza Cats then you are sorely mistaken.

Depending on what you watch, anime back then was just as bogged down in tropes, formulas, and perverseness as it is now. There are definitely more genres, more marketing, and bigger budgets now, but tentacle porn didn't start with otakus and filler in the 80s is just as bad as filler today.

Wait, what? Anime as we know it has been around since the 60's, when Osama Tezuka started producing animation inspired by the works of Walt Disney, with a few Japanese animated works actually predating his stuff by quite a bit. It's only been popular in the west since the 80's, but anime itself is much older.

 

[Julius Terrell]

Macross Plus, which he considers one of the greatest animated series of all time.

But that's wrong, the greatest animated series of all time is Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

You might call this "opinion", and that pretty much correct, but it is undeniable that no anime can ever have a story that can match the scope and plot of LoGH, it is the biggest AND the best an anime can ever get, it features not only space, the final frontier, but also how politics and strife is eternal, it even tackles the difference between democracy and monarchy and how what ultimately makes a government good are the people who run it and the people they govern.

And did I mention how realistic the characters in this show feel? Even the characters in this series that have the smallest roles have their own personalities, no one is placed on where they are or the sake of convenience, every one of them, whether they're good or bad, have a purpose.

LoGH is one of the few anime that still exists that makes anime WORTH DEFENDING(as a medium). It is undeniably the Citizen Kane of anime, and the closest thing to Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek if it ever had to feature war.

I'm just finishing this series and I have to agree with you. I have watched PLENTY of outstanding series over the years, but a lot these series tend to come from 80's and 90's. You have to do an increadible amount of digging to find shows like monster,Ergo Proxy,Paranoia Agent,Boogipop Phantom,Kikaider, and Fist of the North Star. Moe makes me ill and Fan service has it's place.

I get so sick and tired of every other show taking place in a school. I don't know what's the fascination with school. I just know that I tend to steer clear of most of these shows. I guess I just have an attraction to older titles in general. Some of the show I mentioned are quite recent, but that's how I feel.

I forgot to add Samaurai X OVAs and Grave of the Fireflies. If you can dismiss japanese anime after watching these two titles, you have no soul. I cried a lot watching both titles.

 

[uchytjes]

Okay, I may be a little biased here due to the fact that I only really got into anime in the past year, but some of the stuff made today is completely awesome. While the 90's are regarded as the golden age of anime, I do believe that we may be entering a new golden age currently. I'm not too up to date on anime before the year 2011 (I do know the big stuff) but I have to say that some of the stuff I've watched recently is pretty damn amazing.

For instance, lets take a recent offering from this past winter anime season: The Unlimited Hyoubu Kyosuke.

My god does the show SCREAM awesome. For instance, take the opening to the series:
(sorry for the bad quality, only copy on youtube )

Also, on the topic of the pandering: its kinda necessary. You see, anime companies make their money on merchandising and dvd sales. This is why we have the pandering: so that the most hard-core fans will always buy the stuff. Sure over the top pandering can result in TERRIBLE anime, but it can also result in some pretty nice ones too. lets not forget this scene: sure it is in bad taste, but as long as the rest of the anime follows suit, its perfectly fine.

 

[Casual Shinji]

This seems to be similar to the distaste people get when watching computerized special effects. Yes, the art looks different because
the technology is different. This doesn't make them worse animators in any sense, nor does it reduce the quality of the art. The fact that people prefer the art style of say trigun or cowboy bebop over lucky star does not make lucky star or post-90s animation worse. The 90s was only a golden age if you prefer older animation styles. Otherwise, there's just as much good stuff being pumped out today as there was in the 90s. And on the point the berserk movies, the fact that the development studio chose to use ugly 3D does not mean that all of modern animation is terrible. For every good hand-drawn anime of the 90s, there's plenty of stuff that looks like crap and/or doesn't hold up. Like the original Berserk anime.

Something is still lost due to digitizing everything. I understand that this is progress for the sake of convenience, since handpainted cells and backgrounds cost way more than simply doing it on the computer, but you still lose that grit.

And with Berserk it's not just the ghastly implemented CGI, everything really just looks way too clean for a medieval setting. I'm not a fan of the original anime series, but atleast there everything had a grime and a texture to it. Howl's Moving Castle had tons of CGI too, but it pulled it off seamlessly because time and effort was put into it.

Not all modern anime is terrible, but it does seem rather complacent. Content on staying where it is, not venturing outside its comfort zone.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Yea, there's not been many truly impressive animes since the 90's. Sure they still crop up from time to time. But 99% of animes that come out now are shitty Highschool power fantasies.

A lot of the greats from the 80's and 90's were made for the sake of being made. You just have to look at how much attention the animators paid to the background events and the small touches that made things like Akira and GitS such amazing works of art.

Or Jin-Roh, you forgot that one. I guess I'm a sucker for hand drawn cells, and even rotoscoping. (as an aside, I've never understood the disdain for rotoscoping. Like anything, if it is done well, it looks really good, see the opening credits for Cowboy Bebop the movie.)

 

[Casual Shinji]

Yea, there's not been many truly impressive animes since the 90's. Sure they still crop up from time to time. But 99% of animes that come out now are shitty Highschool power fantasies.

A lot of the greats from the 80's and 90's were made for the sake of being made. You just have to look at how much attention the animators paid to the background events and the small touches that made things like Akira and GitS such amazing works of art.

Or Jin-Roh, you forgot that one. I guess I'm a sucker for hand drawn cells, and even rotoscoping. (as an aside, I've never understood the disdain for rotoscoping. Like anything, if it is done well, it looks really good, see the opening credits for Cowboy Bebop the movie.)

Jin-Roh was I believe the very last anime drawn on cells before everything went completely digital.