The Moral System

[Jinxzy]

If you'd pocket a $20 bill lying on the ground (and you WOULD, you hypocrites), why would doing so to a jacket be much different?

I seen people lose money before and chase people down to give it back to them. This one guy in a parking lost opened his wallet to tip a cab and some of his money blew out, a few 50$ and smaller bills. I ran around with him scooping up the bills to give it back to him. Even if I see money on the ground and didn't know who dropped it I turn it into the closest store it was found at.

Some people have said cause there is no attachment to the money, but I feel as if I didn't earn it. It's no mine.

 

[chadachada123]

If you'd pocket a $20 bill lying on the ground (and you WOULD, you hypocrites), why would doing so to a jacket be much different?

I seen people lose money before and chase people down to give it back to them. This one guy in a parking lost opened his wallet to tip a cab and some of his money blew out, a few 50$ and smaller bills. I ran around with him scooping up the bills to give it back to him. Even if I see money on the ground and didn't know who dropped it I turn it into the closest store it was found at.

Some people have said cause there is no attachment to the money, but I feel as if I didn't earn it. It's no mine.

It seems I was mistaken. You, sir, are not a hypocrite in this discussion, and I applaud you for you sticking to your guns. I would definitely help someone if their money was lost right in front of me, too. I make it a point to help people when possible.

That said, I, personally, don't feel that it's a moral *necessity* to help when the victim is unknown and the item was lost seemingly hours ago. And, at least in the case of money, it'd be next-to-impossible to correctly trace to the original owner without a huge chance of someone lying about losing money. Whoops, ended up just defending the very people I just called hypocrites >.>

 

[General Twinkletoes]

Depends. If I see money on the ground, I'm not going to say "Hey guys, who's 10$ is this?" and then it apparently belongs to everyone.
Something easy to identify like a wallet or a jacket is a different story though.

 

[DoPo]

So my question to you wonderful people is have you ever had this happen to you? That your moral compass turns you around cause you know it's wrong. Have you kept things you wish you haven't? Or is it finders keepers?

Once I found a silver bracelet on the ground. I didn't keep it though, partly because I thought was ugly and partly because I thought it would have been too precious for the person who lost it (after all, they had worn it, so it must have been extremely valuable). I would have returned the jacket too. If not for any other reason, imagine wearing it and the owner recognises it. But, no, I'd prefer if the owner didn't mourn its loss in the first place. I know I'd hate it if my jacket got lost or stolen. I only have two, after all. I found a wallet once and contacted the owner immediately (he had his library card for Uni in there with his email address). And another time, I lost my wallet and got it back pretty much the same way.

But anything that's unlikely to be missed, I probably wouldn't mind taking. Money, especially. And partly because I don't think turning in money would do any good. How do you even find the original owner? But computer mice, headphones, newspapers, that sort of thing I've got for myself a lot of times.

Oh wait. I did steal someone's pen once. People in the library sometimes leave their junk at tables and then go off somewhere else like a class or something and save the spot, meaning one less seat for other people. So I got annoyed and took someone's pen because of that. But that wasn't an instance of finders keepers so much as I really dislike people who are so inconsiderate.

I haven't bought a pen in years. I keep finding them and losing them. I'm almost convinced that there are some pens that circulate around in any establishment.

 

[SuperNova221]

I steal stationary all the time and don't feel bad for it because, well, it's stationary. If people leave it they generally don't even notice it's missing. Somehow, I think people would, in general, notice if they left their jacket and be quite disappointed if they couldn't get it back.

 

[IndomitableSam]

Worked in a store once, someone left behind a shopping bag full of clothes. We searched the bag, called the store on the reciept and told them we had it in case anyone was looking and put it aside. Months later, we looked at it again, discussed, and gave it to the person who would fit them.

I figure there's a time limit for claiming things. Money, if no one knows who dropped it and is just a random bill flopping around, is a free-for-all. I feel bad for whomever lost it, but you can't prove it was yours most of the time. If I find money in a mall, I usually dump it in the closest donation bin I can find.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Ive left a gift behind for my girlfriend before in a shop. Stolen. Today she left some chocolate in a bag in a shop and it was also stolen. Ive vowed that i would never do this because the idea that someones robbed you of something no matter how small is terrible especially when its a gift for someone. The people who do this are filth and i have very little respect for them. Justify your theft however you want thief, but if you let your phone out of sight for ONE SECOND and its gone you cant complain. Lets hear "finders keepers" when its your crap being taken. Youd think people would be decent.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

I stole $15 in 1st grade, it was some kid's excursion money. I confessed sortly after the teacher went through my bag and didn't find it. That was one of the few things I've stolen in my life and I'm generally against stealing unless it belongs to someone with lots of money who didn't "truly" earn it. I would contribute this instance to be one of the sole reasons I'm against stealing.

About 6 months ago I found $50 on the ground and felt pretty bad about keeping it, even though I assumed it was from a rich miner. Taking it to the police would be pointless, and I would have notified the person if I seen them drop it (I always do)... So I don't really consider that to be against my morals.

I can't really speak of anything else.

Scenario. You see a rich looking man walk in front of you. He looks frail and old. He has a wallet in his hands. You are alone in a dark alley. Do you mug him and run if i could tell you that you would 100% get away with it? Its not ok to steal even from those who have a lot. What is your definition of truly earning?

Sorry for double post.

 

[F4LL3N]

I stole $15 in 1st grade, it was some kid's excursion money. I confessed sortly after the teacher went through my bag and didn't find it. That was one of the few things I've stolen in my life and I'm generally against stealing unless it belongs to someone with lots of money who didn't "truly" earn it. I would contribute this instance to be one of the sole reasons I'm against stealing.

About 6 months ago I found $50 on the ground and felt pretty bad about keeping it, even though I assumed it was from a rich miner. Taking it to the police would be pointless, and I would have notified the person if I seen them drop it (I always do)... So I don't really consider that to be against my morals.

I can't really speak of anything else.

Scenario. You see a rich looking man walk in front of you. He looks frail and old. He has a wallet in his hands. You are alone in a dark alley. Do you mug him and run if i could tell you that you would 100% get away with it? Its not ok to steal even from those who have a lot. What is your definition of truly earning?

Sorry for double post.

I wouldn't mug anyone, since that's almost a completely different crime. At least in my eyes. There's no specific situation where I would steal from anyone. I'm just stating I wouldn't feel bad about it if I ever did.

My definition of 'truly earning'? Well I know most people with wealth either exploited people to get it, or are doing something/invented something that shouldn't be earning them so much. Most products and services are overpriced. No actor/sports person/etc, should earn millions. It seems the harder you work, the less you get paid. My ideal economic system would be one where businesses are severely limited in their ability to profit. Only earning enough to pay employees, obtain new stock, and over time enough to expand (since that benefits society.) Anyway, that's going off topic.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

I stole $15 in 1st grade, it was some kid's excursion money. I confessed sortly after the teacher went through my bag and didn't find it. That was one of the few things I've stolen in my life and I'm generally against stealing unless it belongs to someone with lots of money who didn't "truly" earn it. I would contribute this instance to be one of the sole reasons I'm against stealing.

About 6 months ago I found $50 on the ground and felt pretty bad about keeping it, even though I assumed it was from a rich miner. Taking it to the police would be pointless, and I would have notified the person if I seen them drop it (I always do)... So I don't really consider that to be against my morals.

I can't really speak of anything else.

Scenario. You see a rich looking man walk in front of you. He looks frail and old. He has a wallet in his hands. You are alone in a dark alley. Do you mug him and run if i could tell you that you would 100% get away with it? Its not ok to steal even from those who have a lot. What is your definition of truly earning?

Sorry for double post.

I wouldn't mug anyone, since that's almost a completely different crime. At least in my eyes. There's no specific situation where I would steal from anyone. I'm just stating I wouldn't feel bad about it if I ever did.

My definition of 'truly earning'? Well I know most people with wealth either exploited people to get it, or are doing something/invented something that shouldn't be earning them so much. Most products and services are overpriced. No actor/sports person/etc, should earn millions. It seems the harder you work, the less you get paid. My ideal economic system would be one where businesses are severely limited in their ability to profit. Only earning enough to pay employees, obtain new stock, and over time enough to expand (since that benefits society.) Anyway, that's going off topic.

If you wouldnt feel bad about it why wouldnt you? Not to mention if i create something im perfectly entitled to charge whatever i want for it even if its a bajillion dollars. Because its mine. And if people dont want to spend a bajillion dollars i dont get to sell it pure and simple. If people are willing to pay the amount they do for a service who are you to attack the person providing the service for setting the price that people are willing to pay. Ill agree with you on actor or sports person because the skill put in and the help to society are pretty damn small and contribute almost nothing. Even the Ipad helped move forward portable technology so that can contribute something to society. Sports contribute zero.

"Doing something or inventing something that shouldnt be earning them so much". I'm not to sure how to respond to this, if you invent something you can go ahead and do whatever you want from it because its yours. If you were selling your car and i said "You are charging too much, you wont truly earn the money, i wouldnt feel bad stealing it from you, so you have to mark it down to what i think is fair" that would be rediculous.

And the mugging isnt totally different. The man is old, just take the wallet, you dont have to hurt him, just snatch and grab. Take the money from the old defenceless man. He probably made it by selling something he made for a price he deemed reasonable to people willing to pay that price.

 

[LtWigglesworth]

I've picked up portable HD's left in computer labs and handed them in to the office at uni, but first I've always checked for any music or movies I might like...

 

[F4LL3N]

SNIP

I could do it. But I have no interest at this current time, seeing how money isn't that important to me. They can charge whatever they want. Just don't expect me to feel obligated to care about their true entitlement to said money, and whether or not they lose it. Apparently, by your standards, drug dealers also earn the money they make even though they exploit people's addictions. Health insurance companies earn the money they make, even though they exploit people's lives. Banks earn the money they make, even though the fees are ridicious and people more often than not have no choice in the matter.

 

[Bertylicious]

Back when I was in this barbershop quartet in Skookie, Illinois, I had a party with a whole bunch of people and someone left a mini-disc player round my place. I asked everyone whose it was and nobody came forward. I hung onto it for years and nobody claimed it.

Never used it myself. Just didn't feel right.

Eventually, after another party, it mysteriously vanished.

 

[doggy go 7]

Yet my friend keeps laughing cause he thinks it was a weak to take it and not keep it. I know In my heart I know I couldn't live with it, cause hey I would want my jacket back if I lost it.

No offence, but based on that your friend seems like a bit of a prick. Yes you absolutely should've returned it. I think that if you find something in school you should either leave it behind if it's something dumb like a pen (just in case the person who lost it returns), or hand it in if it's big enough to care about.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

SNIP

I could do it. But I have no interest at this current time, seeing how money isn't that important to me. They can charge whatever they want. Just don't expect me to feel obligated to care about their true entitlement to said money, and whether or not they lose it. Apparently, by your standards, drug dealers also earn the money they make even though they exploit people's addictions. Health insurance companies earn the money they make, even though they exploit people's lives. Banks earn the money they make, even though the fees are ridicious and people more often than not have no choice in the matter.

I draw the line when people have NO choice in the matter, that to me amounts to blackmail, IE pay for the medicine or DIE. The examples i used are when competition is there to allow anyone to charge what they want. If a monopoly is present or price fixing is occuring this violates my rules and yeah, fuck em. Exploiting addictions only works if the drug is illegal as this stifles competition. Not to mention its totally your choice if you wanna get addicted in the first place. Unless you were coerced or forced which violates the rule above of blackmail.

Theres a difference between not caring if they lose money and not caring about actively depriving them of money by taking it. Thats integral to me. I dont give a shit if the ciggarrete industry starts hemoraging money because it fails. I do give a shit about taking money they have earned.

 

[F4LL3N]

SNIP

I could do it. But I have no interest at this current time, seeing how money isn't that important to me. They can charge whatever they want. Just don't expect me to feel obligated to care about their true entitlement to said money, and whether or not they lose it. Apparently, by your standards, drug dealers also earn the money they make even though they exploit people's addictions. Health insurance companies earn the money they make, even though they exploit people's lives. Banks earn the money they make, even though the fees are ridicious and people more often than not have no choice in the matter.

I draw the line when people have NO choice in the matter, that to me amounts to blackmail, IE pay for the medicine or DIE. The examples i used are when competition is there to allow anyone to charge what they want. If a monopoly is present or price fixing is occuring this violates my rules and yeah, fuck em. Exploiting addictions only works if the drug is illegal as this stifles competition. Not to mention its totally your choice if you wanna get addicted in the first place. Unless you were coerced or forced which violates the rule above of blackmail.

Theres a difference between not caring if they lose money and not caring about actively depriving them of money by taking it. Thats integral to me. I dont give a shit if the ciggarrete industry starts hemoraging money because it fails. I do give a shit about taking money they have earned.

There's no difference between one company overpricing and ten companies overpricing. I wouldn't think many people choose to become drug addicts and ruin their life. Anyway... You can believe what ever you want to believe. Believing people are entitled to keep the money they earn isn't a bad thing. But at the same time it's not necessarily a bad thing to believe these people don't deserve to be millionaires/billionaires after taking into account all the other factors of life. The average person busts their ass most of their life, constantly getting fucked over just to support their family and one day retire. While you've got Musicians, sports people, etc, simply getting lucky, and than companies arguably exploiting the masses to fill their own pockets... As far as I'm concerned, it's the average worker who keeps society functioning. Sure, people who invent great things help society. But there's only so much they should be rewarded.