The New York Times Criticizes The Last of Us for Having a Male Protagonist

[Dominic Crossman]

Spoiler: VAGUE LAST OF US SPOILERS

Considering about halfway through the game Ellie becomes playable for a large section of the game, and from there on out it flicks between her and Joel for the rest of the game this seems like a really strange claim to make. Ellie is just as much the protagonist as Joel, if not more so.

Spoiler: in reference to previous spoiler

Considering she one of the strongest teen characters (not physically) I've seen in any media what so ever, kicks a ton of ass, as saved Joel multiple times (including during gameplay). In many ways this game is not about Joel or Ellie but about the journey.

Frankly it would've been an excellent (award-winning maybe) movie or book, but because it's a game some moronic, publicity hunting fuckwit has to try and stir up controversy.

 

[shadowuser10141]

"The Last of Us, in its defense, is neither crude nor unsophisticated. Rather, its artfulness and its intelligence make its treatment of women all the more frustrating."

This bit stood out to me, is there anything particularly wrong in its portrayal of women? I get the "another male protagonist" point but that's not poor treatment is it? Not played it yet so no idea. Anyway if the game did have a female protagonist you would probably get people saying "its a sadistic game where the female character is subjected to horrific levels of violence" instead.

Putting females in CoD will probably lead to accusations of Infinity Ward "promoting domestic violence".
Journalists will always find something to complain about.

 

[Garen Truscott]

Fuck's sake, I'm sick of this kind of stuff. I'd consider myself a feminist: I'm all for equality between genders and all. But c'mon, buddy, that's just freakin' ridiculous. The story works perfectly well being seen through Joel's eyes. It's NOT primarily a story about Ellie. It's primarily about Joel trying to deal with the responsibility of caring for Ellie. The main theme of the game, that of parenthood, would be completely stinted by playing as Ellie. Complaining you don't get to play as Ellie is the same as complaining you don't get to play as Clementine in The Walking Dead. If Naughty Dog had wanted to tell that story, they would have.

You've missed the point. The point is that no game wants to tell the story of a Clementine, or an Ellie, or any female protagonist, when they can instead go with yet another male character father figure as the protagonist. If you wanted, you can still tell a story about parenthood, with a grown woman caring for an Ellie or Clementine, but that is unthinkable to game writers. It has to be a man's story, it has to be a male protagonist, and we have to think twice about even putting a female character on the box art, let alone letting them lead in a game. Think I'm wrong? Please point me in the direction of all the game stories featuring female protagonists who look over the age of 30.

Yeah, this is the point that should have been clearly made, but the article messes up the argument by bringing in irrelevancies about the treatment of the female characters in the game. If I was a journalist writing about the issue I would not have made the argument in reference to The Last Of Us. There are so many good examples where female characters aren't well presented or poorly written.

 

[Dominic Crossman]

I've got a question
If ellie had been a 14 year old boy instead of a 14 year old girl would anyone have mentioned sexism?

Also if Joel was the one who was gender swapped but the same in every other way people would be bitching how flawed the charcter was and saying "if she was a male protaginist she wouldnt be portray as weak"
I'm sick to death of self righteous people claiming inequality.

Male protaginist (I will look up how spell that word) = shouldve been female
Female protaginst = too sexualised/weak/flawed/uncharcteristic

Off-topic, how in the world do I start a bloody thread?!

 

[Lilani]

Ellie is such an appealing and unusual video game character ? an Ellen Page look-alike voiced expertly by the 29-year-old Ashley Johnson ? that at one point I found myself rooting for Joel to die so that The Last of Us would become her game

Yeah, I don't think it's Naughty Dog that has a problem here.

Anyway...I don't really think it's a reasonable complaint. For one thing, Ellie is fourteen. The fact that she'll go around shanking dudes while making one liners is a bit pushing it as it is (Although somewhat justified due to the setting).

I think their point is that the other character didn't have to be male, he just sort of was. In so many situations changing the sex of the main protagonist does nothing to change the story, so the fact that so many are still opting for the male for some arbitrary reason is still frustrating. It's like the way we were supposed to have been "over" racism a long time ago but you still rarely see black guys as the leading role for a movie unless they are a big star or the movie in some way is about them being black.

I haven't played this yet so I don't know how it works out, or if this judgement is fair, but in regard to games in general I'm all with NYT. This terminal fear of having a female protagonist "just because" needs to stop, as well as using people who aren't white.

 

[Captain Booyah]

The fact that Naughty Dog had to go through so much turmoil just to get her on the cover of the box is a serious issue we need to address and change.

No. It is not an issue. Do you think "the fact coca cola had to use a black color on the coke zero cans is a serious issue we need to address and change"? If not than this isn't an issue either.

The packaging is still to this day an extremely important aspect of marketing. There is no issue whatsoever with someone/a company thinking putting certain characters on the package would lower its marketability.

You missed the point entirely. If a guy is turned off from a product by the mere fact that a woman is on the front cover, that's an issue. They're not judging the game by its genre/story/gameplay/etc., but by something as unimportant as the gender of the protagonist, as though that would somehow make the game worse in some way. That's the assumption that needs tackling. That a significant amount of people apparently connect the quality of a game with what gender the protagonist on the cover happens to be (which is completely irrelevant) is a problem. I'm a woman who buys games with guys on the covers all the time, and I don't give it a second thought -- so why should it be such an issue when it's the other way around? Why isn't it worth being addressed? Of course marketers are going to display what's going to sell, but that doesn't make what they can and can't display right.

Also, I have no idea what that Coke analogy means? Equal representation of colours on Coke cans isn't the same as representation of 50% of the human population in mainstream entertainment.

 

[generals3]

You missed the point entirely. If a guy is turned off from a product by the mere fact that a woman is on the front cover, that's an issue. They're not judging the game by its genre/story/gameplay/etc., but by something as unimportant as the gender of the protagonist, as though that would somehow make the game worse in some way. That's the assumption that needs tackling. That a significant amount of people apparently connect the quality of a game with what gender the protagonist on the cover happens to be (which is completely irrelevant) is a problem. I'm a woman who buys games with guys on the covers all the time, and I don't give it a second thought -- so why should it be such an issue when it's the other way around? Why isn't it worth being addressed? Of course marketers are going to display what's going to sell, but that doesn't make what they can and can't display right.

Also, I have no idea what that Coke analogy means? Equal representation of colours on Coke cans isn't the same as representation of 50% of the human population in mainstream entertainment.

First of all, who says it's about making the game look "worse"? it may simply make it look less appealing (there is a very subtle but important difference). Do men think that coke light is worse than zero because the cans have a lighter color? Off course not, however the dark colors of coke zero are more masculine and thus more likely to make a man think "this is something for me". You're oversimplifying the psychology of marketing. And it's most likely the same with the packaging of videogames. Maybe a woman on the cover makes it appear less "violent" or just doesn't speak to the male audience as much (men maybe want to play as men and nothing sends that message more than having men on the cover).

For many potential buyers the cover will be the first thing they will know about the game. And that's why it's paramount the cover alone sends all the right messages.

And I find your complaint that it is an issue that people will judge the game based on the cover rather than the story/gameplay/etc. rather redundant. Off course ideally people would read reviews before purchasing things, however many buy on impulse or based on minimum information. At that point you better have a good first impression (and thats what the packaging is for).

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

post="9.818827.19726701"]

That reviewer is just an attention seeking hipster if you ask me.

I do ask you, Adam Jensen. I do ask you.

But the question is, did Adam Jensen ask you?

I never seek permission to speak.

Ellie is such an appealing and unusual video game character ? an Ellen Page look-alike voiced expertly by the 29-year-old Ashley Johnson ? that at one point I found myself rooting for Joel to die so that The Last of Us would become her game

Yeah, I don't think it's Naughty Dog that has a problem here.

Anyway...I don't really think it's a reasonable complaint. For one thing, Ellie is fourteen. The fact that she'll go around shanking dudes while making one liners is a bit pushing it as it is (Although somewhat justified due to the setting).

I think their point is that the other character didn't have to be male, he just sort of was. In so many situations changing the sex of the main protagonist does nothing to change the story, so the fact that so many are still opting for the male for some arbitrary reason is still frustrating. It's like the way we were supposed to have been "over" racism a long time ago but you still rarely see black guys as the leading role for a movie unless they are a big star or the movie in some way is about them being black.

I haven't played this yet so I don't know how it works out, or if this judgement is fair, but in regard to games in general I'm all with NYT. This terminal fear of having a female protagonist "just because" needs to stop, as well as using people who aren't white.

Is it actually arbitrary though? I have a feeling that everything you mentioned has a reason behind it, they're just reasons that people don't want to hear.

 

[Lilani]

Is it actually arbitrary though? I have a feeling that everything you mentioned has a reason behind it, they're just reasons that people don't want to hear.

Well yeah, of course it's not arbitrary, it's because they're still using the 90s playbook of demographic aiming which means the protagonist has to be a young white man or otherwise people will just LOSE THEIR MINDS. But in relation to reality in this day and age, it is pretty arbitrary. They seem to think switching up any part of that formula will result in the summoning of the four horsemen, but if they'd just take a peek outside their focus groups for a minute I think they'd see real people are a lot more chill about this stuff than they think.

 

[ckam]

I remember this guy also writing that the female character wasn't a part of the box art. I don't exactly understand what he was saying, I suppose.

 

[Toxic Sniper]

I can kind-of see the ultimate goal the reviewer had (that The Last Of Us still follows tropes despite being hailed as revolutionary), but the reviewer focused on the wrong aspects of the game to make that claim. And I would argue that TLOU handles female characters absolutely fine, at least from the 90 minutes of the game I saw. Female characters can handle themselves in combat, wear a reasonable amount of clothes, and have more than one dimension of character.

They also have a significant impact on the plot through their actions, which is the mark of a strong character.

Spoiler: Major spoilers

The main antagonist is a woman. Note I said antagonist, not villain.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Is it actually arbitrary though? I have a feeling that everything you mentioned has a reason behind it, they're just reasons that people don't want to hear.

Well yeah, of course it's not arbitrary, it's because they're still using the 90s playbook of demographic aiming which means the protagonist has to be a young white man or otherwise people will just LOSE THEIR MINDS. But in relation to reality in this day and age, it is pretty arbitrary. They seem to think switching up any part of that formula will result in the summoning of the four horsemen, but if they'd just take a peek outside their focus groups for a minute I think they'd see real people are a lot more chill about this stuff than they think.

Ha!

Why the hyperbole? The worry isn't that people will "lose their minds", it's just that they won't be interested in what they're selling. If even putting a woman on the cover of a game actually does result in less sales then it's obviously a valid concern for anyone taking anything to market.

Plus, we've had a lot of arguments for games with female protagonists on the basis that females like to play as females, or for black characters because black people might like to play as black characters. I think these arguments are completely fair, I don't think it's awful or bigoted to want to play as something that resembles yourself as closely as possible.

The thing is... is this logic is apparently unacceptable when it comes to explaining why games with white-male leads do well, even though they're the biggest demographic. That's having your cake and eating too.

The "endemic male privilege" or whatever else anyone wants to call it, really does seem to just come down to spending power, both at present and historically in the industry. It's not ideal, but what are you gonna do about it?

 

[Fdzzaigl]

Haven't played this game, so I don't know why they pick it specifically to complain about that issue. But I do find that games go for the "burly guy" protagonists way too often.

I'd love to see more powerful and genuine alternatives, not just mature women but also perhaps younger children (even if put into difficult situations) and less burly men. Honestly, I think that many companies just pick this type of white male protagonist because they're unable to think outside the box, or unjustly think the audience somehow demands it.

 

[StriderShinryu]

I basically said this a couple months ago. Granted, yes, I have not played the game but I feel the same way based on what I have seen. I would much rather be playing the game as Ellie.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Haven't played this game, so I don't know why they pick it specifically to complain about that issue. But I do find that games go for the "burly guy" protagonists way too often.

I'd love to see more powerful and genuine alternatives, not just mature women but also perhaps younger children (even if put into difficult situations) and less burly men. Honestly, I think that many companies just pick this type of white male protagonist because they're unable to think outside the box, or unjustly think the audience somehow demands it.

I realise that I'm posting alot of times in a short space of time(generally I try to avoid that) so I'm sorry if you lot are getting sick of me.

But... how do we know it's unjust? We don't know it's unjust, and I doubt people inside the industry are willing to be as assumptious as your average forum dweller(no offence meant) about what will and won't work. Because... it's in their business interests to know a thing or two based on actual empirical knowledge rather than guess-work.

I think that the reason that industry-insiders don't come out and refute some of these claims directly is because they're terrified of bad press. Bad press in the internet age is truly menacing, so don't tell people what they don't wanna hear.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

It's been said, but i'll say it anyway.

Why stop there, Chris Suellentrop? Why stop there? I'm sure Joel is straight, so why couldn't he be a gay leading character? He's white, we have a whole rainbow to throw in the place instead of just white. He uses combat, and it's really tiring to see every character solve the game with voice... he could be the first pacifist protagonist.

Coming from an underrepresented background of gaming leads... yeah, I get it. White guy is tiring. But you can't just go to the biggest game of the year and get out your soapbox because you lose all credibility. Is the Combat Tight? Is the Story Good? Are the characters believable? The sound and art design good? No major bugs or issues? If it's an enjoyable experience, you come off looking like a real tool, Chris. Just like you needed something to complain about, even if you bring up a good topic.

Here's how bad it is, I even thought for a second that hey, this might just be an editorial. In case I have nothing to talk about. But it isn't. This is the name of the 'review' right under it's label of being a video game review

"VIDEO GAME REVIEW
In the Same Boat, but Not Equals
In the Video Game The Last of Us, Survival Favors the Man"

... Where the FUCK does that talk about if the game is worth buying? If it's a technical mess or not. Yahtzee doesn't write for the NYT, and yeah, he pokes fun at bad games... But he at least says why. Looking through Chris's review, he says things like "You can see why people really like the game. The animation is nearly photorealistic. The characters? eyes are full of life and emotion, with none of the vacancy gamers so often confront. Their eyes give Joel and Ellie, the two characters that the player spends the most time with, a weight and a reality that surpass all other video game characters." and then just goes back on his soapbox to almost say 'See, I did play the game. And would have enjoyed it if I didn't have an opinion to harp on'

I'm sorry, is a game review not supposed to spend some time to tell how the game technically feels? the pros and cons? The berth of the matter, not just the thing you happened to dislike about it. It's not a critique, this is a review. People want to read this to see if they want to play the game, if it works and if they might want to spend their money to play it. Not if Chris Suellentrop was ok with the choice of characters.

I'm freaking tired of always being a white guy in games, but this article enrages me. It's not a review, it's an article. It's an opinion piece. He took time away from the reader and the service he was supposed to provide to tell people how they should think, not if they should play the game.

If this same piece came right after he actually reviewed the game, he would have had all my support. But do the job you're paid for first. It's truly comparable if you tune into your favorite gadget reviewer on CNET, anxious to learn about that new tech for apple, and the reviewer went on long detail how it's unsettling how Apple is taking over the market place. The product is good, but wouldn't you want to see more divserity in the products you can buy? And then he ends it. Not really talking about the functions, not going over battery life or the material it's made of. The review was to tell you that there are too many apple products. That's just What Chris Did Now.

Don't expect people to take you seriously as a reviewer is you spend our time fapping about with your opinion and then not take the time to even try to explain why the game can be considered good or even give a guise of a review. Separate your opinion and the review so we can completely focus on the two. It makes both even stronger.