The Guild Wars 2 Flood Begins.

[Berenzen]

Guild Wars is free to play right? Aside from the actual purchase of the game that is.

I believe the system is called Buy to Play. Anyway, yes there's no subscription fee, though there will be some cosmetic microtransactions.

I can't say I'm on the fence as I'll have to buy the game simply because I dumped 8k hours into GW1, it'll be a sentimentality puchase regardless.

However, I am not all all enthused about some of the design decisions, primarly the high level cap and the crafting that seems to be a more dumbed down TF2 system. I also expect an economy that's in even worse shape than Guild Wars was.

But yeah, still buying, still playing, at least until I reach level 40 and get bored. Always seems to happen with the level 50+ MMOs.

Yeah, the crafting isn't exactly brand new, it seems to be fairly samey to most others. As for the level cap, I really can't say I care because of the way that they've designed the game, with level 80 playing the same way that a level 10 does.

What I don't understand is why people keep saying this game is so revolutionary. It just looks like a polished MMO that does things differently. This is hardly the next EverQuest, is it?

The fact that it IS doing things differently is the revolutionary part. How many MMOs in recent times haven't just been WoW clones? By doing a whole bunch of things differently- if they do it successfully- it could have profound changes on the genre.

 

[Keava]

well I was looking forward to trying GW2, but it looks like it's got the point-and-click combat that I don't like. (I was expecting something more action oriented, like Vindictus)

hopefully there's some kind of demo

If You want spectacle fighter combat look towards TERA...or back at DCUO.

GW2 is mostly hotkey based with just addition of dodge that lets You get out of the way every now and then (don't recall the exact cooldown on it now). Problem with spectacle combat is that it doesn't really play well with such heavily competitive PvP oriented games, it's much more sensitive to latency variations.
With how big selling point of GW2 is the tournament system of structured PvP and World vs World vs World objective based massive (3 servers against each other) siege warfare You can't really have action-oriented combat.

 

[woodaba]

What I don't understand is why people keep saying this game is so revolutionary. It just looks like a polished MMO that does things differently. This is hardly the next EverQuest, is it?

The fact that it IS doing things differently is the revolutionary part. How many MMOs in recent times haven't just been WoW clones? By doing a whole bunch of things differently- if they do it successfully- it could have profound changes on the genre.

Its really a sad reflection on the state of the MMO market isn't it? Now I like a few WoW clones, SWTOR in particular being the most fun I've had in an MMO since Ultima Online. But, a genre that just imitates one game? Thats kinda terrible. Then, a (rather good-looking) game comes along, trumpets from the rooftops that it is making some changes to the MMO formula, and gathers a following which is kind of scary in its fanboyism and devotion.

Its sad.

 

[jpoon]

Looks excellent, I will be playing it the day of release so long as I am still walking this planet! Looks like it will blow SWToR out of the water (which is not a big accomplishment of course).

I absolutely love the ideas they are bringing, the whole no need for groups if you don't want them, sharing kills and nodes, dynamic quests and all. Great ideas, this game is going to be a good time.

 

[ResonanceSD]

No Monks!?!?!?

Oh well, another four years of Elementalist =D

 

[Berenzen]

What I don't understand is why people keep saying this game is so revolutionary. It just looks like a polished MMO that does things differently. This is hardly the next EverQuest, is it?

The fact that it IS doing things differently is the revolutionary part. How many MMOs in recent times haven't just been WoW clones? By doing a whole bunch of things differently- if they do it successfully- it could have profound changes on the genre.

Its really a sad reflection on the state of the MMO market isn't it? Now I like a few WoW clones, SWTOR in particular being the most fun I've had in an MMO since Ultima Online. But, a genre that just imitates one game? Thats kinda terrible. Then, a (rather good-looking) game comes along, trumpets from the rooftops that it is making some changes to the MMO formula, and gathers a following which is kind of scary in its fanboyism and devotion.

Its sad.

It goes beyond just the fact that it's making changes to the MMO formula. Sure, there are quite a few people that are intrigued by it, but I wouldn't call them the people who are super-hardcore fanboys about it. I am a pretty big fanboy for it- but I've played GW1 since launch, and seeing what they've done with that game has given me a lot of trust in Arenanet that they will do what they say they are going to do. The fact that they've been really open to the public about what they're doing helps as well.

 

[Keava]

What I don't understand is why people keep saying this game is so revolutionary. It just looks like a polished MMO that does things differently. This is hardly the next EverQuest, is it?

The fact that it IS doing things differently is the revolutionary part. How many MMOs in recent times haven't just been WoW clones? By doing a whole bunch of things differently- if they do it successfully- it could have profound changes on the genre.

Its really a sad reflection on the state of the MMO market isn't it? Now I like a few WoW clones, SWTOR in particular being the most fun I've had in an MMO since Ultima Online. But, a genre that just imitates one game? Thats kinda terrible. Then, a (rather good-looking) game comes along, trumpets from the rooftops that it is making some changes to the MMO formula, and gathers a following which is kind of scary in its fanboyism and devotion.

Its sad.

Can we really stop using the "WoW-clone" term? WoW was nothing more than iteration upon EQ.

The fact is, however, that since WoW release there has been very little in terms of that. Few games that tried to slightly alter the mechanics usually were troubled by lack of polish, bad launches or simply releasing unfinished products that should remain in production for at least 6 months more. The whole market moved towards risk-free, casual friendly, family fun. Just like every genre over last few years really, because that's where big piles of money were to be found.

Somewhere along the lines however was a little under appreciated gem called Guild Wars. It wasn't really popular because it wasn't a full MMO. It was heavily instanced, You pretty much played it solo for most of the time, had very structured questlines and lack of open world. What it had however was what was said on the tin - Guild Wars. Ever since Faction expansion the game was one of best competitive PvP multiplayer RPGs. It had Guild versus Guild system, tourney system, Alliance Battles, Hero Battles and Competitive Missions as well as Minigames. That's where the fan-base flourished, and that's why there were so many devotees of the title as soon as ArenaNet announced GW2.

Now GW2 pretty much makes the game into full MMO, with large, open locations, dynamic quest mechanism with failure/success actually affecting the event and pushing it either towards victory or complete defeat, which in turns may lead to player having to fight back for the zone, and of course competitive PvP in form of tourney system (hopefully with spectator system added post-release) plus massive siege warfare based on 3 teams, which is what MMO PvP scene had wet dreams about ever since DAoC became a bit dated.

While the game surely will have it's flaws (simplified crafting system, simplified skill system from the already known ones) it still is huge step if not forwards, then at least sideways from the post-EQ trend that strangles the MMO market for over 8 years now.
ToR sadly failed to bring anything new to the table, and actually, from my experience, it pushed the genre back with it's heavy use of instanced content and completely meaningless and unfinished PvP.

 

[GrandmaFunk]

I wouldn't read too much into the current state of the crafting system, it's the first time they included it in a build we've gotten to see because it's been extremely low on the list of priorities up to this point...as they finish polishing the more important parts of the game they'll keep reiterating on it to improve it.

as for claims that the combat system looks too simplistic/easy or that it's "tab+1+1+1+1+1": this is a demo build, which means difficulty has been ramped down, being played by inexperienced players controlling low level characters...of course they're just gonna walk up to a target and spam 1 till it's dead.

 

[zumbledum]

Can we really stop using the "WoW-clone" term? WoW was nothing more than iteration upon EQ.

no. as much as i loved EQ and know it deserves the credit its also a bit too insulting to it to label all the schlok weve had since as EQ clones.

wow was a dumbed casual version of EQ and everything since it has been cloning wow more than EQ... more is the pity.

Gw1 provided enough fun that 2 is a fairly sure thing to buy but i do have some massive reservations. this whole 5 abilities tied to your weapon seems to be extremely limiting and dull. and it does seem to have slipped all the way into the jrpg no bad thing intrinsically i just dont like em. mana pistols cute fluffy races and the rest of the wagon just dont do it for me

 

[EmperorSubcutaneous]

this whole 5 abilities tied to your weapon seems to be extremely limiting and dull.

Don't forget that you can swap between two weapon sets in combat, so you have 15+ abilities available to you at any given time. (The + is for the professions' unique abilities, like how an elementalist can't swap weapons in combat but they can swap between 4 elemental attunements, so they actually have 25 abilities they can use.)

And that's not counting environmental weapons that you can purchase, or find lying around, or acquire from other players through abilities. They change your first 5 abilities, just like swapping weapons does.

Also, you can modify your abilities significantly with traits, which further sets you apart from the others who play your profession.

 

[Frizzle]

What I don't understand is why people keep saying this game is so revolutionary. It just looks like a polished MMO that does things differently. This is hardly the next EverQuest, is it?

The fact that it IS doing things differently is the revolutionary part. How many MMOs in recent times haven't just been WoW clones? By doing a whole bunch of things differently- if they do it successfully- it could have profound changes on the genre.

Its really a sad reflection on the state of the MMO market isn't it? Now I like a few WoW clones, SWTOR in particular being the most fun I've had in an MMO since Ultima Online. But, a genre that just imitates one game? Thats kinda terrible. Then, a (rather good-looking) game comes along, trumpets from the rooftops that it is making some changes to the MMO formula, and gathers a following which is kind of scary in its fanboyism and devotion.

Its sad.

But aren't changes to the formula what we need? I for one was tired of not being able to do something because the "right people" weren't on when I was. No 'tank' or 'healer'? damn, guess we're stuck crafting today guys, or maybe some instanced pvp. Hey look I need to kill that huge monst-.... oh awesome some jackass just ran up and tagged it so I can't get credit.

The GW2 team is looking to put the MM back in MMO. It's no longer about trying to walk over others or get things done first so you don't have to wait for mobs to respawn. It's about getting in there and doing it because you'll reap rewards and get benefits just for helping, even if you don't need to do it.
It's about being able to play with whomever you want to play with, and in turn, those people being able to play the kind of character they WANT to play, without worrying about whether or not you can fill all of the classic 'roles'.

If they can pull it off, then it really will be a redefining of how the genera works. People actually playing together because they want to, not because they're forced to in order to get things done.

Can you play solo and do pretty much everything by yourself? Yes. Can you do ALL of it? No. But it's an MMO. If you want to do it all yourself, then go download skyrim.

I don't think it's sad. I think it's brilliant, and exactly what MMO's need. It's a nice kick to the nuts of the status quo, and I really honestly do hope it works out as they're planning. I can't wait for this game.

 

[beniki]

What I don't understand is why people keep saying this game is so revolutionary. It just looks like a polished MMO that does things differently. This is hardly the next EverQuest, is it?

The fact that it IS doing things differently is the revolutionary part. How many MMOs in recent times haven't just been WoW clones? By doing a whole bunch of things differently- if they do it successfully- it could have profound changes on the genre.

Its really a sad reflection on the state of the MMO market isn't it? Now I like a few WoW clones, SWTOR in particular being the most fun I've had in an MMO since Ultima Online. But, a genre that just imitates one game? Thats kinda terrible. Then, a (rather good-looking) game comes along, trumpets from the rooftops that it is making some changes to the MMO formula, and gathers a following which is kind of scary in its fanboyism and devotion.

Its sad.

You can say that about FPS games, RTS games, and, well, pretty much any other game. And really isn't all that true a statement. City of Heroes is different from WoW. Star Trek Online is different from WoW. Eve is in an entirely different league from WoW. Even the short lived Tabula Rasa and shorter lived Auto Assault were different from WoW, both in terms of game play and style. I think the only thing they shared was the questing system... which Guild Wars 2 has updated.

Sure there have been some disappointments, like Vanguard, or Warhammer (and to a lesser extent The Old Republic- the multiplayer dialogues make that game). But try not to be so cynical!

Besides, my own rabid fanboyism comes purely from the continuation of the Guild Wars story. It's the next chapter of Guild Wars! With steampunk! And bigger dragons!

 

[Upbeat Zombie]

I've heard that Guild Wars 2 is shaping up to be something very different a good from other mmo's. That and it wont have a subscription so I might actually give it a try.

 

[Berenzen]

Gw1 provided enough fun that 2 is a fairly sure thing to buy but i do have some massive reservations. this whole 5 abilities tied to your weapon seems to be extremely limiting and dull. and it does seem to have slipped all the way into the jrpg no bad thing intrinsically i just dont like em. mana pistols cute fluffy races and the rest of the wagon just dont do it for me

But look how is it different to other MMOs, where you just get a set couple of spells/attacks that you will use, and maybe only 5 or 6 of them will see any constant use by endgame. Yes in GW1 you could choose all 8 skills, but honestly, if you look at how it works out, it's a balancing nightmare, and usually people only take the meta builds from pvx. By linking abilities to weapons, people still get some customization while making it easier to balance the skills that people will be using the most.

With the other 5 skills- the healing, utility and elite skills- here seems to be quite a lot of them, we're just not getting the billions of combinations that we saw in GW1. I was bummed out a bit when I learned that skills were tied to weapons, but after looking at it- particularly from a design perspective- I can see why they did it. It's almost impossible to balance Guild Wars 1, no matter what change you make, someone can find some way to abuse it to the fullest extent.

 

[GrandmaFunk]

With the other 5 skills- the healing, utility and elite skills- here seems to be quite a lot of them, we're just not getting the billions of combinations that we saw in GW1. I was bummed out a bit when I learned that skills were tied to weapons, but after looking at it- particularly from a design perspective- I can see why they did it. It's almost impossible to balance Guild Wars 1, no matter what change you make, someone can find some way to abuse it to the fullest extent.

ya i had the same reaction at first...as an mtg player I had an appreciation for the fact that some skills in the game were simply bad, it was up to the players to realize which skills were bad and to not use them and which skill seemed bad on the surface but could be combined with other mechanics to actually be very useful.

they decided to take that away to streamline the process, making it harder to end up playing a completely ineffectual build...but given the trait system and the ability to swap weapon sets(and things like affinities and tool kits) there's still a huge amount of flexibility and creativity in how you build your character.

 

[Frizzle]

Has anyone been able to find video from the press beta of a Ranger doing something interesting (preferably pvp) that doesn't look like it's being controlled by a 1-handed blind man? I'd really like to find more stuff on this profession, but it seems people are only interested in mesmer....

 

[Dirty Apple]

I played a lot of GW1 and I always enjoyed it but I found chat spamming for trades a bit annoying. Is there gonna be an auction house or some other option?

 

[Berenzen]

I played a lot of GW1 and I always enjoyed it but I found chat spamming for trades a bit annoying. Is there gonna be an auction house or some other option?

Yep, you can both make petitions to buy and sell in the auction house. So if you want a +1 flaming sword of skrittslaying, you can ask for that in the auction house and someone can sell you it. Or, if you instead have a +1 icy sword of skrittslaying, or find the offer too cheap, you can sell/auction it off.

 

[WinkyTheGreat]

I've already got it pre-ordered and paid for. I've been ready for this game since it was announced