The Old Republic

[KeyMaster45]

The moral choice system is one I have something of a beef with in ToR. It doesn't reward you for existing in a moral grey area like a normal, sane person. It instead rewards you for being either cartoonishly evil or good to the point of naive ignorance. The companions don't help with that either. The Sith Inquisitor's first companion, Khem, is hard line evil and the only way to gain rep with him in conversations is by always picking the most ruthless, dickish option available. Yeah I could easily just shower him with gifts to make him like me more but that almost makes the whole system pointless. They may as well have not included the rep with companions at all.

Basically I don't feel like I can play my character the way I want to without the game penalizing me. The conversations my character has are more like games of figuring out which dialogue choice will net me the most gain in character progression and which ones will penalize me because I didn't pick what the devs thought my character should have said.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Besides, tracking and killing is an assassin's line of work; not a Bounty Hunter.

Aren't Star Wars "Bounty Hunters" more akin to assassins anyway?

"He's no good to me dead" - Boba Fett Ep5, quoting a Mandalorian maxim on bounties.

 

[RJ 17]

That's really the problem with all games that have a built in moral system. You're either setting up orphanages for children that were born on fire and have never even seen a cookie or you're going around robbing said enflamed orphans and pushing people in wheelchairs down long flights of stairs. There's no real "moral problem" as, from the onset, when making a new ccharacter you know "Alright, I'm gonna be a goody-goody this playthrough" or "You know what? I REALLY do enjoy throwing those old people down the stairs..."

Dark side responses seem to be about 20% more fun than light side ones. Although I have a rule that if an npc makes me laugh then they get to live.

I will agree with that, "evil" responses are much more humorous because, tying into what I mentioned above, they're often just over-the-top grotesquely evil. This was especially true in Knights of the Old Republic and its sequel.

I remember the quest where you're on Dantooine trying to become a "jedi", there's those two farmers who are quarreling and you have to resolve it. I picked the good responses all the way through, but at the very end, had my character say "You know, I actually saw so-and-so shoot your son..." So Farmer 1 got enraged and shot Farmer 2's daughter, Farmer 2 kills Farmer 1's son, the guard droids both farmers have then killed both the farmers, leaving EVERYONE involved dead and giving me +20 Dark Side. Ohhhh you should have heard the maniacal laugh I let loose after pulling that off.

 

[rofltehcat]

Wait... there really are no "find and protect my husband, then kill that crime lord" and no "smuggle this medicine to the orphanage on planet XYZ" quests? Both are concepts that can easily work as both good (do the job) and evil (find the husband, kill him for the crime lord or rat him out to the crime lord / sell the medicine to drug dealers or so) and could yield the same amount of credits etc... Maybe you get an item (her ring, or a Star Wars collectible from one of the kids, that you can sell to break even with the bad ending).

If this isn't the case, this is bad design imo.
Just like the example in the comic could have had a very different light side solution. Take the mutant kittens to a researcher who is working on curing this kind of stuff. Sure, he might kill a few of them in the process but with the kittens he might finally find a cure and save many many (kitten) lives! You'd still have to smuggle because of course they won't let you take this forbidden cargo to him that easily.

 

[Bluecho]

What a lot of people, especially many in charge of Star Wars media, don't seem to understand about the force is that the Light/Dark sides of the force do not necessarily correspond with Good and Evil. A more apt comparison would be Stoic vs Passionate. Jedi traditionally emphasis detachment from worldly concerns, whereas the Sith emphasis submitting to their emotions.

A truely in-between person would be one who is free to feel anything, but isn't mastered by them.

 

[roastbeefy]

This is why I stopped caring about Light vs Dark while leveling and started playing my characters based on what I think they would actually do. My Jedi is an overconfident, arrogant person who takes great pride in his abilities. He won't leave a serious threat to the order or republic alive, but he also doesn't just mindlessly slaughter for fun. He's willing to help those in need, but is more then happy to accept rewards for his work, even if he doesn't demand them. So far he's level 25 and jumps back and forth on the line of Light 1. It makes the game a lot more interesting, and adds a huge amount of depth and personal interest to my char rather then just, oh I'm a Jedi, lets hit light for everything. And once I'm 50, and all the story is done, I can just farm all the way light or dark for gear requirements running flashpoints.

Yeah, I'm the same way. My Sith sometimes sympathizes with people who are being victimized because he used to be a slave, but he's still hateful, greedy, and selfish. I ended up turning off the light/dark side indicator because I didn't want points do have anything to do with my character's decisions. Really wish Bioware had done away with the light and dark side points system entirely, sort of like the way it is in Dragon Age. I especially don't like how it's required to use some gear.

 

[Moriarty]

Yeah, pretty much agree.

My Smuggler is a decent guy, but dude's got to get paid. My things don't buy themselves, after all.

Agent does whatever is good for the Empire. Well, this is until after Chapter 1, where he learned things, now he's basically two-face. Every moral choice boils down to a coin-toss.

He was pretty shaken up at the revelation.

wait what? I stopped playing my agent somewhere around lv 12 because I didn't want to be some assholes siths subordinate for the entire game, does the whole slimy politics stuff end at some point?

 

[Irridium]

Yeah, pretty much agree.

My Smuggler is a decent guy, but dude's got to get paid. My things don't buy themselves, after all.

Agent does whatever is good for the Empire. Well, this is until after Chapter 1, where he learned things, now he's basically two-face. Every moral choice boils down to a coin-toss.

He was pretty shaken up at the revelation.

wait what? I stopped playing my agent somewhere around lv 12 because I didn't want to be some assholes siths subordinate for the entire game, does the whole slimy politics stuff end at some point?

Yes. You stop doing his bidding right before you leave Dromund Kass.

 

[Something Amyss]

In the words of Darth Vader when talking to the bounty hunters "You are free to use any methods necessary but I want them alive - no disintegrations! "

But see, that just seems to prove my point. They had to be explicitly told "No disintegrations."

"He's no good to me dead" - Boba Fett Ep5, quoting a Mandalorian maxim on bounties.

Again, after the bounty hunters were specifically told to bring 'em in alive.

Inference from Han's prior mentions of the price on his head don't seem to indicate this is standard practice, either.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

In the words of Darth Vader when talking to the bounty hunters "You are free to use any methods necessary but I want them alive - no disintegrations! "

But see, that just seems to prove my point. They had to be explicitly told "No disintegrations."

"He's no good to me dead" - Boba Fett Ep5, quoting a Mandalorian maxim on bounties.

Again, after the bounty hunters were specifically told to bring 'em in alive.

Inference from Han's prior mentions of the price on his head don't seem to indicate this is standard practice, either.

Another interesting Mando maxim:
"Alive? Alive costs more."
Thus successful bounty hunters attempt to bring em in alive. Unless they're Jedi/Sith, then just kill them all.

 

[ChildishLegacy]

I'm a sith warrior with 2 red lightsabers.
I'm not being nice for anybody, who plays a sith with red lightsabers to be nice? I want to fuck people over all the way to the top

 

[Double A]

Hey, BioWare, here's an idea for a Light Side smuggler quest that makes money.

Have the smuggler smuggle weapons to some resistance fighters in a Sith sector.

 

[Waaghpowa]

wait what? I stopped playing my agent somewhere around lv 12 because I didn't want to be some assholes siths subordinate for the entire game, does the whole slimy politics stuff end at some point?

I have an Imperial Agent Sniper at 50, at the start you work for the Sith. Much later, things change. That's all I'm going to say without ruining it for you. Unless you WANT to know. My characters name is perfect for a sniper too. Not many people survive with their heads intact when Leeharvey Oswald is on the job :O

 

[Moriarty]

snip

snip

welp and now I have to replay another starting area. Really liked the sniper class, but was really turned off by the story after they chained me with the alien-morrigan.


The game is really hit and miss with it's characters, you're not really free to play how you want, you just got to choose between two different railroads. At least a new agent isn't as bad as a new trooper, I really started to hate my trooper because the light side wouldn't shut up about his goddamn duty and the evil side seemed to confuse being evil with being an asshole.

 

[Wolfbane_Daoine]

welp and now I have to replay another starting area. Really liked the sniper class, but was really turned off by the story after they chained me with the alien-morrigan.


The game is really hit and miss with it's characters, you're not really free to play how you want, you just got to choose between two different railroads. At least a new agent isn't as bad as a new trooper, I really started to hate my trooper because the light side wouldn't shut up about his goddamn duty and the evil side seemed to confuse being evil with being an asshole.

Kaliyo really does come across at times like a Morrigan-esqe charecter, but I think it fits her actually. She's complicated, not easy to pin down even if you think you know what she's all about. Dark hearted, ruthless, and you get the sense she'll stab you in the back if you let your guard down around her. I couldn't be happier with her or the Imperial Agents' storyline. Much, much better then that silly, flighty Bounty Hunter stuff. ^_^

 

[WolfThomas]

What a lot of people, especially many in charge of Star Wars media, don't seem to understand about the force is that the Light/Dark sides of the force do not necessarily correspond with Good and Evil. A more apt comparison would be Stoic vs Passionate. Jedi traditionally emphasis detachment from worldly concerns, whereas the Sith emphasis submitting to their emotions.

A truely in-between person would be one who is free to feel anything, but isn't mastered by them.

Unfortunately this isn't canon. Though it's far more interesting and enjoyable. George Lucas has basically word of god-ed that Dark side = evil all the time and that bringing balance to the force was getting rid of the Dark side elements. But I agree the idea of a Sith being someone who lets their emotions rule them both postive and negative is a better concept.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

You work for the sith and you play a light side Bounty Hunter? What is wrong with you? My bounty hunter has killed every single person he has met, even the ones that technically had nothing to do with the mission.

 

[immortalfrieza]

What a lot of people, especially many in charge of Star Wars media, don't seem to understand about the force is that the Light/Dark sides of the force do not necessarily correspond with Good and Evil. A more apt comparison would be Stoic vs Passionate. Jedi traditionally emphasis detachment from worldly concerns, whereas the Sith emphasis submitting to their emotions.

A truely in-between person would be one who is free to feel anything, but isn't mastered by them.

Unfortunately this isn't canon. Though it's far more interesting and enjoyable. George Lucas has basically word of god-ed that Dark side = evil all the time and that bringing balance to the force was getting rid of the Dark side elements. But I agree the idea of a Sith being someone who lets their emotions rule them both postive and negative is a better concept.

I don't think old Georgie has any idea how real people function, otherwise he would have made the Star Wars universe a much more morally ambiguous place.

 

[Deviluk]

This is why I stopped caring about Light vs Dark while leveling and started playing my characters based on what I think they would actually do. My Jedi is an overconfident, arrogant person who takes great pride in his abilities. He won't leave a serious threat to the order or republic alive, but he also doesn't just mindlessly slaughter for fun. He's willing to help those in need, but is more then happy to accept rewards for his work, even if he doesn't demand them. So far he's level 25 and jumps back and forth on the line of Light 1. It makes the game a lot more interesting, and adds a huge amount of depth and personal interest to my char rather then just, oh I'm a Jedi, lets hit light for everything. And once I'm 50, and all the story is done, I can just farm all the way light or dark for gear requirements running flashpoints.

This, except I have a Sith who isn't necessarily blood thirsty, but when screwed around with (normally by Hutts and Moffs) he can whip out his lightsaber, and gut them with it. Basically I play my Sith like most play bounty hunter.

 

[Wuggy]

Question: Why do you treat it as a binary choice then? Nothing is actually.. you know, forcing you to pick light side choices only. There is little necessity to be "full-dark" or "full-light" apart from few trinkets and vanity stuff, and if you do want those, you can just get Diplomacy and force your meter by doing only missions on one side.