The Jungle Book (2016) - Should Baloo have won?

[thejboy88]

Spoilers below.

So, the Jungle Book. Loved it, thought it was a great update of the classic Disney film with some good effects, a stellar voice cast and a just general enjoyableness. However, while going through a number of people's comments about the film, there's one issue in particular that seems to tick people off about it:

"Baloo should have won the fight against Shere Khan."

Now, this is referring of course to the big climactic showdown between the film's antagonist, the vicious tiger, Shere Khan, and the forces of Mowgli and his animal allies, including Baloo the bear. Now, on a personal note, I loved that scene. It was dramatic in the right way, it was exciting, and to Baloo's credit here, he put up WAY more of a fight against Khan than Disney's first outing with this character back in the 60's.

But, I can definitely see where other fans have issue. Baloo, being a bear, is depicted here as being not only larger than Khan, but also, in some respects, a lot stronger too, managing to get in quite a few blows before the tiger ultimately got the edge over him. The argument from the fans is that, because of these advantages, Baloo should have won the fight easily, even taking into account the fact that this is not a character who probably gets into fights all that much.

As for me, I'm kind of on the fence on this one, as I can not only understand the complaints of the fans, but also see where the film was going. Having Baloo fall against this tiger shows just how powerful of a predator he is, and the kind of threat he'd be against a child like Mowgli.

So, that's the issue I'd like to discuss here. Should Baloo have won the fight, as some have said? Or was his defeat the more believable outcome?

 

[Saelune]

They should have just all swarmed him and been done with him long ago. I mean, it makes sense they dont in that people forget the power of...the people, but whatever.

 

[Kina]

Balloo should've sat down. No bear, albeit strong, will win over a tiger.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Well, I don't know what kind of bear he is. If he was a grizzly bear, sure, but there's various kinds of bears in the world, and I reckon not all of them are that strong or mobile a fighters. Plus, all Baloo does is lie around and eat, so I doubt he's very capable in a fight.

 

[Fox12]

I can sort of see why he lost. He's just a big loveable doofus that eats honey all day.

That said, I can't for the life of me figure out why they didn't swarm him. Bagheera and Balloo should have been able to take him easily. If you add the wolves and other animals then they could have swarmed him. Just let Baloo be the tank while the others strke a killing blow.

 

[Glongpre]

That said, I can't for the life of me figure out why they didn't swarm him. Bagheera and Balloo should have been able to take him easily. If you add the wolves and other animals then they could have swarmed him. Just let Baloo be the tank while the others strke a killing blow.

The same reason that 10 people won't jump on a knife wielding guy attacking someone. Fear, self-preservation, cowardice, etc.

And I think a tiger would be better 1v1 even against a bear, which though large and strong, don't really have experience killing big game(Do they catch deer?).
I mean, a bear would ***** slap, but a tiger would go straight for the throat.

There isn't really sense comparing real life to fiction (although it can be a fun mental exercise!)

 

[axlryder]

Brown Bears, more than most animals, have an incredible range of weights they're designed to span. This means that they're effective fighters at almost any naturally attainable weight, and how well they do against other animals depends largely on that weight.

Brown Bears are shockingly agile even at the largest sizes and are incredibly formidable predators. Their claws are both extremely sharp/long (longer than a tigers claws and teeth in fact), they have powerful shoulders which allows their paws to crush/cut just about anything (there have been several reports of them decapitating a charging moose), and their fur/fat is excellent protection against claws or piercing. Brown bears are also very aggressive and vicious (unlike black bears, who are babies). At parity, a tiger is still probably stronger because they edge out bears in terms of raw "damage potential". Give the bear 70-100 pounds on the tiger and you're going to see the tiger start doing far more poorly than most people realize. Even if the tiger were to make it to the bear's neck (bears tend to be very good at warding off frontal assaults, utilizing surprisingly sophisticated grappling techniques if its opponent does manage to penetrate its defenses), finding the jugular would prove very difficult, as a bear's neck is one of the most well protected parts of its body (recall that it must spar with other bears who would swipe at its neck with moose decapitating force), and a tiger's body is not designed to sustain the sorts of blows that a large brown bear could deliver from even a compromised position.

The issue is the the Himilayan brown bear is one of the smallest subspecies, putting it at around 350 pounds or so. The bengal tiger averages around 500 pounds. So the tiger definitely wins this if we were dealing with average weights of species in that general region. That said, if Baloo was shown to be substantially larger and heavier looking than the tiger, Baloo should have won. Also, the tiger's largest advantage would be at the very beginning of the fight. If baloo was larger and wasn't incapacitated early on, then the tiger's prospects would have only decreased from there.

 

[lionsprey]

i know bears beat lions in a fight at least. but tigers are stronger then lions so not sure. although he shouldn't have survived that long since the second he bit the wolf pack leader the whole pack would have bit him to death. sure he might have killed one or two of them but no way would they have just stood by and watched it.

 

[Fox12]

That said, I can't for the life of me figure out why they didn't swarm him. Bagheera and Balloo should have been able to take him easily. If you add the wolves and other animals then they could have swarmed him. Just let Baloo be the tank while the others strke a killing blow.

The same reason that 10 people won't jump on a knife wielding guy attacking someone. Fear, self-preservation, cowardice, etc.

And I think a tiger would be better 1v1 even against a bear, which though large and strong, don't really have experience killing big game(Do they catch deer?).
I mean, a bear would ***** slap, but a tiger would go straight for the throat.

There isn't really sense comparing real life to fiction (although it can be a fun mental exercise!)

That makes sense for most of the animals, but you'd think Bagheera would lend a hand. He's fought the tiger before, after all.

 

[BiscuitWheels]

Not having seen the movie, I can't be a fair judge. In the book, Khan had a lame leg..did he have that handicap in the new film?

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Are there really people trying to use real life logic to validate their opinion that their lovable creature shouldn't have lost in a Disney animation? *Facepalm through desk into floor*

 

[axlryder]

Are there really people trying to use real life logic to validate their opinion that their lovable creature shouldn't have lost in a Disney animation? *Facepalm through desk into floor*

I think it's more just a fun topic of conversation/debate. Unfortunately, there's not really much to talk about unless you bring real life into it.

 

[TrulyBritish]

Well, I don't know what kind of bear he is. If he was a grizzly bear, sure, but there's various kinds of bears in the world, and I reckon not all of them are that strong or mobile a fighters. Plus, all Baloo does is lie around and eat, so I doubt he's very capable in a fight.

In the film he's referred to as a sloth bear, even though he doesn't actually seem to look like one.
OT: I think it's less about it being a bear against a tiger, but a bear against Shere Khan. IIRC when Mowgli tells Baloo a tiger is after him Baloo doesn't see it as a big deal and doesn't get why Bagheera is so focused on Mowgli going to the Man Village until Bagheera specifically says Khan is after him, at which point Baloo agrees with him. The film really tries to set up the fact that Khan is massively feared by the other animals for "breaking the laws of the jungle" and killing for fun, not to mention

Spoiler

killing Akira in one move just to make a point

The bigger question as other posters have mentioned is why didn't the others help? Baloo gives a pretty good showing until he's beat and while the wolves were basically chew toys Bagheera's been shown willing to tangle with Khan before and could have helped.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Seriously? People argue about realism in a movie like this? What the actual fuck is wrong with people?

 

[Tiger King]

I've not seen this but my money would be on (depending on what kind) the bear to win as they are much bigger and stronger. Indeed the biggest land predator on the planet is the polar bear which are huge.

I found this on youtube also.

https://youtu.be/SNK78cl2wto

Tiger vs Bear, lets get ready to ruuummmbblleee!!!

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

It was Mowgli's fight. Dramatically it makes sense that he defeats Shere Khan, as opposed to his strongest buddy.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

What a lot of people don't seem to understand (or remember) is that the 'classic' Jungle Book and the more recent retelling are essentially two different films.

Sure they share a lot of similarities, but in terms of themes, plot, and setting, they both differ greatly (and it's not because the original didn't have a plot; that just ridiculous!).

The original film's plot was that Mowgli was a human child in a dangerous, unforgiving wilderness, full of predators and perils, so the main driving force for Mowgli to live in the Man Village was to keep him safe. It is only through the aid of his animal friend's and sheer dumb luck (lightning striking a tree) that Mowgli is able to narrowly escape certain death. Baloo's fight/squabble with Shere Khan, if it proved fatal, would have been the final nail in the coffin to Mowgli's resolve to stay in the jungle. Seeing a fun loving and carefree animal fall to the might of a vicious predator would foreshadow Mowgli's fate should he stay in the jungle.

In the retelling, Mowgli is a completely different character. Sure he's still a child, but he is cunning and resourceful, being able to build and use various forms of tools that aid him in several situations. The only thing that makes him helpless is that other animals judge him on relying on his intellect instead of his instincts (i.e. using 'tricks'). So when he is handicapped in this manner, it seems like living in the Man Village is the only way that he can survive. However, once he embraces the fact that he is a human, and not an animal, he is able to use his know-how to best Shere Khan, a beast driven by base instinct. Baloo put up a fight against Sheer Khan, but it was Mowgli who would have to take him down for his realization to come full circle.

Honestly, it seems like Baloo should have fought Shere Khan in the original and almost die, while in the retelling, he should have just stalled Shere Khan in order to give Mowgli enough time to properly dispatch him.