The Moral Cost of Cats, or, How a Man Calls For the Killing of Cats

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Fieldy409

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When I was there, a Kiwi pointed out bits of forest where loads of the trees were either dead or stripped bare - they said that was the possums. I think they'd happily annihilate them from the country if they could. All in all, I wouldn't mind if they did, for reasons already stated in an earlier post.
No possums scratching trees would probably make spreading a lot harder for fungus that grows in trees I imagine.
 

Fieldy409

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Well, I personally wouldn't want to be desexed.
I wish we could get vasectomies for the tomcats, I hate the idea of cutting the balls off entirely and denying them testosterone when I know how depressed low testosterone makes men.
 

Agema

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I wish we could get vasectomies for the tomcats, I hate the idea of cutting the balls off entirely and denying them testosterone when I know how depressed low testosterone makes men.
The species difference might mean they're not terribly bothered where humans are - possibly because they have much less cognitive capability to understand what they're missing.

Cats, by many cognitive tests, are relatively stupid creatures.
 

Avnger

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The species difference might mean they're not terribly bothered where humans are - possibly because they have much less cognitive capability to understand what they're missing.

Cats, by many cognitive tests, are relatively stupid creatures.
I am not a scientist, but I do have plenty of anecdotal evidence for that last point.
 

Specter Von Baren

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The species difference might mean they're not terribly bothered where humans are - possibly because they have much less cognitive capability to understand what they're missing.

Cats, by many cognitive tests, are relatively stupid creatures.
How do they compare to other common house pets?

I am not a scientist, but I do have plenty of anecdotal evidence for that last point.
Well of course the dog would say that. :sneaky:
 

Agema

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How do they compare to other common house pets?
Measuring animal intelligence is extremely tricky. We have to use various types of proxies, like memory capability, problem solving, understanding cause and effect relationships etc. Maybe some of them just "don't care". Imagine a test that requires visual recognition: a crow might do better than a dog, but that might be because a crow relies more on sight for sensory input, where a dog maybe uses smell and hearing proportionally more. Bear in mind many household and farmyard animals, some birds, can outperform human children up to about 7 in many of these cognitive tests, but they also clearly aren't capable of sorts of intellectual accomplishment 7-year-old children are, so big pinches of salt are required.

Cats appear to have pretty good memories, but weak understanding of cause and effect, pretty bad at problem solving, and seem to be very hard to teach and train. By and large, they're worse than dogs in these categories (and rats in some). On the other hand, cats seem to show more initiative and intuition than dogs. This perhaps makes sense when we consider cats are more solitary hunters where dogs are pack animals.

I doubt you'll find many reputable animal behaviorists attempting to clearly rank animal intelligence because comparison is so difficult. What seems safe is that primates are superior to most animals. After that, gets much less clear. Elephants, dolphins (and whales?) are usually regarded a cut above. Then we're into the mass of many mammals - pigs, cats, dogs, etc. plus also some birds (e.g. crows), and octopuses. Some have argued octopuses might be about as or even more intelligent than elephants, but they're particularly hard to compare as they're just so different.
 
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Fieldy409

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The species difference might mean they're not terribly bothered where humans are - possibly because they have much less cognitive capability to understand what they're missing.

Cats, by many cognitive tests, are relatively stupid creatures.
I'm not talking about being sad, like I think it can cause actual depression. Or something like it. When your testosterone drops you feel awful from what I hear. I've seen some testimonies from men who lost the ability to naturally create testosterone often due to having testicular cancer and they say you feel awful if you miss the injection of artifical testosterone even once a day.
 

Agema

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I'm not talking about being sad, like I think it can cause actual depression. Or something like it. When your testosterone drops you feel awful from what I hear. I've seen some testimonies from men who lost the ability to naturally create testosterone often due to having testicular cancer and they say you feel awful if you miss the injection of artifical testosterone even once a day.
I'm not sure there's a clear and consistent link between low testosterone and depression - studies appear mixed. It is possible some men and women with low testosterone may be inclined to depression, but others aren't. Although testosterone does affect mood, some of it might still be an "indirect" effect - for instance perhaps low testosterone reduces their motivation to do certain things they enjoy, so they do fewer things they enjoy, and become unhappy.
 

immortalfrieza

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There is a reason wantonly killing stray animals and instead using Trap-Neuter-Release is how most of the civilized world deals with population control for animals. It just makes more move into the area and because there's less competition for resources they breed more often. In other words it's counter productive.

Besides, if cats are an "invasive" species then that's nature just taking it's course. If other animals can't avoid extinction when another animal moves into the area then they will either adapt or go extinct, that's how evolution works.
 

Agema

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There is a reason wantonly killing stray animals and instead using Trap-Neuter-Release is how most of the civilized world deals with population control for animals.
It doesn't work for cats, because humans release enough (via pets) into the environment to keep them breeding,

Besides, if cats are an "invasive" species then that's nature just taking it's course. If other animals can't avoid extinction when another animal moves into the area then they will either adapt or go extinct, that's how evolution works.
It's patently not "nature" if we artificially release a creature into a new ecology that it otherwise couldn't have got to with our intervention.
 

Tsun Tzu

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I've had enough birds attempt to kill themselves by ramming into my windshield, the side of my car, or just sitting in the road, that I'm inclined to believe cat's aren't all that effective at hunting them. They're practically gift-wrapped balls of feathers and meat.

That and I keep getting woken up by chirping early in the morning. Therefore, I've a radical suggestion.

More cats.
 

Baffle

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I wish we could get vasectomies for the tomcats, I hate the idea of cutting the balls off entirely and denying them testosterone when I know how depressed low testosterone makes men.
My dog's got no balls and he's the happiest mother fucker going. Every day is a 100% bouncing-off-the-walls laugh extravaganza.

I, on the other hand, have balls, and I'm miserable a great deal of the time.

I tell you what my dog doesn't have to do. He doesn't have to go to work.
 
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