The Guide to Creating Achievements

[Atmos Duality]

Rule ALPHA:
*breathes*
-STOP PUTTING FUCKING SPOILERS IN THE ACHIEVEMENT DESCRIPTIONS, FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

*glares at Saints Row 4*

- Get max punctuation at the horse archery range
- Get max punctuation at the slingshot range
- Get max punctuation at the bow range

The Gerudo Thieves think they're hot stuff, well, wait until I steal all of their periods, exclamation points and question marks! They won't even be able to call for help! Bwahahahaha!

 

[Qvar]

Don't do them all, my opinion. Lots of games got slightly ruined for me by achievements.

Oh I don't. Mostly because I'm pissed off by them exactly for the shown reasons. I used to play my N64 games to exhaustion, but PC games this days? I only have 2 game swith all the achievements (3 if we count Skyrim becvause I don't have the DLCs), and one of them is 4 hours long.

The worst offenders for me in terms of achievements are the ones that require you to to restart the entire playthrough if you miss ONE thing, examples of this are the "Chatterbox" (Tomb Raider 2013) "All conversations with the Endurance crew completed.", as well as "Conversationalist" (Assassin's Creed) "Go through every dialog with Lucy.", these just suck.

I was actually thinking about that too when I wrote #9. Anyway, achievements for that kind of thing are just... Stupid and empty to begin with.

and that they are potential spoilers if you check an achievements list (and if they are hidden on my list, then I can still get them spoiled by viewing a friend's list).
"Achievement: Obtain the Master Sword? So there is a Master Sword in this game." Having an achievement for a plot twist basically spoils the plot twist, either by spelling out what the twist is or preparing me for the fact that there is a plot twist by having an achievement with vague text lurking about.

Having said that, achievements have the potential of giving clues to secrets in the game that the player would otherwise miss completely. I am not sure on how to balance this with my previous point though.

Of course. I was listing the requirements to get the achievements, not the actual title. It's a difficult matter because many times the names of the achievements are welcomed geek-culture references or in-jokes. I wouldn't push for standarize them all to "Complete the game" and a dull icon. Yet you need something that won't spoil who the big bad is to use as icon, as well as a achievement name that will make sense once after you know who is it.

I think those are really a way of the publisher collecting metrics rather than actually congratulating the player on turning on the game - it gives them data on how many people started the game (and given how many people don't finish games, that matters)

So are you saying that have spent several years making a (hopefully) very entertaining game, with coding and all that stuff that I couldn't learn in 100 years, are unable to know who started their game unless they give me an achievement for it? Wow.

You're one of hundreds of thousands paying for a game. They really don't care what you like either. It's unfortunate, to be sure, but at the same time, unless you completely stop buying all games with achievements you don't like (and everyone else does too), nothing is going to change at all.

But are you seriously going to stop buying games because of achievements? That's a really stupid way to miss out on great games.

Oh I'm not going to stop buying Portal 2 because the achievements sucks balls. But I may like it a bit less than Portal 1. I may give it a 9 instead of a 10 if I happen to go into metacritic after I've been angrily looking at the achievements list. I may tell my friend who coincidentally wants to buy one Portal game to try it out to get the first one (which coincidentally is cheaper).

I may show my restlessness to other people of the gaming community with a post, and some people, who initially didn't think much about it or thought they were alone, may agree. Suddenly you have a lot of angry peopel complaining about DLCs and naming EA worst compan... Oh wait that's another case.

Have you ever heard that phrase about how for every angry guy voicing it there are 10 who don't? This isn't much unlike politics. And while a politician would do wrong listening to the first angry guy who comes along, they would also do wrong thinking it's just one crazy dude so fuck him even if he is making reasonable claims.

 

[CloudAtlas]

Rule No 15: Give me the option to deactivate them. I don't want annoying popups of any kind while playing immersive story-based games.

 

[Raikas]

I think those are really a way of the publisher collecting metrics rather than actually congratulating the player on turning on the game - it gives them data on how many people started the game (and given how many people don't finish games, that matters)

So are you saying that have spent several years making a (hopefully) very entertaining game, with coding and all that stuff that I couldn't learn in 100 years, are unable to know who started their game unless they give me an achievement for it? Wow.

I believe it's specific to consoles, and may vary depending on the information-sharing agreements in specific countries, but in essence, yes.

 

[Bad Jim]

Let's see an example: The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time

- Obtain the master sword
- Beat the game
- Get max punctuation at the horse archery range
- Get max punctuation at the slingshot range
- Get max punctuation at the bow range
- Catch the special fish at the fishing pound
- Collect all the skulltulas
- Collect all the hearth containers
- Collect all the poes
- Obtain the Biggoron sword
- Obtain all the songs (if I recall correctly, there was one not necessary to finish the game).
- Obtain all the bottles
- Obtain the three godesses powers

AND THAT'S IT!

Why no achievement for doing a three heart run, or beating the master quest?

 

[Gxas]

snip

Oh come on... You're actually giving games worse ratings based on their achievements? Optional entities that have 0 impact on the game at all?

Jesus... I guess some people will always find plenty of ways to pick at games.

 

[COMaestro]

I will agree with the stupid "You started the game" trophy and definitely can get behind the "no multiplayer" trophies, as those are usually the one's I will not get in any given game. I can also agree on the grinding trophies, as they just force you to play a long time and not necessarily excel at the game and the "Die x number of times" which is pretty stupid and achieves nothing.

However, some of the others seem pretty nitpicky. For instance, I like having a trophy for every major boss battle or similar, because then if I'm browsing a friends trophy list and comparing games we are both playing, I can see how far he is in comparison to me. It lets me know what in the game I can talk to him about without spoiling things. If I'm further, then I know exactly where he's at. And if he's further through the game than I am, the trophies should be hidden, so nothing gets spoiled for me at all because all I would see is a black trophy with no name.

I don't see any reason there can't be 10 - 100 trophies for one game. Does it really matter to you if you get every trophy/achievement if you find some of them pointless and unnecessary? Shelve it when you are done with it and move onto the next game.

As well as achievements related to going down specific choice paths, for example if there are two choices and there is an achievement tied to each choice, those are bad achievements. For example, just look at the achievement list for "Spec Ops: The Line", or imagine if there was an achievement tied to each ending in Mass Effect 3.

Also, games which have achievements such as "Collect X amount of Y", "Kill X amount of enemies", or "Do X, Y amount of times" MUST have a progress tracker, especially for collectibles so that I don't have to go back to one level or area looking for audio logs or dog tags or whatever.

I find the first part of your statement quoted here to just be an encouragement to play the game again but to see what lies down the alternate path. Besides, if you are just trying to get all achievements, most of these games you can just save, choose one and get the achievement, then reload and do the other option for the second achievement. A little annoying maybe, but not really hard. Unless that is the point of your argument.

Definitely agree with your second point though. I don't want to have to replay the whole freaking game in order to find one collectible I missed, so let me know what stage the thing I'm missing is in so I can just replay that.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

1 disagreement, to do with low scores. Sometimes they put in achievements as a badge of shame, for scoring incredibly low in something or failing an easy level or upskirting a character, and I'm fine with that. It's a bit of fun for the devs.

 

[Z of the Na'vi]

Rule No 15: Give me the option to deactivate them. I don't want annoying popups of any kind while playing immersive story-based games.

The option to turn off both the sound of an Achievement being "achieved" and the notification that pops up can be turned off in the Xbox 360 system settings.

I can't speak for the PS3, though.

 

[FPLOON]

Spoiler: In response to the OP numbered list

1. I agree 100%...
2. Yeah... we REALLY do not need redundancy in our achievements...
3. I agree 100%...
4. Eh... Those seem to exist just so that others can tell where you're currently are in said game... "Oh, you're passed X, but have not completed Y..."
5 and 6. ...In other words, no "Super Easy Mode" achievements or "Semi-Pointless" achievements... Only those that actually have some significance to the overall game... I can agree with that...
7. Okay... I can somewhat agree to that...
8. Eh... It better be possible and not just through random chance...
9. ...As long as those so-called "Easter Eggs" are not tied to the pending "100% Completion" achievement...
10. Yeah... and there should only be one of those and not broken up into "collected half of X/Y" achievements... (I believe they only have those achievements for those that never check their inventory and looking at the percentage of X and/or Y they have acquired so far...)
11. Those kind of achievements only work for difficulty and/or set requirements... other than that, NO! I will not play the same game X amount of times for a damn achievement...
12. Eh... I still think the max amount of achievements should be 25 or 30, but that works too...
13. ...That would explain some of them just having very corny titles instead... (or are just hidden until you unlock them...)
14. ...Those kind of achievements are just plain stupid... and are one of those that are just too broken to achieve in the first place...

OT: Damn right, achievements have gotten out of hand... Last year, I found out about why certain games just give you an achievement just by starting the game up for the first time... I still fell one of the bigger problems I have with achievements (besides multiplayer achievements) is the lack of choosing which ones to display and which ones to not display publicly off my PSN account...

However, apparently achievements have to follow a certain scoring guideline that, to me, seems kinda BS... But, whatever... As long as the achievement itself is acquired by some actual skill of the player and not just something that you get randomly or out-righted handed to you just to fill their "point quota" or something like that... or has anything to do with something that requires either online multiplayer and/or requires someone else to help you with obtaining this online-related achievement, then I'm totally fine with the achievements in question...

 

[Qvar]

Rule No 15: Give me the option to deactivate them. I don't want annoying popups of any kind while playing immersive story-based games.

Can't you deactivate it at the steam settings? Something like... "Enabling in-game community"

Why no achievement for doing a three heart run, or beating the master quest?

Are those some non-N64 options? As far as I'm aware you'll always get the hearth containers from the bosses. But yeah why not. Don't make a mountain out of an example as any other.

snip

Oh come on... You're actually giving games worse ratings based on their achievements? Optional entities that have 0 impact on the game at all?

Jesus... I guess some people will always find plenty of ways to pick at games.

Sigh. I've said that I may be subconsciuously influenced by the contrariety of such disappointing achievements to think slightly-not-as-highly about that given game, which is quite different to actively going to steam reviews and writting an angry one about how the achivements suck.

Thou I can write here about the collective experience of how achievements generally tend to suck. You don't care about achievements either be good or bad, very well. I used to care, which is a source of bitterness when I see the stupidity of the ones this days. Therefore I voice my opinions so that hopefully the industry will listen, find them reasonable and act in consequence. I don't hope they will listen because I'm threatening them, I hope they'll listen because obviously I think I'm right, otherwise I wouldn't be writting this.

And I will continually thinking so until somebody comes and convinces me of the contrary, which I'm open to, but sadly you're not the one going to manage that. I'm not going to buy that the ACHIEVEMENTS of the past, which ironically most of the time had no way to be proved, have been replaced by force with empty, stupid, pointless badges that show absolutely nothing. You've completed the game? Congratulations. Here's your +0'5% completion badge. Now go wear some purple pants to get another 0'5%.

BULLSHIT.

 

[Something Amyss]

Get rid of the ping in the corner and bring back unlockables like costumes, infinity sword +1, or new characters. I don't need an e-peen to brag to others, I don't care what they think. I want goodies to dick around with in game.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, though. People blame the lack of unlockable and the lack of cheats on acheivements, but games like Saints Row and GTA have demonstrated they're both possible with achievements/trophies.

Saints Row also demonstrated one of the other reasons we don't get as many unlockables: monetisation.

 

[Jaylo69]

im still of the opinion that achs should give out of game rewards - such as free games / exclu demos/ name on a board of fame etc / early beta access

 

[TehCookie]

Get rid of the ping in the corner and bring back unlockables like costumes, infinity sword +1, or new characters. I don't need an e-peen to brag to others, I don't care what they think. I want goodies to dick around with in game.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, though. People blame the lack of unlockable and the lack of cheats on acheivements, but games like Saints Row and GTA have demonstrated they're both possible with achievements/trophies.

Saints Row also demonstrated one of the other reasons we don't get as many unlockables: monetisation.

Why only settle for one improvement when you can have two? I'm not blaming the lack of unlockables on achievements, I'm blaming the gamerscore comparisons on achievements since I find it grating (mostly because I ignore it and according to other gamers I'm not suppose to). Unlockables are just fun to have.

 

[CloudAtlas]

Can't you deactivate it at the steam settings? Something like... "Enabling in-game community"

Yes, but I'd like to be able to deactivate them separately.

 

[Jmp_man]

(Sorry for the large post.)
IMO, Achievements are supposed to be there as an incentive for the player to try new things that are not neccessary to beat the game or force the player to adopt different tactics... building on your The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time example you could include:

1. Get the Fire Arrows
2. Complete Gerudo's Training Grounds
3. Get the Gold Scale
4. Plant all the Magic Beans
5. Collect the chickens in Kakariko Village
Etc...


You can see I have included ONLY achevements that would not be achieved by normal gameplay

Let me point out a few of yours for a second...

- Obtain the master sword
- Beat the game

These should be a given and not necessary to use as achevements (even if they are major turning points of the story we don't want stupid popups ruining the monent).

- Get max punctuation at the horse archery range
- Get max punctuation at the slingshot range
- Get max punctuation at the bow range

These achievements would be better served as: Get a highscore in [minigame]. Mostly because the Horse Archery is way, way, WAY too hard to get a max score on, and the slingshot is way too easy. It makes the achevements less daunting an it coincides with the top tier item that you would get from the game anyway.

- Collect all the skulltulas
- Collect all the hearth [sic] containers
- Collect all the poes

I hate collect-a-thons these are fine because they aren't necessary to the main game and give the player something fun to strive for. (Also all the poes souls can't be collected in this game... how about [Soul Trader - Sell a Poe's soul] instead?)

- Obtain the Biggoron sword
- Obtain all the songs (if I recall correctly, there was one not necessary to finish the game).
- Obtain all the bottles
- Obtain the three godesses powers

These are nice as well, something to force players off the beaten path and try something new. (BTW it was the Suns Song which reminds me... [Achevement: Freeze a Re-dead with the Suns Song]

TL;DR Achevements should not be tied into story elements but rather as incentive for the player to try something new that they would not have tried otherwise.

 

[Qvar]

1. Get the Fire Arrows
2. Complete Gerudo's Training Grounds
3. Get the Gold Scale
4. Plant all the Magic Beans
5. Collect the chickens in Kakariko Village
Etc...

You can see I have included ONLY achevements that would not be achieved by normal gameplay

Actually, no. I included the "get all the bottles", which implies that you've collected all the chickens in Kakariko, among others. Same goes for the gold scale one if I remember correctly, you have to get it before going for the special fish (the lure won't appear until then I think).

The fire and ice arrows, yeah, I thought of that too and now that you mention it I would include it. Discarded them at first because for some reason I thought they indeed were a must while a normal playthrough.

Let me point out a few of yours for a second...

- Obtain the master sword
- Beat the game

These should be a given and not necessary to use as achevements (even if they are major turning points of the story we don't want stupid popups ruining the monent).

I don't care about the master sword achievement tbh. I already expressed at the OP that the less, the better. It's just that I'm aware of how hard is for developers to let go their beloved achivement-minefields.

I do think that there should be one for finishing the game. It should be a given? Oh really? So you check a friends achievements list and you have absolutely no idea if he has beaten the whole game or not.

- Get max punctuation at the horse archery range
- Get max punctuation at the slingshot range
- Get max punctuation at the bow range

These achievements would be better served as: Get a highscore in [minigame]. Mostly because the Horse Archery is way, way, WAY too hard to get a max score on, and the slingshot is way too easy. It makes the achevements less daunting an it coincides with the top tier item that you would get from the game anyway.

I thought we were talking about actual achievements here, not lollypops for 11 years olds in order to get them happy with the game daddy just gifted them. Oh wait, I actually was 11 years old when I got the max score at the horse achery range.

(Also all the poes souls can't be collected in this game... how about [Soul Trader - Sell a Poe's soul] instead?)

What? You can. He gives you an extra empty bottle. Ofc I was refering to all the BIG poes. The ones that you have to shoot from horseback at the field. Not regular poes.

(BTW it was the Suns Song which reminds me... [Achevement: Freeze a Re-dead with the Suns Song]

TL;DR Achevements should not be tied into story elements but rather as incentive for the player to try something new that they would not have tried otherwise.

Yup although that one would make the "get all the songs" redundant. It would be either one or the other (which one I wouldn't care).

I do agree with the tl;dr.