The Legend of Zelda: Dated with Time?

[uknownada]

I'm not one who dislikes the Zelda franchise. It's one of my favorite ever. However, I do think it has one of the most dated games ever. That would be the original NES title.

Let me first say I don't hate any game in the series. Not even the second (although I think it's superior to the first, but that's another story). But the very first Zelda seems to get constant praise not for what it IS, but for what it DID. What it DID was pilot a fantastic franchise and made the adventure genre "mainstream". What it IS is a convoluted, cryptic piece of unplayability to those who did not grow up when it was most relevant.

Imagine you are a young player who has just bought the first Zelda game after hearing so much about it and being a big Zelda fan as well. You've never played it before, you've never seen any footage, and you don't even have an instruction manual as it was bought used (no, I'm not this player). It's just you and the game.

It's easy to appreciate how big an expansive the game is, and the combat is incredibly fun. You get through the first few dungeons with a bit of a struggle, but still know what you're doing. Then you get to a part where you have to bomb a wall. Is there any indication that you should bomb the wall? Do you know if you can bomb any walls? If you bomb an unbombable wall, how do you know if you didn't just fail?

If you did find out that you can only bomb the center of walls, maybe later you get to a part where you have to move a block. How do you know to move the block? If you try pushing a block in a certain direction, are you doing something wrong or are you pushing it in the wrong direction?

If you did get through the first eight levels (which makes me question how you figured out how to get to level 7 and 8 on your own), where do you go now? The ninth level seems nowhere to be seen. The only clue that might lead to it is "Spectacle Rock is the entrance to death". But where is Spectacle Rock? WHAT is Spectacle Rock? How do I go in? Oh, I have to bomb this random spot on this random rock. That's something you probably couldn't figure out on your own.

Do you see my point? The game doesn't offer any indication that the player is going in a correct direction. Of course, many gamers would say that this is meant to be played with Nintendo Power at hand because Nintendo Power has a map and hints. So in order to effectively enjoy this great adventure, you have to use an outside source to tell you where to go? Doesn't that ruin the point of it being an ADVENTURE?


I'm not saying the game should have signs or people explicitly telling you where you should go. What I'm saying is this game should not have been made with the implication that in order to get through it, you have to have people talking about the game, which itself ruins the notion of this being an adventure where you discover things on your own. "The Legend of Zelda" was made FOR the 1980s. If you got this game after the time where it was relevant, you will have no idea where to go or what to do without the help of outside sources.

My main question is how did YOU get through the original Zelda? More specifically, how did you know how to enter Level 7, 8, and 9 without it being an accident? Also, how come the original Zelda is met with praise and love for being so cryptic, while other games like "Castlevania 2" and "Hydlide" are constantly criticized for it?

 

[Liquidprid3]

I played the first game in August last year, and I used a guide when I got stuck. As, I was watching the Game Grumps play it, so I got some tips from them. I'm actually not sure if I beat it. Still, I had a blast, and I find the combat really fun.

 

[Roxas1359]

Really most Zelda games age well (ALttP has aged quite nicely), but I will say that the two games that have aged the poorest are probably the first Zelda and Zelda II: Link's Awakening. Between the two, Zelda II has aged the worst. For the first game, I found the controls to be way to stiff to use, seeing as in the first game Link could only go in 4 directions and couldn't start moving at angles in a top-down view until ALttP. I enjoyed the openness of the first game, but the lack of a map really marred my experience since I'm not the best at memorization. Plus, the fact that the game doesn't really tell you to use the Silver Arrows on the final blow on Ganon annoyed me.

As for Zelda II...oh the things I could say about that one would be too long to type on an iPod Touch. So for a quick checklist: EXP to level up, terrible knockback, flickering sprites (they were worse in Zelda II that any other game on the NES I've played), the fact the you end up back in the Hyrule Temple every time you get a game over, Dark Link, and having to platform with Link in that game was not fun.

 

[Roxas1359]

There was no Zelda 2. Only a single Zelda game for the NES was made.

Now now, it's not healthy to repress memories you know. They only come back much worse when you try to trick your mind that they didn't exist. Believe me, I've tried with other games. *still trying to forget Other M*

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes, Zelda 1 didn't age all that well (though I'd argue the second one aged even worse due to being NES hard, that is to say, punishing, which we now realize is a big no no.) But I actually love it for what it is: the only Zelda sandbox game. I do agree that the wall-bombing should have had more indications of where to bomb (I don't know if the original Nintendo Power map showed where the overworld bombing locations were), but other puzzles did generally have hints, even if perhaps too subtle.

I think another thing to remember (and this is another aspect where Zelda hasn't aged well, so I'm not really defending it, just pointing it out) is that Zelda was released before the internet, and generally played by kids. Because the game plays very well from a mechanics perspective, the artwork on the box and manual is great, the music is fantastic and the graphics, for the time, are great, it struck a pretty good nerve with kids: it was the first time they could really feel like they were playing an adventure in a massive world (a feeling Grand Theft Auto III and Skyrim would both capture later.) Another thing this means is that kids are talking about the game on the schoolyard, sharing what they know with other kids (leading to both true and false hints.) Nintendo Power also released a map at one point, which would have been a big help. The manual also has a strategy guide for getting to the first level, which other kids would share with those kids who didn't have it. It's very much like an adventure, not unlike adventurers in a D&D game asking townsfolk for information.

...glancing through the manual, though, it does seem that it also doesn't really give clear hints that walls can be bombed.

I played the first game in August last year, and I used a guide when I got stuck. As, I was watching the Game Grumps play it, so I got some tips from them. I'm actually not sure if I beat it. Still, I had a blast, and I find the combat really fun.

Far as I'm concerned, using FAQs and video walkthroughs is the modern equivalent to kids sharing secrets and tips on the schoolyard. So, yes, if you beat Ganon, you beat it. Zelda isn't Myst.

 

[SilverStuddedSquirre]

Suck it up buttercup. Ever since OoT, there has been a depressing trend of Highlighting anything even REMOTELY significant to anything in a dialogue, the inception of Quest Arrows in your MAIN display when you HAVE a detailed mini map, AND over map. This is not limited to Zelda, but OoT sure started it. Yes, that game drops you in, and says Good Luck! Before pulling a Gandalf and leaving you on your own to solve shit.

Dark Souls entire selling point is just that. Figure it out, or die trying. Then try again. You see, one used to have to use one's problem solving skills, and just try things to see if they work. Ever played Metroid? That will leave you BEGGING for Zelda.

I'm pretty sure that if you try that old RPG staple of TALKING TO ALL THE NPCS you will be given all the info you need. I remember when I FINALLY found out how to get into those dungeons, it took me ages. I think I finally found some old sage in a tree who gave me directions.

As to your question of how? With my cousins help, drawing our own maps, and being diligent little heroes, we managed to get er done in several months. Damn that was SO much fun. Absolutely NOTHING in that game is harder than the Water Temple to map out or explore.

Finally, when in a Zelda title, you discover that you cannot do what you need to progress, just keep exploring. EVERY dungeon provides the tools you need to defeat it's challenges. If you came to a bomb wall, and have not yet found the bombs, you note the curiosity. Later when you DO get bombs, you think "Hey, I wonder if these will affect that crack in the wall I found Earlier?" This is such an effective exploration method, that it persist in the Batman Arkham Games, just they Hold your hand and tell you exactly what tool you will need to open said door, rather than letting you have a Eureka! moment when you get the Tool.

 

[uknownada]

Suck it up buttercup. Ever since OoT, there has been a depressing trend of Highlighting anything even REMOTELY significant to anything in a dialogue, the inception of Quest Arrows in your MAIN display when you HAVE a detailed mini map, AND over map. This is not limited to Zelda, but OoT sure started it. Yes, that game drops you in, and says Good Luck! Before pulling a Gandalf and leaving you on your own to solve shit.

Dark Souls entire selling point is just that. Figure it out, or die trying. Then try again. You see, one used to have to use one's problem solving skills, and just try things to see if they work. Ever played Metroid? That will leave you BEGGING for Zelda.

I'm pretty sure that if you try that old RPG staple of TALKING TO ALL THE NPCS you will be given all the info you need. I remember when I FINALLY found out how to get into those dungeons, it took me ages. I think I finally found some old sage in a tree who gave me directions.

As to your question of how? With my cousins help, drawing our own maps, and being diligent little heroes, we managed to get er done in several months. Damn that was SO much fun. Absolutely NOTHING in that game is harder than the Water Temple to map out or explore.

Finally, when in a Zelda title, you discover that you cannot do what you need to progress, just keep exploring. EVERY dungeon provides the tools you need to defeat it's challenges. If you came to a bomb wall, and have not yet found the bombs, you note the curiosity. Later when you DO get bombs, you think "Hey, I wonder if these will affect that crack in the wall I found Earlier?" This is such an effective exploration method, that it persist in the Batman Arkham Games, just they Hold your hand and tell you exactly what tool you will need to open said door, rather than letting you have a Eureka! moment when you get the Tool.

But the game is specifically designed to get outside help to be able to beat it. Meaning unless you use trial and error on every random rock and wall you find, you have to use outside help in order to know where you're going. This isn't good game design; it's glorifying the challenge keeping the player in the dark.

If I put a little cube in front of you and don't tell you what to do, would you be having fun? Sure, at first it's interesting to experiment everything you can do with the cube, but after a while of getting stuck it just gets frustrating.

Yeah, I've played Metroid. That game actually makes a better sense of adventure, as you never know if you're in a familiar place or not. Except for the parts where you have to destroy parts of the floor or wall (which are not indicated; the same problem Zelda has), you're basically in the same situation Samus is. You're dropped in a planet and you have to figure out where to go. With Metroid, you CAN figure out where to go. It's basically a giant maze. In Zelda, it's easy to explore the entire map on your own, but at that point it can be difficult when you have to go through this specific part that looks exactly the same as everything else.

Did you use trial and error to bomb this random rock that leads to the final level, or did you deduce it through the game design?

 

[zehydra]

"Do you see my point? The game doesn't offer any indication that the player is going in a correct direction"

It does actually offer the indication, but it's not much. It's just the triforce pieces and maps and such.

This is often a problem with old NES games, not just Zelda NES. These early games were very reliant on something external like a game manual to explain the game somewhat, as the developers tended to want explanation of how the game was played in the game itself to a minimum so it could take advantage of the limited memory space available.

A bigger offender of this is probably Metroid than Zelda. Zelda at least has NPCs that tell you things, as well as maps.

I think an example of a game which teaches progressively and seamlessly (ideal game design) on the NES is probably Kirby's Adventure, though it came pretty late on that platform.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

The original Zelda has definitely aged poorly. I played it through a year or two ago but I had to use a guide to get through it. Same with Zelda II but at least there was a sense of where you have to go in the second. The first one was really open ended and while it may not be friendly to newcomers, that aspect of the game has definitely been remedied by the fact that we have the internet now. When I first played the original Zelda as a kid, I had no way to make myself a map. I didn't have the internet and I didn't even have Nintendo Power. Since I first played the original Zelda in the mid-90's, it would have been difficult to find the right Nintendo Power anyway. It may not have aged well but it's definitely rewarding to get through it to the end.

 

[UNHchabo]

There was no Zelda 2. Only a single Zelda game for the NES was made.

I'm actually in the middle of a playthrough of Zelda 2 right now (I recently joined RetroAchievements [http://retroachievements.org/] thanks to the Escapist's story on the site), and I still enjoy it.

The game is very hard though. I used to play it with my Game Genie, so I could have regenerating health, and nine lives. This time I'm playing on "hardcore mode", with no save states or cheats, as if I were playing on the console. I've failed on my first six attempts at the final dungeon, but maybe I'll beat it on the seventh.

On the plus side, when you get a Game Over in the Great Palace, you continue just outside, instead of back at the temple.

 

[PeaceRider]

The thing is games back then had next to no instruction on what is going on.
Just a small intro to the story via the instruction booklet or a block of text in the opening, some instruction for controls in the instruction booklet, and off you go on a grand adventure that pretty much had zero restrictions.
Most people found things themselves, which is how things were done way back then. If you desperately needed help you'd have to ask someone else who played the game, or hope there were tips in the next issue of the game magazines.
Before the days of the internet and it's FAQ sites and forums, it was up to the gamer to play and win, and when you would find a secret room, get a new power up, or found a random, unexplained thing, that was all you. And thus gaming myths and legends came to be. Some proved true (Mario Bros. endless water zone thing) and some not true (Mew being under the truck).

All in all, it's not a matter of if it has or not aged well, but if you the gamer can handle that different style.

 

[SilverStuddedSquirre]

I got the bombs and then proceeded to see what I could blow up with them. The game is NOT designed to need outside help, NO games are. The guide was released because some people don't have the available free time, inclination, or desire to explore and discover. I am not saying I found every secret location, or every burnable bush on my first play through, but neither did I have difficulty with the bombing walls bit. I am VERY sure that I discovered this LONG before level 7.

I just quickly watched a lets play, and you get bombs in the first 5 minutes of play as a drop. This means that you have had bombs for 6 dungeons by the time you got stuck. If at NO point during this time you tried to bomb cracks in the wall, I don't know what to say. If by this point in the game, you aren't habitually bombing dungeon walls, or every stand alone rock and tree you can find, you're doing it wrong.

Yes, the game play mechanics DO teach you what you need to know: You know SOME blocks are moveable because they MAKE you move them when a staircase is surrounded. Previous to dungeon six you learn that MOST secrets are hidden beneath free-standing rocks, or bushes, or rather obvious cracks in the walls.

Also I don't understand: Metroid you can beat because its a maze, but Zelda you can't because it's a maze? Zelda gives you maps for each dungeon, and the world over map give you a decent idea of where you are in relation to where you were - even if it is just a grid of blank squares.

I DO understand that it IS a tough game, from an era when the Developers didn't hold your hand and spoon feed you the win. I hope you appreciate just how Molly-Coddled gamers are today. Hell, in Skyrim, they actually GIVE you the answers to ALL the puzzles in the SAME room as the Puzzle. Why even bother?

 

[uknownada]

The thing is games back then had next to no instruction on what is going on.
Just a small intro to the story via the instruction booklet or a block of text in the opening, some instruction for controls in the instruction booklet, and off you go on a grand adventure that pretty much had zero restrictions.
Most people found things themselves, which is how things were done way back then. If you desperately needed help you'd have to ask someone else who played the game, or hope there were tips in the next issue of the game magazines.
Before the days of the internet and it's FAQ sites and forums, it was up to the gamer to play and win, and when you would find a secret room, get a new power up, or found a random, unexplained thing, that was all you. And thus gaming myths and legends came to be. Some proved true (Mario Bros. endless water zone thing) and some not true (Mew being under the truck).

All in all, it's not a matter of if it has or not aged well, but if you the gamer can handle that different style.

This proves my point that it's aged. Even gamers back then had to rely on outside sources to be able to know where they're going. I think I heard in an interview once that Miyamoto actually made the game specifically so people can get help from other people. And since obviously a game isn't always going to be relevant all the time, people are going to stop talking about this game. This leaves new players in the dark unless they ask for help. Asking for help is not something that should be encouraged in a game; it should be playable and beatable with the player and the game alone.

 

[uknownada]

I got the bombs and then proceeded to see what I could blow up with them. The game is NOT designed to need outside help, NO games are. The guide was released because some people don't have the available free time, inclination, or desire to explore and discover. I am not saying I found every secret location, or every burnable bush on my first play through, but neither did I have difficulty with the bombing walls bit. I am VERY sure that I discovered this LONG before level 7.

I just quickly watched a lets play, and you get bombs in the first 5 minutes of play as a drop. This means that you have had bombs for 6 dungeons by the time you got stuck. If at NO point during this time you tried to bomb cracks in the wall, I don't know what to say. If by this point in the game, you aren't habitually bombing dungeon walls, or every stand alone rock and tree you can find, you're doing it wrong.

Yes, the game play mechanics DO teach you what you need to know: You know SOME blocks are moveable because they MAKE you move them when a staircase is surrounded. Previous to dungeon six you learn that MOST secrets are hidden beneath free-standing rocks, or bushes, or rather obvious cracks in the walls.

Also I don't understand: Metroid you can beat because its a maze, but Zelda you can't because it's a maze? Zelda gives you maps for each dungeon, and the world over map give you a decent idea of where you are in relation to where you were - even if it is just a grid of blank squares.

I DO understand that it IS a tough game, from an era when the Developers didn't hold your hand and spoon feed you the win. I hope you appreciate just how Molly-Coddled gamers are today. Hell, in Skyrim, they actually GIVE you the answers to ALL the puzzles in the SAME room as the Puzzle. Why even bother?

Did you even play the game? There ARE no cracks on the walls. They all look the same!

 

[Broderick]

I got the bombs and then proceeded to see what I could blow up with them. The game is NOT designed to need outside help, NO games are. The guide was released because some people don't have the available free time, inclination, or desire to explore and discover. I am not saying I found every secret location, or every burnable bush on my first play through, but neither did I have difficulty with the bombing walls bit. I am VERY sure that I discovered this LONG before level 7.

I just quickly watched a lets play, and you get bombs in the first 5 minutes of play as a drop. This means that you have had bombs for 6 dungeons by the time you got stuck. If at NO point during this time you tried to bomb cracks in the wall, I don't know what to say. If by this point in the game, you aren't habitually bombing dungeon walls, or every stand alone rock and tree you can find, you're doing it wrong.

Yes, the game play mechanics DO teach you what you need to know: You know SOME blocks are moveable because they MAKE you move them when a staircase is surrounded. Previous to dungeon six you learn that MOST secrets are hidden beneath free-standing rocks, or bushes, or rather obvious cracks in the walls.

Also I don't understand: Metroid you can beat because its a maze, but Zelda you can't because it's a maze? Zelda gives you maps for each dungeon, and the world over map give you a decent idea of where you are in relation to where you were - even if it is just a grid of blank squares.

I DO understand that it IS a tough game, from an era when the Developers didn't hold your hand and spoon feed you the win. I hope you appreciate just how Molly-Coddled gamers are today. Hell, in Skyrim, they actually GIVE you the answers to ALL the puzzles in the SAME room as the Puzzle. Why even bother?

In the original Zelda there are no cracks in the wall. Unfortunately a lot of games back then were designed to be hard or not clear on where to go, as it was a condition that happened during the transition phase from arcade to home console. Balancing difficulty and staying power for the game was a new thing, so I think the original zelda game being vague was a side effect of that. I still love the game myself, but I think it is disingenuous to think that every game teaches you what you need to know. You ever play Milon's Secret Castle? That game seems to be almost built to sell guides and pay per minute tip calls.

I agree with most of what you are saying, but some games in that era were so delightfully vague on how some of the mechanics work. Yes, most could probably work out most everything in a while, but with the bombs? You would have to bomb every surface just to figure out which ones are actually doors or not, as back then there were absolutely no clues as to which walls were false or not. I remember a couple areas being a bit more visible than others, like a large rock formation in the middle of one screen that does not touch any other walls(seems like bomb bait to me!). Most though were downright impossible to know without prior knowledge.

 

[Fsyco]

I played the 3DS re-release of Ocarina of Time, and it had definitely shown it's age. The combat was meh, the plot wasn't very engaging, and the game seemed deliberately obtuse. Might be because I didn't play it as a child, and I'd played games that had done similar things but better (Darksiders and Okami, for example). The weird thing was, I played it at the behest of several of my friends, and some of them refused to offer me any help and chastised me for consulting a walkthrough, because being confused is 'part of the experience'. Maybe it isn't just age though, since I had a similar experience when I tried to play Dark Souls.

Personally, I don't enjoy the feeling of being lost or uncertain. It doesn't build any atmosphere for me, it just frustrates me. I play games to have fun, and I don't really see the fun in being confused. I get that a lot of people like it, but it really isn't up my alley. Gaming shouldn't feel like work.

 

[Qvar]

Uh oh... I completed the game and didn't got stuck until the second quest, where I couldn't find the Lion key or whatever it was named. Finding crackable walls inside dungeons is quite easy once you get the map: Just try all the walls that connect to rooms you haven't explored yet.

As for moving blocks and outisde bushes and walls... yeah, you pretty much have to try every bush and rock standing alone. Once you get into the mindset it isn't that hard.

 

[TheMigrantSoldier]

To my knowledge, the first Legend of Zelda was designed to be a pseudo-multiplayer type of game. You could be taking notes and be feeling a sense of progression. Using a guide (like in the manual) and sharing tips with friends was encouraged, almost like a prehistoric Dark Souls. You could still play it without a guide and, while it's time-consuming and barebones, I found it very enjoyable, though not as much as the later games. I'm sure it was simply the coolest thing around at the time.

Still, I always roll my eyes whenever I see "hardcore" gamers say that Zelda needs to return to its roots in the first one. I know hand-holding in games can be obnoxious but I don't think the exact opposite should be brought out of its grave. I always liked ALttP the most in the top-down Zelda game style because of the balance. There's little hand-holding beyond picking out 3 locations on the map with a few hints and the locations are all varied beyond mountains and dungeons. I liked the openness but feeling lost can only be so entertaining after a while, at least for me. And, of course, cryptic crap like having to hit Ganon with silver arrows is something I'd rather stay dead.

 

[SilverStuddedSquirre]

I got the bombs and then proceeded to see what I could blow up with them. The game is NOT designed to need outside help, NO games are. The guide was released because some people don't have the available free time, inclination, or desire to explore and discover. I am not saying I found every secret location, or every burnable bush on my first play through, but neither did I have difficulty with the bombing walls bit. I am VERY sure that I discovered this LONG before level 7.

I just quickly watched a lets play, and you get bombs in the first 5 minutes of play as a drop. This means that you have had bombs for 6 dungeons by the time you got stuck. If at NO point during this time you tried to bomb cracks in the wall, I don't know what to say. If by this point in the game, you aren't habitually bombing dungeon walls, or every stand alone rock and tree you can find, you're doing it wrong.

Yes, the game play mechanics DO teach you what you need to know: You know SOME blocks are moveable because they MAKE you move them when a staircase is surrounded. Previous to dungeon six you learn that MOST secrets are hidden beneath free-standing rocks, or bushes, or rather obvious cracks in the walls.

Also I don't understand: Metroid you can beat because its a maze, but Zelda you can't because it's a maze? Zelda gives you maps for each dungeon, and the world over map give you a decent idea of where you are in relation to where you were - even if it is just a grid of blank squares.

I DO understand that it IS a tough game, from an era when the Developers didn't hold your hand and spoon feed you the win. I hope you appreciate just how Molly-Coddled gamers are today. Hell, in Skyrim, they actually GIVE you the answers to ALL the puzzles in the SAME room as the Puzzle. Why even bother?

Did you even play the game? There ARE no cracks on the walls. They all look the same!

While you are correct about the walls, it doesn't change the fact that I, and scads of other people managed to discover what the Bombs did, without a magazine. I remember habitually bombing walls. Come on, every room is a perfect square, you only have 4 options!