Jandau said:
Honestly, there is no justification for joining the Stormcloaks other than "My character is a racist and/or moron"...
I feel that way about the Empire.
Lets look at their negatives:
-Abondoned Hammerfell, and half of their main military power (Other half being Skyrim. High Rock is their mages, but Cyrodiil itself got raped in the great war. By isolating their military power, they are basically asking for the Thalmor to kill them.
-Draining Skyrim's resources to maintain a failing empire with little authority that, whilst they may want to rise up against the Thalmor eventually, are currently the Thalmor's ***** well and truly. If the Thalmor want something done, the empire will do it. No question. If they don't, they get annihilation. Skyrim would be better off on its own, as it would have all its resources for itself rather than spread among a failing empire.
-Many of their secrets and plans have indefinitely been stolen by Thalmor. You don't honestly believe the Thalmor only take prisoners of those who worship Talos? No, they too would be preparing for a new war - they aren't so short sighted as to not see it coming - and would be taking numerous people that they believe hold information that they would need to win that war. Empire's secrets belong to the Thalmor.
-Cultural Genocide. Sure, they may be forced into doing it, but the empire is destroying all Talos culture, or keeping it that well hidden that it might as well not matter. If the empire doesn't act out against Talos worship, the Thalmor will go to war with them. As such, they hide all the Talos worship they can, punish those they can't, and let the Thalmor find their hidden Talos worshippers and kill them.
-Would lead to incompetent rule of Skyrim. When the war is over, who will lead Skyrim? General Tullius? I sure hope not. Elisif? She doesn't even know how to run her own hold, let alone an entire nation, and she is the obvious choice for the Moot Jarls to elect. Some politician bought in by the Empire? Further ruin the trust you have with the Nords by destroying more of their traditions, go on. There most likely will not be a good ruler of Skyrim once the war is over if the Imperials win. The only option would be for someone like Bulgraaf to take the throne, but you can see Elisif has her eyes on it, and who's to say what will happen if she doesn't get her way? Lets hope her advisors can still keep her in check.
Now, the common complaints against the Stormcloaks:
-They're Racist Nazi's.
Really? Last I checked they weren't killing a cultural sect en mass for little reason, that was the Empire and the Thalmor. No, they are merely very cautious of other nations - with good reason. Morrowind is being invaded by the Argonians, The Thalmor are trying to destroy their culture and eventually them, and the other races would end up burdening Skyrim after the war, with them running to her from their own wars in places like Morrowind. In addition, they are only nationalist against non humans, seeing as all humans on Tamriel came from Skyrim they are all their brothers and sisters in a sense. He also does not go out and try to kill the other races unless they are at war with him, he will just not lend them his aid, preferring to keep his resources for the war and let them take care of their own problems.
-Ulfric is in it for Ulfric.
Which is why he turns down being instantly crowned king of Skyrim, and says to let the Moot decide, all the time sounding like he knows it might not go his way, despite his advisors confidence. Yes, there is a pretty good chance it will go his way, but that is not bad. He is a good leader. Look at the Stormcloaks, they managed to get half of Skyrim on their side thanks to his leadership. He is charismatic and confident, and a good warrior. He would be a better commander in a war against the Thalmor than anyone else due to his ability to rally the Nords to his call, and his physical and mental warrior prowess. His voice also gives him an advantage over the normal warrior.
-Ulfric's Dossier implies he is a Thalmor spy.
No. It implies he was captured and manipulated by the Thalmor, and was then further manipulated into attacking Markarth after his release. It also implies that he no longer responds to them, and they do not want him to win the war (Or the empire), as either way it would be bad for them. They know he is not their pawn, if he was they would get him to win the war so that they would control Skyrim. What Ulfric's dossier implies is that he has an understanding of how the Thalmor interrogate and manipulate, and will have a greater hatred for them than most, whilst still being willing to listen to them (Even though he is so racist he would go all genocidal on their ass like Hitler >.>) but being far more cautious about it thanks to his experience of them manipulating them.
What would Stormcloak victory mean:
-United Skyrim [Moot would elect high King/Queen. In the end whoever was elected would be trusted by other Jarls, possible exception Elisif]
-Lead by one of Skyrim's own, likely Ulfric [Leader trusted by people, competent enough to win a civil war, capable of winning people's loyalty]
-Possible alliance with Hammerfell, combining the main military mights of the old empire together into one force. [Might possibly lead to rebellion in High Rock, leaving the mages of the old Empire to join in with Skyrim and Hammerfell]
-Skyrim would be supporting herself and not her failing allies. [Resources conserved for allies in just as strong a position or self, dependent on how things play out]
-Weakened Skyrim and Empire Military
-Talos worship allowed, Talos blessing may be bestowed more often to others. [Talos does have a blessing, and is real. Glitch in game makes his blessing out to be 0% bonus. This is a display error. Actual bonus is 20%. Would not affect non-Thu'um warriors, but Talos is god of Courage and Honour or something. That would affect them, and give them strength]
-Thalmor kicked out of Skyrim, unable to manipulate her leaders or people.
-Cyrodiil almost certain to fall. [Thalmor attack near certain. Cyrodiil will fall, Skyrim and Hammerfell and possibly High Rock will remain strong]
Empire Victory:
-United Skyrim [Jarls would all be united by the empire. If Moot is called, all will be happy with new leader, possible exception Elisif if it is not her]
-Leadership likely of poor quality [Elisif is the worst choice of a leader, but any Imperial as a leader will get Skyrim hostile against them as it is not their way]
-Alliance with Hammerfell out of the question [Hammerfell is at war with the Thalmor, whilst Skyrim would be sucking up to them with the rest of the Empire. High Rock highly unlikely to rebel]
-Skyrim's resources sent to failing Cyrodiil in attempt to revive.
-Weakened Skyrim and Empire Military
-Talos worship slowly ratted out until only small pockets of isolated worshippers remain. [Thalmor goal of removing Talos worship complete, no warrior gaining bonus from worshipping Talos nor any confidence or comfort from such. Any who do eventually found by Thalmor and taken away]
-Thalmor now have firm hold on Skyrim and her leaders [Skyrim held by WG-C, Thalmor have right to do pretty much anything they want in Skyrim]
-Cyrodiil stabilised, but greatly weakened and relying heavily on Skyim and High Rock, draining their resources. [Near perfect time for Thalmor to attack after a few years, when all nations are weakened by supporting Cyrodiil]
All round, I can only foresee things being worse if the Empire wins, both for Skyrim and for Tamriel as a whole. I'm not being racist or moronic, but I am looking at a large picture and at how things could play out beyond the simple 'Ulfric is nationalist, empire is not' sort of outlook.
