The little things that Horizon Zero Dawn does that most open world games fail at

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Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Obviously, Horizon's combat system is the core of the game that makes the whole thing work. However, there's a bunch of little things that Horizon does that keeps the game from devolving into what's basically referred to as Ubisoft: The Game nowadays. There's nothing really inherently bad about any of those mechanics really. For example, revealing points of interest and/or collectibles is great vs the alternative of using a guide. Anyone remember those hidden packages in GTA3? Anyways onto how Horizon makes it all work...

-Combat
The "little" thing with regards to combat stems for its design focus that many action RPGs fail at. The combat was designed to fight huge beasts first and foremost so much so combat against humans is poor. The combat in Dragon's Dogma was designed from the same standpoint. However, epic fights against huge beasts ring hollow in just about every other RPG. Witcher 3 is a perfect example of the combat system being designed opposite of what the core game should excel at; Geralt is a MONSTER slayer yet the combat system was designed around humanoid fighting so the actual monster fights are so flat.

-The World
The open world is definitely required for the core gameplay; hunting and fighting robot dinosaurs. Thus the game doesn't feel like it's just open world because that's the current fad and the game just wouldn't work as a linear game. Secondly, the open world isn't TOO BIG and there's always something interesting around the next corner. It never feels like it takes too long to get anywhere. Plus, the open world isn't just a filler in-between actual content, the world is very much the content (the hunting of robot dinos). The world is about as dense as you could make it filled with interesting places to explore and new & different fights around just about every corner as well.

-Inventory Management
You're not constantly getting inundated with new weapons that do slightly more damage or gear that's slightly better. In fact, new weapons don't do extra damage, they add new ammo types to give you more combat options. The game keeps you out of the inventory as much as possible.

-Collectibles / Points of Interest / Quests
When you get into a new area, you aren't overwhelmed with loads of question marks and exclamation points everywhere. There's probably about 10 points of interests in each area with a combination of Tallnecks to vantage points to metal flowers. The one thing that I was absolutely ecstatic about when I picked up my first metal flower was that the popup said 1/30 instead of 1/100+. Every collectible is pretty limited in amount. When you get into a new town, there's only 1 or 2 exclamation point quest givers. Even the biggest city had, I believe, 4 quest givers. You never feel like you ever have this massive checklist of quests and collectibles.

-Health & Save Systems
The health system is like Rise of the Tomb Raider on Survivor difficulty (no health regen) where you have to find medicinal herbs to fill your medicine pouch. Every hit you take drains your resources. You use campfires to save at. There is a decent amount of fear that you will lose progress because if you die, you return back to the last campfire you saved at similar to a Souls game. It's nowhere near a Souls game as quests have pretty generous checkpoints. However, when exploring the world, there are consequences for dying on your way to your destination giving each fight that extra bit of tension.

-No More FARMING
You can buy rare drops from enemies for a good chunk of money instead of having to farm them to get a specific rare drop needed for a specific weapon.

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Horizon Zero Dawn is a game that fully utilizes its open world to expand on its core gameplay while most games' open worlds only dilute the core gameplay; Mirror's Edge Catalyst collectibles make you constantly STOP to get them, which is at complete odds with the "flow" of the game's platforming. Horizon's world is NEEDED for the core gameplay to actually work instead of just acting as padding between actual content.
 

Casual Shinji

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One thing the gameplay would've benefitted from is a climbing mechanic. This is likely because I've been playing Breath of the Wild when I'm not playing Horizon, but it really opens up the traversal like you wouldn't believe.

There's so many jawdropping structures in Horizon that it's a real shame you can't clamber up them. Aloy even has a rope, but she only uses it to repel down specific points. How awesome would it have been if you had a feature to your bow that allowed you to shoot grapple points into any structure and then use your rope to hook on and scale it?
 

Cold Shiny

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Casual Shinji said:
One thing the gameplay would've benefitted from is a climbing mechanic. This is likely because I've been playing Breath of the Wild when I'm not playing Horizon, but it really opens up the traversal like you wouldn't believe.

There's so many jawdropping structures in Horizon that it's a real shame you can't clamber up them. Aloy even has a rope, but she only uses it to repel down specific points. How awesome would it have been if you had a feature to your bow that allowed you to shoot grapple points into any structure and then use your rope to hook on and scale it?
That's also my only criticism. For me personally, Horizon is an absolutely awesome game. However, its a little odd sometimes to have to run around a short cliff because Aloy refuses to grab a ledge that she's clearly tall enough to grab.
 

Athennesi

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Eh, combat is a hit and miss. Giant dinos are great to fight, but archery is very, very poor. Point and shoot, plus ridiculous animation of quick shooting like it's a machine gun. And melee, stealth and fights against humans are little better.
The rest is subjective...I LOVED worldbuilding and design in Witcher, sense of scale AND ton of quality content. Bethesda games have generally far more interesting locations.
Horizon is still a good game, but Imo doesn't really excel in any aspects.
 

Zhukov

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Seconded on the restrained number of objectives. Turns out climbing a vantage point to reveal the map is actually pretty fun when you only have to do it six times instead of 30. (It also helps if the vantage point in question is the head of a giant robot sauropod instead of a radio tower.)

Also on the not having to swap out weapons for identical weapons with 1.5% more damage all the fucking time. RPGs need to cut that shit out, it's a waste of time.

It helps that the game's world looks bloody amazing. One time I was riding through a forested area and actually slowed down to admire the scenery. Not many games can get me to do that.

Another point in it's favour is that you buy basically all your equipment instead of how it is in most games where buying stuff is a waste of time because you'll loot something better ten minutes later. So I actually end up wanting the game's currency which motivates me to hunt, gather and fight while I wander around instead of just running past for the sake of efficiency, because there's no other way I'm going to get that nifty outfit or new bow.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Interesting I'd like to eventually write more about the game but am having to much fun playing lol. Maybe once I finally play through the main story I'll be able to outline some more detailed, critical impressions.

Having said that, generally speaking, outside of some instances of AI being too imperceptive when playing stealthily, clipping issues with foliage, and the lip sync issues, there's a very negligible amount of issues to complain about. It's simply a very balanced and enjoyable gameplay loop of exploring, hunting, fighting, trading, crafting, and story (the hidden audiologs and transcripts have a surprising amount of lore building). While human enemies are insignificant in terms of combat, the machine fights are in a class of their own. The range of possible tactics to deploy on these things have effectively made me forget about the vast majority of Soulsborne combat. I haven't touched Bloodborne since the day before 2/28.

Plus, they are often an audio-visual spectacle. Youtube videos don't really do justice to the intensity of fighting even say, a Bellowback while it's engulfed in flames from your arrows/bombs/traps/etc. ripping through its weak points, knocking down trees trying to get at you and wailing in some twisted synthetic form of what could be called agonizing pain if it were human. The attention to detail of them visually is just icing on the cake. I would love to get some high quality figurines of some of them, for example -




Athennesi said:
Eh, combat is a hit and miss. Giant dinos are great to fight, but archery is very, very poor. Point and shoot, plus ridiculous animation of quick shooting like it's a machine gun.
I haven't really made a point of observing the animation for quick shooting, but I can't say that archery feels merely point and shoot. It can feel gamey since you can pull of quick shots, but also tactical in terms of how long you hold the aim for increased power, and this is especially the case when using slings.
 

PapaGreg096

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I really wish the weapons inventory was just you choosing types of weapons instead of changing every time you fight a predator bot
 

Bob_McMillan

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Question: How does it run on the PS4? Because all the reviews and footage I have been seeing are from the Pro.
 

Kreett

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Bob_McMillan said:
Question: How does it run on the PS4? Because all the reviews and footage I have been seeing are from the Pro.
I am at a rough 80% completion and I've only had a single instance of fps drops or stuttering, it runs like a dream even if very rarely it has texture popins if you go running too far too fast after a loading screen
 

Bob_McMillan

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Kreett said:
Bob_McMillan said:
Question: How does it run on the PS4? Because all the reviews and footage I have been seeing are from the Pro.
I am at a rough 80% completion and I've only had a single instance of fps drops or stuttering, it runs like a dream even if very rarely it has texture popins if you go running too far too fast after a loading screen
That's good to know. It may well be the last game I ever buy for my PS4.
 

Sonicron

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I have to disagree about the inventory management - the 'resources' tab flies in the face of that. Mid-game onwards you will constantly have to clean up your inventory to free up a few spaces while also keeping most of your junk because you never know when you'll need a certain lens, heart, bone or skin.
This ties in neatly with the other point I disagree with. No more farming? If only. Yes, you can buy machine parts, which is nice, but the first thing to add to this game via patch would be a vendor for animal parts. Even warping around the map and spamming the reload randomizer I spent about 2 hours trying to get a fucking goose skin. Trying to grind for a rare component of a rare random critter without a fixed spawn point has got to be the shittiest implementation of loot grinding in all of creation.

And before anyone tunnels up my butt about these criticisms: I have been mainlining this game for a week now and absolutely love it. To me there can be no denying the obvious flaws in this game; that being said, it is a stonking great game all the same.
 

Zhukov

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Kreett said:
I am at a rough 80% completion and I've only had a single instance of fps drops or stuttering, it runs like a dream even if very rarely it has texture popins if you go running too far too fast after a loading screen
Was that one instance in the house in Meridian?
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Athennesi said:
Eh, combat is a hit and miss. Giant dinos are great to fight, but archery is very, very poor. Point and shoot, plus ridiculous animation of quick shooting like it's a machine gun. And melee, stealth and fights against humans are little better.
The rest is subjective...I LOVED worldbuilding and design in Witcher, sense of scale AND ton of quality content. Bethesda games have generally far more interesting locations.
Horizon is still a good game, but Imo doesn't really excel in any aspects.
Are you saying fighting humans is better? Because those are the worst fights and the bandit camps are by far the worst side activity in the game. The bows feel great; the only time I really quick-shoot is pretty up close with the war bow as the accuracy is shit if you don't pull back all the way. Overall, I rarely quick-shoot as one double-shot usually yields a status effect against just about anything. I'll give you the world building in Witcher 3 but the actual world wasn't interesting at all. Besides for the locations the story takes you, there's nothing of interest on the Witcher 3 map; there's really no reason to explore unless you want to do like a hundred monster nests or find useless crap in the sea. In Horizon, there's usually something interesting and different to check out around every corner. Horizon definitely has the better diversity.

Zhukov said:
Also on the not having to swap out weapons for identical weapons with 1.5% more damage all the fucking time. RPGs need to cut that shit out, it's a waste of time.

It helps that the game's world looks bloody amazing. One time I was riding through a forested area and actually slowed down to admire the scenery. Not many games can get me to do that.

Another point in it's favour is that you buy basically all your equipment instead of how it is in most games where buying stuff is a waste of time because you'll loot something better ten minutes later. So I actually end up wanting the game's currency which motivates me to hunt, gather and fight while I wander around instead of just running past for the sake of efficiency, because there's no other way I'm going to get that nifty outfit or new bow.
Inventory management in RPGs has become such an annoying element that I hardly play any of them. Plus, most RPGs have bad combat and they don't even have good stories or characters either. It sorta boggles my mind why people play such long games that really don't do anything well. I guess just so they feel they get their moneys worth?

Good point about buying stuff in Horizon. I don't recall the last RPG or even just game that I actually bought things. With how RPGs always have you getting a better weapon every half hour, buying stuff seems like a total waste when you'll find something slightly better in the next hour for sure. I've even had to buy some resources from time-to-time like wire (the Sharpshot bow, ropecaster, and tripcaster all need freaking wire). I've also bought a couple rare drops that I didn't feel like farming.

The world is just beautiful looking. I've actually fooled around with Photo mode for like the 1st time ever in a game.

I didn't take this photo but I saw it in a Gamefaqs screenshot thread and it is amazing...


Here's a couple pictures I've taken in the game...

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hanselthecaretaker said:
The range of possible tactics to deploy on these things have effectively made me forget about the vast majority of Soulsborne combat.
Yeah, and the game does a good job by slowly introducing different ammo. There's quite a few different ways to take down pretty much every enemy. I still need to try going all Shadow of the Colossus and see if I can fight something on a mount.

PapaGreg096 said:
I really wish the weapons inventory was just you choosing types of weapons instead of changing every time you fight a predator bot
There's several ways to take down every machine. You really don't need to switch out anything for different fights. The only thing I wish is that the war bow had fire arrows as the freeze and corruption arrows are just too good while I rarely use the shock arrows. I need the sharpshot for my damage and the tearblast arrows are amazing. So I run with the 2 bows along with the tripcaster (using that to burn) and ropecaster.

Bob_McMillan said:
Question: How does it run on the PS4? Because all the reviews and footage I have been seeing are from the Pro.
I have a regular PS4 and it runs great. I'm thinking the best part of the Pro would be HDR mode as I'm guessing the HDR would do something similar to the "vibrant" filter in photo mode, I wish I could play with that filter enabled.
 

Zhukov

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Phoenixmgs said:
I still need to try going all Shadow of the Colossus and see if I can fight something on a mount.
I've found mounts handy for fighting thunderjaws. They allow you to flank faster to get in those side shots at its heart. Especially if you freeze the bastard first.

Pro-tip: If you whistle for your mount and then start sprinting before it gets to you it will run up alongside you and you can mount directly into a full speed gallop. Great for when you need to mount in mid-combat, especially if you need to escape. Much better than mounting at a standstill then trying to get speed up which will usually result in you getting slapped right back off.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Sonicron said:
I have to disagree about the inventory management - the 'resources' tab flies in the face of that. Mid-game onwards you will constantly have to clean up your inventory to free up a few spaces while also keeping most of your junk because you never know when you'll need a certain lens, heart, bone or skin.
This ties in neatly with the other point I disagree with. No more farming? If only. Yes, you can buy machine parts, which is nice, but the first thing to add to this game via patch would be a vendor for animal parts. Even warping around the map and spamming the reload randomizer I spent about 2 hours trying to get a fucking goose skin. Trying to grind for a rare component of a rare random critter without a fixed spawn point has got to be the shittiest implementation of loot grinding in all of creation.

And before anyone tunnels up my butt about these criticisms: I have been mainlining this game for a week now and absolutely love it. To me there can be no denying the obvious flaws in this game; that being said, it is a stonking great game all the same.
What do you need a goose skin for? I've had one for the longest that I haven't used but I'm not selling it. The only thing you really need the animal stuff for is to increase carry capacity, which you really don't need for most things (do you really need a 60 arrow quiver for example?). I do only need to max out capacity on one more thing and just need a turkey skin at this point (and it's for a weapon that I don't even use). I should be set unless the lodge weapons have their own separate ammo pouches, but I'm not sure if I'll even care to get those depending on how fun or not fun the challenges are. Also, the rare drops have a pretty high drop rate (in comparison to other games) because I did farm for a couple things before I knew of the merchant.

I'm pretty far into the game and there's not an issue keeping your resources in check. I have like 5 stacks of wood, blaze, etc and I still have plenty of room for everything. Occasionally I sell some stacks to get back down to like 5 stacks. You can sell all of the flowers unless you make resistance potions, which I don't. Anything green is not going to be needed for anything really good, and green stuff is easy enough to get just from normal play. I keep a few lenses of each enemy just in case but at this point, I know I don't need them. They are pretty cheap to buy anyways and getting them is pretty easy too. Also, that glass the humans drop is pretty useless when trading, you can sell that too. I think the you can use the glass to buy like the dirty buckets and stuff (you know, that merchant) but trading that stuff to that other guy is pretty useless. I did it once and the reward box was pretty lame. I keep my resources at a steady 80/100 after selling stuff like the ancient goods to traders.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Zhukov said:
Phoenixmgs said:
I still need to try going all Shadow of the Colossus and see if I can fight something on a mount.
I've found mounts handy for fighting thunderjaws. They allow you to flank faster to get in those side shots at its heart. Especially if you freeze the bastard first.

Pro-tip: If you whistle for your mount and then start sprinting before it gets to you it will run up alongside you and you can mount directly into a full speed gallop. Great for when you need to mount in mid-combat, especially if you need to escape. Much better than mounting at a standstill then trying to get speed up which will usually result in you getting slapped right back off.
Oh wow, I definitely need to get that skill now. That was a skill I thought was pretty useless.
 

Zhukov

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Phoenixmgs said:
Oh wow, I definitely need to get that skill now. That was a skill I thought was pretty useless.
Huh? What skill?

You can whistle for a mount whenever you have one overridden. (So long as it hasn't despawned, which it will do if you fast travel or leave it too far behind.)

There is a skill that allows you to just whistle a broadhead out of the blue without having to override one first though. It's convenient, but unnecessary.
 

Irwin126

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Zhukov said:
Phoenixmgs said:
Oh wow, I definitely need to get that skill now. That was a skill I thought was pretty useless.
Huh? What skill?

You can whistle for a mount whenever you have one overridden. (So long as it hasn't despawned, which it will do if you fast travel or leave it too far behind.)

There is a skill that allows you to just whistle a broadhead out of the blue without having to override one first though. It's convenient, but unnecessary.
I wouldn't say unnecessary, I lose mounts more than I capture them. So I end up using the whistle more than I capture any bots.
 

Sonicron

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Mar 11, 2009
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Phoenixmgs said:
What do you need a goose skin for? I've had one for the longest that I haven't used but I'm not selling it. The only thing you really need the animal stuff for is to increase carry capacity, which you really don't need for most things (do you really need a 60 arrow quiver for example?). I do only need to max out capacity on one more thing and just need a turkey skin at this point (and it's for a weapon that I don't even use). I should be set unless the lodge weapons have their own separate ammo pouches, but I'm not sure if I'll even care to get those depending on how fun or not fun the challenges are. Also, the rare drops have a pretty high drop rate (in comparison to other games) because I did farm for a couple things before I knew of the merchant.

I'm pretty far into the game and there's not an issue keeping your resources in check. I have like 5 stacks of wood, blaze, etc and I still have plenty of room for everything. Occasionally I sell some stacks to get back down to like 5 stacks. You can sell all of the flowers unless you make resistance potions, which I don't. Anything green is not going to be needed for anything really good, and green stuff is easy enough to get just from normal play. I keep a few lenses of each enemy just in case but at this point, I know I don't need them. They are pretty cheap to buy anyways and getting them is pretty easy too. Also, that glass the humans drop is pretty useless when trading, you can sell that too. I think the you can use the glass to buy like the dirty buckets and stuff (you know, that merchant) but trading that stuff to that other guy is pretty useless. I did it once and the reward box was pretty lame. I keep my resources at a steady 80/100 after selling stuff like the ancient goods to traders.
I should have clarified this in my original post: I tend to be an completionist. I don't necessarily give a damn about achievements, but seeing something like carry capacity not being maxed out across the board drives me up the wall for some reason. I do use all the weapons, and I certainly enjoy the big carrying capacity, but maybe some of those upgrades are not strictly needed.
What I meant to say was that the process of acquiring upgrade materials should not be dependent on random chance like it is; regular farming/grinding is fine with me (if a little lame), but HZD relies on a system that randomly spawns different animals every time you enter the same location, which makes it a bother to find the animal in question in the first place, and when you do finally find one and it then doesn't drop what you need so you have to look for another specimen all over again, that's what I detest.

As for the goose skin, you need it to upgrade the ammo pouch for the Tearblaster, a special purple weapon (designed for blasting components off machines) you get from some quest or other, I forgot. (It's not the Weapons Of The Lodge assignment.) I don't know if the game will hand out any other special weapons besides this one, but it does appear they use their own dedicated ammo pouches.
 

Kreett

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Zhukov said:
Kreett said:
I am at a rough 80% completion and I've only had a single instance of fps drops or stuttering, it runs like a dream even if very rarely it has texture popins if you go running too far too fast after a loading screen
Was that one instance in the house in Meridian?
No it was in a cave full of cultists, angry machines, explosions, and fire. So I forgave it