The North/South divide?

[Flac00]

hello! i'm a southerner in England, and recently one of my best mates (from yorkshire) has had a bit of stick because she is friends with " a southern ponce" i'm from a middle class family, and i'm wondering....What is this divide? and what are you opinions on it? i think it may also reach to america, but with superiority feelings reversed?

Nope, both sides of the Mason-Dixon line (the imaginary line that separates North from South) think they are better than the other. Us yanks in the north think we are better than the south because we are smarter, less "rednecky", and are not bigots. The southys think they are better than northerners because they aren't arrogant, represent "true America", are more polite, have morals.
If you can't tell from reading it, I have a little bias. To be honest, the South has got a lot of very vocal, very stupid, people. So they have a bad reputation for that. Not to mention the whole issue of civil rights and the KKK, kind-of a bad stain on their history. Otherwise, the differences are purely on the surface.

 

[Macgyvercas]

In America prior to the Civil War, the states that allowed slvery were in the South, and the states that outlawed slavery were in the North. The dividing live was called the Mason-Dixen line, and was on the Maryland-Pennsylvania boarder. that's really the only divide that I can think of for my country. And I also know that even though the Civil War ended in 1865, it's still of a hot button issue in the South. Remember General Sherman? Yeah, don't mention him south of Pennsylvania unless you feel like getting yelled at. Georgia is still particularly pissed at him.

The north didnt outlaw slavery until January of 1865 (and even then it only got out of Congress), and wasnt actually adopted till December. The emancipation proclamation said that slavery was illegal in all former territories of the Union (and I think anyhwere outside the union, so technically if you had slavery in China at the time you were disobeying, but I could be wrong on that), but still had slavery legal in the North. So by the time it all came into law, the war was over.

Touche, but the point is, most Northerns didn't keep slaves and looked down on the practice, so even though it wasn't technically outlawed de jure, is was de facto.

 

[Flac00]

In America prior to the Civil War, the states that allowed slvery were in the South, and the states that outlawed slavery were in the North. The dividing live was called the Mason-Dixen line, and was on the Maryland-Pennsylvania boarder. that's really the only divide that I can think of for my country. And I also know that even though the Civil War ended in 1865, it's still of a hot button issue in the South. Remember General Sherman? Yeah, don't mention him south of Pennsylvania unless you feel like getting yelled at. Georgia is still particularly pissed at him.

The north didnt outlaw slavery until January of 1865 (and even then it only got out of Congress), and wasnt actually adopted till December. The emancipation proclamation said that slavery was illegal in all former territories of the Union (and I think anyhwere outside the union, so technically if you had slavery in China at the time you were disobeying, but I could be wrong on that), but still had slavery legal in the North. So by the time it all came into law, the war was over.

The difference was that the North had almost no slavery to begin with. Therefor they had no qualms wether it took a bit of time to outlaw it. The reason the Emancipation Proclamation only outlawed slavery in the south was because the border states still had slavery as a part of their economy so they would have rebelled as well had it been outlawed there as well. Slavery was certainly one of the important causes for the war. It might not have been the intention of the North to outlaw it soon, but the South was paranoid they would, so they rebelled.

 

[Hazy992]

The south seems to get preferential treatment over the north from the government. Plus a lot of us northeners see you guys as ponces and toffs, and a lot of you guys see us as bunch of scraggs that all live in mining towns

BTW I in fact don't own a kestrel.

 

[Malty Milk Whistle]

The south seems to get preferential treatment over the north from the government. Plus a lot of us northeners see you guys as ponces and toffs, and a lot of you guys see us as bunch of scraggs that all live in mining towns

BTW I in fact don't own a kestrel.

reference to a epic book. i love you. but OT, most southerners are not aware of this...and i like lots of northern people, even if your accent is slightly funny, but ours is just as stupid to your ears, i suppose

 

[emeraldrafael]

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That still doesnt excuse the north. The "border" states that allied themselves with the north were for all intensive purposes northern states, and if slavery was practiced heavily there, it still counted to the north.

There's no difference in it at all, the north just wanted to ride a moral high horse so the rest of the world would look favorably on them since slavery was becoming something you didnt want to do in "developed" nations of the time, like Britain (who had outlawed slavery before the US did, yet strangely still supported the South and just waited for a chance to jump in that wouldnt look like they were backing slavery).

And no, slavery itself was not the issue, at least not totally. It came down to commerce at most, and it came down to seeds that had been sewn WAY back when the colonies were still being founded. While slavery was an issue that lincoln had heavy issues against slavery and equal rights personally, but those sentiments by and large were not shared by his fellow countrymen of the North, and especially not the south. to the North, this was a war to bring back the union to what it once was and to show solidarity as a young nation. to the south, it was a war to finally be seen just as good as the union and finally maybe be an equal.

in fact, some of the higher confederate figures, like General lee, were more "northern" in their thinking then the north themselves but they instead wanted to conitnue to believe in a confederate rather than a union that was stepping on them and hurting their economy (and not through trying to be rid of slavery) or rights as states.

Im not saying its right by any means, and Im not saying the south should have been let go and divided from, just the north wasnt totally innocent and moral like it likes to paint itself to be during the civil war and that the civil war wasnt even about slavery at heart until much later int he war (and even then, it was only against the south until the 13th amendment).

 

[Philol]

Ah the North/South divide, it's basically just based around stereotypes, for example southerners are supposedly all high class ponces who don't have time for lower class common northerners, I jest of course as its ridiculous, funny, but ridiculous.

 

[Spacewolf]

Hmmm. This doesn't happen in Scotland. Our hatred is solely channelled towards the English...
Which, I suppose technically, is North and South..


(I say this in jest of course.)

not exactly true the highlanders and the lowlanders have quite a dislike for each other from what ive seen

 

[deehadley]

I seem to remember seeing some terrible local TV program (it had Chris Packham so was on meridian) which had a diagram of how far the ice age spread and it was pretty much the north/south dividing line, although I am completely unable to find any reference to this outside my mind and it's probably unrelated to all of the discussion above.

 

[Purple Dragon]

it was always there but margaret thatcher managed to make it more prominent by rendering all the northeners unemployed by closing the industry there, which was the main source of employment

 

[ConstantErasing]

In America most of the divide comes from racism, civil war, and improper use of the English language. There is also some diversity issues with the south being mostly (from my understanding) white protestants while the north has some more diversity. As to class I am not sure but from my limited understanding the north is more industrialized while the south tends to be more rural so there might be some what of a wealth discrepancy there especially since southern land owners no longer have large amounts of slaves to earn easy money for them.

 

[Timmons]

in america the north is like the south of england and vice versa.
i'm a proper southern british ponce!

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Hmmm. This doesn't happen in Scotland. Our hatred is solely channelled towards the English...
Which, I suppose technically, is North and South..


(I say this in jest of course.)

isn't that because of the English being...well, the English (meaning taking over places *cough* China, Africa, India *cough*)

 

[lRookiel]

Well southeners are all perceived as "Posh types" by the northeners whereas the northeners are perceived as "Rough types" by the southeners, its kind of like a feud or something..

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

hello! i'm a southerner in England, and recently one of my best mates (from yorkshire) has had a bit of stick because she is friends with " a southern ponce" i'm from a middle class family, and i'm wondering....What is this divide? and what are you opinions on it? i think it may also reach to america, but with superiority feelings reversed?

I think this happens across the world. It happens in America, because you will still see people have confederate flags and they call the civil war, the "war of northern aggression".

I talked to a guy from Germany before and he was here with another international student from Germany, except he was from Northern Germany and She was from Southern Germany. He said that he couldn't understand her German (even though both people were born and raised there) and that he had to communicate with her in English and how he thought most Southern Germans were idiots.

I've also talked to people form (PRC)China who were from the north and they thought people from the southern part of China (the Canton region) were stupid, farmers with a dumb language.

This reminds me of this video (NSFW):

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

Well that's because you Southerner are all a bunch of racist hicks, with your banjos, and your KKK, and your 'country music', and your-

Wait. Hold on... oooooohhhhh! Wrong North-South divide. You're all a bunch of limeys to me.

In all seriousness though, it probably has it's roots in an economic situation. Sounds like the South is more well-to-do then the North, so that's probably part of it. And the difference in average economic situations between Southerners and Northerners probably results in somewhat different cultures, both of which feel the other is inferior; or at least a little bit. It's similar to the North-South divide here in the States. The more industrialize North didn't gain the best opinion amongst the more agricultural South.

 

[Gizmo1990]

I'm a northern gal, I used to live about a hour from Newcastle and 45mins from Durham. Closest 'town' was Darlington. I have only been south once and that was to London, I hated it but mainly because I hate big towns/cities I found people not as helpful or polite was up here in the north. I currently live in a town called Huddersfield now, gosh that yorkshire accent is now starting to creep into my north eastern one.

Anyways the north/south divide is silly we all live in the same country but some people will argue over anything.

I have never really come across the north/south divide but I have found that people from the north are more friendly. I have lived in a small town my whole life and I hate big citys and try to avoid them but I was in newcastle a few years ago and I got lost. Asked a few people for directions and they were nice and helped me out (even if it did take me a few seconds to figuer out what they said accent made it a bit difficult at first ). I was in London last month asked for directions the guy looked at me as if I had just kicked him in the balls. Talking to strangers or asking for directions is just not done in the south. Is like the law or something.

 

[Aidinthel]

intensive purposes

You mean "intents and purposes". Sorry, but that really bothers me.

While I have your attention I'd like to point out that most Northern states had already outlawed slavery before the Federal government did. This was not so much due to altruism on their part as it was the idea that power corrupts and an economic system that gives people total power over the lives of other humans (even "inferior" ones) would inevitably lead to a corrupt society. In fact, before the rise of cotton plantations this was a view shared by most American intellectuals, even the slave-owning ones, who recognized slavery as a problem but argued that it should be allowed to die on it's own.

Also, I believe the exact words of the Emancipation Proclamation were something along the lines that slavery was outlawed in all territories currently in rebellion. So it didn't try to apply to the rest of the world because that would be silly, but yeah it really was more a symbolic resolution than a law. Still, it served the very important function of keeping Europeans out of the conflict.

Britain passively supported the Confederacy throughout the war because they liked to buy Southern cotton to feed the large British textile industry (remember the Industrial Revolution is in full swing by this time) but it was politically impossible for them to take direct action once Lincoln made the war about slavery.

 

[hutchy27]

Damn you bloody southern fairies ! I joke
We have our greg's cheese and onion pasties and our geordie accents.
You closed most of your roads after a bit of light snow, while us northerners battle the storms as we traveled to get ourselves a nice pastie.

I'm from the North-east of England.
But in the North we see Southerners (mainly Londoners to be honest) as posh smug people and violent gang members.
We didn't have any riots up here as well so don't class us as violent thugs!

 

[kromify]

This is really fascinating. As a history nerd, I'd love to learn more about why the UK is set up like this. Does it have to do with the North's proximity to Scotland? I've been told that I would be looked down upon in England because I have red hair, due to it being "Scottish looking" despite the fact that I have absolutely no Scottish lineage.

maybe up north they would, crazy backward people that they are ;-D

Scot-, Irish- and Welsh-folk all are likely to have red hair. Red-heads sometimes are found to be less attractive but it's not much to do with "Scottishness." In the northern climes with not much sun there is no selection for dark skin and hair to protect us, so paler complexions can just drift into the population. Because red is rare it can be considered attractive (although mostly on females) which would begin selecting for that gene.

our geordie accents.

damn northie! *shakes fist* ;-)