The Great Debate
- Thread starter The Wooster
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Grey Carter said:
I see little problem with it. There are times you want to share a video on youtube for the video's contents.
The problem is there are viewers who take this whole trolling thing to far and have to start the, gay, rape, fag, ect ect ect comments to someone say showing a nice sunset. And honestly in America your freedom of speech is only gaurented in a public venue to be heard with politicans and if you slander, say something treasonous, or vulgarly insult someone you lose that "right" to the rights corasponding responcibilities.
If the internet held peoples free speech to what is really writen, most trolls would be banned from all forums after about three posts. But kids never want to follow the rules to the right. They just want the right with no holds barred.
If your so out of wack calling someones sunset video faggoty or whatever...make a video responce like most the people out there and allow it. But no one needs to allow you to crap all over their video just for your jollies.
Anyone that claims that youtube comments have no worth has never seen PBSIdea Channel, and is a significantly lesser person for it. Discussion can be good, and if Anita provided a link in the description of her videos to a forum where she could host the debate, that would solve the entire problem. She just wants a moderated forum, and that's understandable. However, there are people who would genuinely like to discuss her material, and while I know that Cory and Grey's job is to exaggerate for effect, it is mildly damaging to assume everyone who sees Anita's videos will respond with a "I hope you get raped." Making a video response is an option, but it is a drastically slower one, and I'd wager not a viable one for all people on youtube.
People angry about Anita Sarkeesian disabling comments because OH NOES IT STIFLES MY FREE SPEECH IF I CAN'T RESPOND TO IT OR DISAGREE are missing one huge point (whether deliberately or accidentally, I don't know):
You can still respond to it. You can still disagree. You can make a YouTube video response. You can make a blog post. You can comment in any one of the threads on major gaming sites about it. You just can't do it in her space. And as for the laughable claim that she's being hypocritical because "she claims to want to start a dialogue but then prevents it from happening," she's not preventing a thing! Look at us. Right here. This is part of the dialogue! Every comment thread, every video response, every tweet about her videos is the very dialogue she wanted to start!
It's an asinine argument that simply falls apart under logical scrutiny. If you disagree with her, great! Disagree all you want; there are plenty of spaces in which you can do that. But she is not obligated to provide you one.
You can still respond to it. You can still disagree. You can make a YouTube video response. You can make a blog post. You can comment in any one of the threads on major gaming sites about it. You just can't do it in her space. And as for the laughable claim that she's being hypocritical because "she claims to want to start a dialogue but then prevents it from happening," she's not preventing a thing! Look at us. Right here. This is part of the dialogue! Every comment thread, every video response, every tweet about her videos is the very dialogue she wanted to start!
It's an asinine argument that simply falls apart under logical scrutiny. If you disagree with her, great! Disagree all you want; there are plenty of spaces in which you can do that. But she is not obligated to provide you one.
Just because the soap company stopped putting out boxes for you to stand on, doesn't mean you can't find other boxes.
Does anyone still remember how this whole fiasco started?
She made some video (not nearly her fist; just another video in a long string of videos). Video got spread across 4chan. Tons of people posted countless sexist insults and death/rape threats in the comments. Every gaming news site wrote a story about the storm of rage and sexism in the youtube comments, spreading Anita's name throughout all of gaming culture.
She's a big name now not because of how good or bad her content is, not because she's a feminist, not because of the merit of her arguements, but because of youtube comment sections.
Personally, I'm glad that comments are disabled. Women and gaming can definitely be discussed, but youtube has already demonstrated that it can't have a mature conversation. If she comes up with a new video, discuss things then. Until then, everything to be said about Anita Sarkeesian has already been said. Let it fade away already.
She made some video (not nearly her fist; just another video in a long string of videos). Video got spread across 4chan. Tons of people posted countless sexist insults and death/rape threats in the comments. Every gaming news site wrote a story about the storm of rage and sexism in the youtube comments, spreading Anita's name throughout all of gaming culture.
She's a big name now not because of how good or bad her content is, not because she's a feminist, not because of the merit of her arguements, but because of youtube comment sections.
Personally, I'm glad that comments are disabled. Women and gaming can definitely be discussed, but youtube has already demonstrated that it can't have a mature conversation. If she comes up with a new video, discuss things then. Until then, everything to be said about Anita Sarkeesian has already been said. Let it fade away already.
While not strictly disagreeing, that's a shit argument. To say that she's is about as academic as anyone's ever gotten with video games is far from the truth. Especially when there are Universities filled with media studies students/professors doing plenty of academic study and publishing peer reviewed papers. There are people like Jesper Juul who could quite frankly run circles around her.Shamanic Rhythm said:
Let me fix that for ya:Prosis said:
She made some video (just another video in a long string of poorly researched of videos skewed to get the desired conclusion). She spread it across 4chan. She then allowed unedited public comment for the first time ever. Tons of 4channers posted countless sexist insults and death/rape threats in the comments as she intended. Every gaming news site wrote a story about the storm of rage and sexism in the youtube comments, spreading Anita's name throughout all of gaming culture as she intended. Then she made a butt load of money on her Kickstarter as she intended
She's a big name now not because of how bad or lazy her content is, not because she's walking stereotype of straw feminism, not because of the almost complete lack of merit of her arguements, but because she played 4chan, feminists, and white knights then laughed all the way to the bank.
I'm angry that comments are disabled. Women and gaming can definitely be discussed, but hiding behind censorship and your "right to control YOUR video" tells the world you think your arguments cannot stand up to criticism. Especially when it's her policy to delete any dissenting opinion her site too no matter how politely it is worded.
Thankfully this manipulative pseudofeminist has pretty much faded away. At least until she wants money again and taunts internet trolls.
One thing that I think a lot of people forget when preaching about the first amendment and trying to wow us with the evils of censorship is that our first amendment does NOT give you the right to be heard, it does NOT require people to listen to your opinions, and it most certainly does NOT give you the right to say anything you want anywhere you want without any form of consequence.
That aside, I am in complete agreement with Erin's views here. In order to have a reasoned discussion on the internet, you need moderation. YouTube does not have moderation in any real sense of the word and thus the comment section falls prey to adolescents (or at least those with the mind of one), tired cliches, unfunny jokes, and flat out, needlessly cruel remarks.
That aside, I am in complete agreement with Erin's views here. In order to have a reasoned discussion on the internet, you need moderation. YouTube does not have moderation in any real sense of the word and thus the comment section falls prey to adolescents (or at least those with the mind of one), tired cliches, unfunny jokes, and flat out, needlessly cruel remarks.
Did she play the system? Yep. And it totally sucks that she yanked the internet by their collective balls. But rage only furthers her influence.Shaitan051 said:
It doesn't matter what arguements she makes, or what arguements are made against her. As long as people continue to discuss her, she will still be at the forefront of gaming culture. Her arguements have already been broken down and destroyed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJeX6F-Q63I). But it doesn't matter if everything she says is false. It doesn't matter if her every arguement is turned around and crushed.
This is the internet. Traffic matters more than anything. Everyone hated Rebecca Black's "It's Friday". But she made millions, because they hated it. Everyone knows the Kardashians are worthless. But they are some of the richest celebrities, simply because people won't stop talking about them. Online, its not about logical arguements or discussions. It's all about Traffic.
Traffic = money. Traffic = popularity. Traffic = influence.
And every thread that discusses the stupidest things that Anita has recently done only sends more traffic to her videos and her websites.
So I'm glad comments are disabled. Comments enabled would only generate more people post RAGE, more people reading that RAGE and becoming sympathizers, and more traffic to her site.
We can't logically debate and discuss her out of gaming culture. If we truly want Anita gone, we have to quit talking about her.
BMW?... Big Metal... Wombat? Yeh, won't do that.Zachary Amaranth said:And the minute Youtube becomes free you will have a point.rembrandtqeinstein said:
Until then, you're not talking about a forum for free speech in the first place, so lolfreespeechandcensorshipclaims, I guess.
It's nice that you want some sort of platform for intelligent discussion, but trying to force it on Youtube is like trying to get a panda to mate with a BMW. Fruitless, and probably frustrating for the panda as well.
But fine, we'll play it your way. Part of freedom is freedom of determination. If we are talking a truly free forum (though we are not), then people should absolutely have the right, nay the obligation to determine the channels by which they are interacted with. Why do you oppose others' freedom, rembrandtqeinstein?
I honestly can't blame them for not wanting to be laughed at openly.1337mokro said:You have CLEARLY never wandered onto a Creationist channel have you?
Hello.John Funk said:
I think the distinction is that people want to address her directly, and hopefully get a response. Not saying they're entitled to it, but she does drop the "opening a dialogue" line, I think... in most videos of hers that I've seen. She's had youtube comments, twitter and her own website where comments have been moderated with the rules-of-conduct more-or-less being "agree with me or get deleted". The dialogue gets to happen(yay!...?) but it has to happen away from her, unless it's praise... in which case, it's welcome.
It's her space, that's fair. The messages are a little mixed though, and dialogue between people who all agree is of questionable worth.
Love Panda.
You know the weird thing is, if I uploaded a video to YouTube, it would be for the soul purpose of using it as the most convenient hosting point and I'd turn off the comments too.
captcha: extra cheese
captcha: extra cheese
No, she's... fostering a discussion. She's just not obligated to make that discussion happen on her front yard / invite the sort of DELIGHTFUL DISCOURSE and by that I mean rape threats and misogyny that YouTube invites.Father Time said:
You have no leg to stand on. She is fostering a discussion. Criticizing her for disabling YouTube comments is just another way to try and get around the fact that they don't like a woman having an opinion that MAYBE their cherished things aren't all great.
...she is fostering discussion by providing examples and an argument that can then spur discussion on any number of websites. She is starting a discussion with her videos and inviting others to continue it.Father Time said:
Do you remember what happened the last time she enabled comments [http://i.imgur.com/h0Nr2JD.jpg]? Gee, I can't imagine why she wouldn't want to invite that sort of experience again.
What you are saying is that she must open herself up to relentless abuse and threats on her own channel or else she is somehow less deserving of expressing an opinion. That says far more about you being a sexist than I ever could, and I'm done wasting my breath on you.