I thought the moral was "This entire world is basically run by dicks." Ulfric is a dick, the Emperor is a dick, the gods are dicks, the Thalmor are dicks, the dragons are dicks, and you, the player, are the dickiest dick of them all.
The moral behind Skyrim's two factions
- Thread starter Substitute Troll
- Start date
Fair enough. Though I still don't get the whole "nazi" thing to Stormcloaks but whatever. It was a nice debate.Amaror said:
Substitute Troll said:
well, when I first started playing I went to the Imperials for their quest as the misc. quest guide told me to, then to the stormcloaks as it showed that too in the pause menu. When I went to the Imperials the feeling I got was "Grrr we love Skyrim and hate anyone not born here or that doesn't like the empire! the Thalmor are a nessecary evil until we can find a way to get rid of them!" and then I went to the storm cloaks and got litterally this from a captain at one of their camps. "Oi, if you're truly a daughter of Skyrim you'll join our force and destroy the dirty monsters that want to destroy us, and we'll kill all those filthy creatures. The Dunmer, (my char) the shifty shady Khajiit who are all thieves, all the rest of the dirty elves and the imperials and Argonians alike should be eliminated from the snowy mountains of Skyrim!"
so my choices were "you suck cuz you're not from here" and "ALL DUNMER SHOULD BE KILLED, btw join up with us"
. . . yeah, imperials all the way unless I am playing an actual Nord. If that ever happens it'll be Stormcloak probably, depending on the char I am Roleplaying, otherwise fuck Ulfric and his little friends
If you don't like the Thalmor, then you have to side with the Empire. Ulfric is an agent of the Thalmor, and has been ever since he was captured and interrogated by them during the war. The Stormcloak Rebellion is keeping the Empire's resources and attention diverted from the true threat.
While Ulfric isn't under the strict control of the Thalmor, he is serving their interests by killing Imperials, and by denying the Empire a good portion of Skyrim's fighting men.
While Ulfric isn't under the strict control of the Thalmor, he is serving their interests by killing Imperials, and by denying the Empire a good portion of Skyrim's fighting men.
I took the side of the Stormcloaks because:
The Empire try to kill you in the opening
I followed the Stormcloak man out of the tutorial area
and the Empire are "allies" with the Thalmor, who where one of the main quest antagonists.
The Stormcloak side of things was all I was exposed to.
I was told that the Imperials where driving them off their land and banning their primary religion.
Ironically I didnt even realize that Ulfric and his Nords where prejucdice towards my own people (the Dunmer) and sectioned them off to their own corner of his city, until after I joined the Rebels.
It wasnt a major concern of mine, but it did annoy me for a while.
But after being decorated as an officer of his army I forgave him.
Then I finished the Questline and killed Tullius, who before his demise explained that he and the empire where the only ones keeping the Thalmor out of Skyrim.
I was more than alittle regretful of my decision to join the Rebels...
And extreamly pissed that they had used me as a pawn to further Ulfric's own infulence rather than help the people of Skyrim.
So I put on General Tullius' armor, took up arms and slaughtered all the Stormcloak rebels in Solitude.
I will not be made a fool of by these barbaric nords.
The Empire try to kill you in the opening
I followed the Stormcloak man out of the tutorial area
and the Empire are "allies" with the Thalmor, who where one of the main quest antagonists.
The Stormcloak side of things was all I was exposed to.
I was told that the Imperials where driving them off their land and banning their primary religion.
Ironically I didnt even realize that Ulfric and his Nords where prejucdice towards my own people (the Dunmer) and sectioned them off to their own corner of his city, until after I joined the Rebels.
It wasnt a major concern of mine, but it did annoy me for a while.
But after being decorated as an officer of his army I forgave him.
Then I finished the Questline and killed Tullius, who before his demise explained that he and the empire where the only ones keeping the Thalmor out of Skyrim.
I was more than alittle regretful of my decision to join the Rebels...
And extreamly pissed that they had used me as a pawn to further Ulfric's own infulence rather than help the people of Skyrim.
So I put on General Tullius' armor, took up arms and slaughtered all the Stormcloak rebels in Solitude.
I will not be made a fool of by these barbaric nords.
I joined the stormcloaks, because I love Nordic mythology and I would NEVER abandon a god just because some little piece of paper told me to, or some little pointy eared pussy Elf. I believe that taking a god from a religion is wrong, just because the god is another race. I would rather die killing somebody because they think they can make me abandon a god from my religion than sitting doing nothing.
Also because, why join the Empire? It's dead! the Empire consists of people that kiss the Elves a$$. And besides you kill the Emperor in the DB anyway.
But I hate how the Civil war ends after Solitude, here is what went through my mind during the ending:
"Ok, Ulfiric gives a speech praising me. Cool. Blah blah blah keep talkin. Oh cool I go to their camps and kill them! Wait. No more? We don't march to Summerset Isle? F*ck you, you are the high king, you just have to force the Jarls to say Yes in the Moot and you are the High King! And you don't lead a march into the capital of the Dominion? What the hell did I just fight for? So I fought so he can get a fancy crown, and still sit in Windhelm?" and every time I walk past him in the Palace of the Kings I always think to myself "You B*tch".
Also because, why join the Empire? It's dead! the Empire consists of people that kiss the Elves a$$. And besides you kill the Emperor in the DB anyway.
But I hate how the Civil war ends after Solitude, here is what went through my mind during the ending:
"Ok, Ulfiric gives a speech praising me. Cool. Blah blah blah keep talkin. Oh cool I go to their camps and kill them! Wait. No more? We don't march to Summerset Isle? F*ck you, you are the high king, you just have to force the Jarls to say Yes in the Moot and you are the High King! And you don't lead a march into the capital of the Dominion? What the hell did I just fight for? So I fought so he can get a fancy crown, and still sit in Windhelm?" and every time I walk past him in the Palace of the Kings I always think to myself "You B*tch".
The catch is, while both sides have an excellent moral basis for what they do (or at least an excellent casus belli), the action of the stormcloaks is actually counterproductive with respect to their aims. With much of the weight of the empire at their side the Nords couldn't win the Great War. All the Stormcloaks actions would accomplish is ensuring Skyrim would stand alone. So, while you might believe in their cause, no true son or daughter of Skyrim would stand with them anymore.Ordinaryundone said:
I've played as multiple characters, each with their own persona, and I haven't sided with ulfric yet. I think a couple of times i even got to his throne, and then, when I met him and remembered how much of a racist asshole he is, turned straight back round and headed for solitude.
It's strange, because before I played skyrim, I was gonna go for the stormcloaks. I hate the government for extremely legitimate, lengthy reasons, and as such, I expected to be all up for a rebellion, but I found myself surprised by how much I hated ulfric.
When reading through what others have said about the issue, they tend to side with ulfric because they hate the thalmor, which I do agree with because the thalmor are just so damn hateable, and while I couldn't really care much less about talos, banning a religion is stupid not to mention morally wrong 90% of the time, but still, ulfric seems to come across as a massive prick, even more so than the thalmor.
It's strange, because before I played skyrim, I was gonna go for the stormcloaks. I hate the government for extremely legitimate, lengthy reasons, and as such, I expected to be all up for a rebellion, but I found myself surprised by how much I hated ulfric.
When reading through what others have said about the issue, they tend to side with ulfric because they hate the thalmor, which I do agree with because the thalmor are just so damn hateable, and while I couldn't really care much less about talos, banning a religion is stupid not to mention morally wrong 90% of the time, but still, ulfric seems to come across as a massive prick, even more so than the thalmor.
Me I wen't for the stromcloaks mainly because both sides are practically the same but differ with one key point.
The Empire is and has always been racist they basically invaded black marsh, allowed dunmer to enslave both the argonians and Khajit without batting an eye then led several wars on a foreign nation across the sea.
The Stormcloaks are generally insulting to anyone not a nord but when someone actually starts working to the benefit of the community they are slowly accepted.
The key differnece between the two is that the empire has a long history of subjegation and racesim wheras the Stormcloaks have just started and there is nothing to say that they won't change. Also for those who support the idea that a unified empire is needed to defeat the elves you do know that all the beast races have left, the redguards have left, the dunmer have no home nor military to give aid and nords are rebelling. Even if the nords don't leave the Empire it is still only a broken husk compared to what it once was and even when they were at their best they couldn't defeat the Thalamor what does that tell you.
The Empire is and has always been racist they basically invaded black marsh, allowed dunmer to enslave both the argonians and Khajit without batting an eye then led several wars on a foreign nation across the sea.
The Stormcloaks are generally insulting to anyone not a nord but when someone actually starts working to the benefit of the community they are slowly accepted.
The key differnece between the two is that the empire has a long history of subjegation and racesim wheras the Stormcloaks have just started and there is nothing to say that they won't change. Also for those who support the idea that a unified empire is needed to defeat the elves you do know that all the beast races have left, the redguards have left, the dunmer have no home nor military to give aid and nords are rebelling. Even if the nords don't leave the Empire it is still only a broken husk compared to what it once was and even when they were at their best they couldn't defeat the Thalamor what does that tell you.
The stormcloaks are a mildly racist group, yes. But racism isn't part of their ideology like the Nazis. I would say the stormcloaks as a whole are as racist as my own people, Australians.
But I would sure as hell side with them over an oppressive government executing people for their religion. The people who claim the empire is the only chance to stop the Thalmor don't stop and think that the empire probably doesn't have a hope, the thalmors spy's are all through the empire acting legally as ambassadors and the Thalmor wanted the empire to sign the white gold concordat before the great war. The empire is nothing but Thalmor puppets at this point and I don't honestly believe they will still be around in the next Elder Scrolls... The Empire allows the Thalmor to torture and kidnap anyone they want to and all the empire does is turn a blind eye. If all I can do to fight the Thalmor is to get them out of Skyrim then I will do it.
Mind you, The book Bear of Makarth has me unsure about Ulfric as a person... But I don't understand why people act like the Stormcloaks are evil and the Empire good.
But I would sure as hell side with them over an oppressive government executing people for their religion. The people who claim the empire is the only chance to stop the Thalmor don't stop and think that the empire probably doesn't have a hope, the thalmors spy's are all through the empire acting legally as ambassadors and the Thalmor wanted the empire to sign the white gold concordat before the great war. The empire is nothing but Thalmor puppets at this point and I don't honestly believe they will still be around in the next Elder Scrolls... The Empire allows the Thalmor to torture and kidnap anyone they want to and all the empire does is turn a blind eye. If all I can do to fight the Thalmor is to get them out of Skyrim then I will do it.
Mind you, The book Bear of Makarth has me unsure about Ulfric as a person... But I don't understand why people act like the Stormcloaks are evil and the Empire good.
To be honest when I roleplay joining the stormcloacks I am usaully thinking along the lines of not abandoning the Empire but reforming it. My characters thinks the current empire is too weak and corrupt to be able to fight the Thalmor so the best course of action is for the Nords to unite under a new stronger high king(Ulfric, because how could someone with a cool name like that be a bad king). Once the Nords are united and Skyrim has it's Independence then they will lead the fight against the empire with the Dragonborn at their head, other factions such as hammerfell and the current weak empire will gather around them and once the thalmor threat is beaten back they will form a new Empire just like before. Talos was a Nord!
I usaully enjoy roleplaying that kind of scenario with my Nord characters. Assuming the whole game is finished then Skyrim would be united under Ulfric and ready to fight with all it's strength with a charismatic leader to fuel the peoples passion. They would also have a Dragonborn with many words of power and at least two dragons to fight the Thalmor with(Odaving and Durneveir).
Realistically I would support the Empire as they are probably the better choice but most of the time I play Nord characters and roleplay that scenario.
I usaully enjoy roleplaying that kind of scenario with my Nord characters. Assuming the whole game is finished then Skyrim would be united under Ulfric and ready to fight with all it's strength with a charismatic leader to fuel the peoples passion. They would also have a Dragonborn with many words of power and at least two dragons to fight the Thalmor with(Odaving and Durneveir).
Realistically I would support the Empire as they are probably the better choice but most of the time I play Nord characters and roleplay that scenario.
Thus far, my Dunmer is leaning towards Stormcloaks. It's still early in my game, my first run through in fact, and I've mostly only seen the Empire cause shit. We'll see how things progress or if I even pick one, as they both seem terrible from what I've read, especially if one's aim is to fight off the Thalmor. It'll have to wait though, as I put my Skyrim on pause while I play Deus Ex Human Revolution.
Also, from what I've seen, there really is no right answer. So why do people keep insisting there is?
Also, from what I've seen, there really is no right answer. So why do people keep insisting there is?
Im all about liberating the weak and dispatching justice amongst an evil empire. You would think stomcloak would of been an easy decision for me. If not the obvious one for a typical video game hero experience. The problem and grey area here in skyrim is that in elder scrolls and all other video games your so used to defeating the evil empire...except in this games case their stand om politics isn't really all that wrong. I agree that the empire is the lesser of two evils. But the problme here is Ulfric is NOT a likeable guy. Hes not a good leader, his hands are dirty, and he admits it. He feels more tyrant then revolutionary. I think if the storm cloaks had a more charasmatic leader they would be the obvious choice for most if not the clear majority of gamers. Just one of those little script writing choices that makes skyrim so brilliant.
in my play throughs i've gone stormcloaks and neutral but could never stand going imperial. i viewed the aldmeri as the real enemy, the kind that actually might have an eye toward eventual genocide when they got full control. With that in mind the empire as it exists felt like a puppet state of the thalmor, fighting back against them would be impossible until their agents/embassies/forts/prisons/spies/military forces were kicked out. and if the good people of hammerfell could fight of the thalmor then why not the nords